Population wise? It's growing faster, and it seems to me way more undeveloped land, especially near downtown and way better governance.

Is that just a crazy thought?

I think they are for all intents the same size by area. Dallas has much more multi family. You'd need a ton of that to make up the ground.

Internet seems to indicate Dallas has 1000 people more per sq mile

Ft Worth isn't landlocked like dallas is so from that there has been a long thought that ft worth would grow larger than dallas.

However, with the changes to the annexation laws, it may slow ft worths growth probability. Also all the gas wells developed west and northwest of town has hampered the long term prospects for future roadway networks, especially freeways necessary to support the growth.

Before even getting into corporate relocations/expansions in each county in the last 10 years..

Consider that, to scale, If you look at them side by side, loop 820 = the NW highway /12 loop..... so Saginaw/NRH etc = inside 635/south of Addison on the other side. FWs boundary lines don't correlate with 820 as much as Dallas' do 635...but still

the very easy answer is "no".... but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Dallas will also never be bigger than Houston either; and technically it's smaller than SA. Meh

Sumlins Pool Guy said:

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I had kinda gotten the impression that Ft Worth was feeling the pain from the all the oil and gas jobs departing ?

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You would think so, but I mean South 7th st. area is seemingly booming still.

20 years ago there was basically sundance square, which was nothing more than a movie theater and some fry joints as far as development, and then the stockyards which was somewhere you took your brother's kids.

There is a crap ton more to do and the list is growing, wouldn't be shocked to see it have pull from California and Austin for job growth in some non O&G sectors.

Sumlins Pool Guy said:

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I had kinda gotten the impression that Ft Worth was feeling the pain from the all the oil and gas jobs departing ?

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Downtown leasing felt that pain, but the city as a whole has not.

Oil and gas is where most of the big money men in this town hit their payday, but aviation (commercial and military) as well as moving into data and distribution (Amazon, Facebook, etc...) is what is doing a lot of the employing.

Ft. Worth is only growing faster by percentage. Dallas is still geowing faster than Ft. Worth in raw numbers.

Ft. Worth grew at a ~12% rate last year, while Dallas grew at ~8%.

But Dallas has ~1.3 million residents to Ft. Worth's ~800k.

8% of 1.3 million = 104,000 new residents fir Dallas
12% of 800k = 96,000 new residents for Ft. Worth

A lot of the growth is several miles north of 820, which while technically is still part of the city, it might as well just be part of a generic suburb.

Oops wrong thread

Haltom City and Watagua gonna have a lot to say about this.

My Dad Earl said:

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YouBet said:

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Frankly, I don't think this is even a relevant thought. No offense. To me, DFW is one big city of 7M+ people. There is literally zero geographic separation in DFW so when I go to Ft. Worth I'm not really going to another city; I'm just going to the west side of DFW.

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From us folks here in FW

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Facts bro.

YouBet said:

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Frankly, I don't think this is even a relevant thought. No offense. To me, DFW is one big city of 7M+ people. There is literally zero geographic separation in DFW so when I go to Ft. Worth I'm not really going to another city; I'm just going to the west side of DFW.

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It's impossible to use logic to argue against this, as all of the city limit lines are really just a distinction without a difference (ie: logical fallacy).

However: you'll never change anyone's emotions on this.

Agnzona said:

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Population wise? It's growing faster, and it seems to me way more undeveloped land, especially near downtown and way better governance.

Is that just a crazy thought?

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Ft Worth/Tarrant County job market would have to diversify for that to happen.

Most of the high paying white collar jobs are in Dallas/Irving/Plano/Richardson.

Ft Worth at some point could grow larger than Dallas, but we will all be dead if/when that happens.

The biggest reason FT Worth does not get more nationwide recognition (for a city its size) is that with the exception of the Texas Rangers all their hometown sports teams are all teams named after Dallas.

Most of my coworkers/Colleagues (most of whom do not live in Texas) view Ft Worth as just a separate part of Dallas.

A lot of them are surprised when I tell them FT Worth has its own downtown, cultural centers....etc
People tend to associate a region with its sports team.


Ft Lauderdale, Tacoma, and St Paul are all in the same boat as Ft Worth. The lesser city in the shadow of a major city whose residents all root for the same teams.

Cities like Baltimore, Oakland have separate identities from the larger city/well known city(DC, San Francisco) they are attached to because they have their own sports teams.

I think Ft Worth missed a huge opportunity. The New Rangers stadium would have kicked ass in downtown Ft Worth.
Especially if Dallas county folks could take the TRE to the game, like FT Worth residents can for Stars and Mavs game.

Yeah hard pass on being held hostage by a sports team tons of other cities are.

Kellso said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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Yeah hard pass on being held hostage by a sports team tons of other cities are.

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To each his own.

But IMO a retractable roof stadium in Sundance Square would have been a complete game changer for the city of FT Worth.

Just being shown on TV increases the interest of the casual man who might not ever venture to downtown FT Worth, but will go there to catch a baseball game.

I drove by the new Rangers stadium last week, and Im sure it will be fantastic......but its still in Arlington surrounded by parking lots.

A new Rangers stadium in Deep Ellum, the Cedars, or Sundance Square would be 10x cooler than the current location.

Minneapolis/St Paul are pretty similar to Dallas and Fort Worth.
The Vikings, Twins and Timberwolves all play in downtown Minneapolis, while the hockey and soccer team play in St Paul.

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Yep, downtown stadiums drive lots of downtown business. Especially baseball. Easy to leave work an hour early, eat dinner in the downtown and catch an evening game. Downtown Dallas is mostly a ghost town after 6pm. Something to keep people around into the evening hours would do wonders for downtown restaurants.

John Francis Donaghy said:

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Kellso said:

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Proposition Joe said:

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Yeah hard pass on being held hostage by a sports team tons of other cities are.

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To each his own.

But IMO a retractable roof stadium in Sundance Square would have been a complete game changer for the city of FT Worth.

Just being shown on TV increases the interest of the casual man who might not ever venture to downtown FT Worth, but will go there to catch a baseball game.

I drove by the new Rangers stadium last week, and Im sure it will be fantastic......but its still in Arlington surrounded by parking lots.

A new Rangers stadium in Deep Ellum, the Cedars, or Sundance Square would be 10x cooler than the current location.

Minneapolis/St Paul are pretty similar to Dallas and Fort Worth.
The Vikings, Twins and Timberwolves all play in downtown Minneapolis, while the hockey and soccer team play in St Paul.

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Yep, downtown stadiums drive lots of downtown business. Especially baseball. Easy to leave work an hour early, eat dinner in the downtown and catch an evening game. Downtown Dallas is mostly a ghost town after 6pm. Something to keep people around into the evening hours would do wonders for downtown restaurants.

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Meanwhile, we have acres of wasted space at Fair Park.

Ft. Worth didn't miss any opportunity. The Rangers were not shopping for a new stadium and looking at bids from anywhere....

The city of Arlington came to the Rangers and said here is a bunch of cash ($500M for their half) build a new stadium right here. They did not have to go through any politics or bidding or anything it was handed to them on a platter.

Arlington was on pace to pay off the bonds on the Cowboys stadium 14 years early (in 2020) and refinanced and basically rolled that into financing for this new stadium. They did get the city to vote on doing this financing deal since it altered the original deal, but it wasn't costing them anything really. The hotel and car rental taxes were just continued to pay off this new stadium deal. And with interest rates at all time lows it just made a lot of sense financially.

Anyway neither here nor there, but there was never any period where the Rangers opened it up to other cities to get involved. Arlington moved pre-emptively and got it done.

Lots of single family and multifamily being built in northern Fort Worth. The population has to be booming and I don't see how Dallas could be keeping pace with limited space available. Fort Worth has tens of thousands of undeveloped acres to its north and west.

aggie appraiser said:

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Lots of single family and multifamily being built in northern Fort Worth. The population has to be booming and I don't see how Dallas could be keeping pace with limited space available. Fort Worth has tens of thousands of undeveloped acres to its north and west.

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Dallas is actually growing by more people per year tham Ft. Worth. And it's all density growth. Downtown and surrounding neighborhoods like Uptown, Harwood, Deep Ellum, Oak Lawn, and the Design District are booming with dense mid-rise and high-rise residential growth.

Ft. Worth has lots of room to grow out into suburbia, but doesn't have the kind concentrated urban residential centers that Dallas is developing.

FW out grew DAL in the last decade, if that pace continues, it is just math that FW catches up at some point.

I found this article from 2015.

"Stampede of People
Among Texas' five biggest cities, Fort Worth is poised to witness the most explosive population growth in the next 25 years. The Texas Water Development Board's projections indicate Cowtown's headcount will approach 1.5 million in 2040. Translation: a population surge of nearly 84 percent from 2014 to 2040.
That's a huge leap for a city that had just 447,619 residents in 1990.
David Berzina, executive vice president of economic development for the Fort Worth Chamber of Commerce, says that based on growth trends over the past eight years, the city's population should hit the 1 million mark by 2025. Actually, that's a conservative estimate. It's more likely that Fort Worth will reach the 1 million milestone in 2021, Berzina says."

This article show For Worth almost matching Dallas by 2040. So I am starting to think it is only when not if.

https://www.lawnstarter.com/blog/texas/austin-tx/growth-projections-for-biggest-cities-in-texas/

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So I am starting to think it is only when not if.

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They wont unless they seriously pick up on high density housing.

That will be a natural occurrence resulting from the rapid growth

Dallas is land locked so it's just a matter of time, it's the same reason that San Antonio has more people than Dallas and Austin probably will as well sooner than later.

In other words, around 2040 all the people that have historically trashed Dallas because it's too big and doesn't have that hometown feel and culture like Ft. Worth...will be moving to Dallas because Ft. Worth is too damn big.

My how the tables have turned...

I really hope Ft Worth keeps its feel. It always feels more relaxed and comfortable with itself. I always feel like Dallas is trying to compensate for something and does it by being ultra modern.

YouBet said:

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In other words, around 2040 all the people that have historically trashed Dallas because it's too big and doesn't have that hometown feel and culture like Ft. Worth...will be moving to Dallas because Ft. Worth is too damn big.

My how the tables have turned...

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Or to paraphrase Yogi Berra, nobody goes there anymore it is too crowded!

Not talking about the look. Talking about the feel. Dallas has always felt like it is trying really hard to be something more along the lines of LA. It is just off putting to me. A lot of long time residents of the area I know place the change in mindset to around the time of Kennedy getting shot.

Of course this is all opinion. ymmv