Why won't my beloved HEB build in the Metroplex? I can't stand shopping at Kroger. Kroger sucks. Does anyone know any legitimate reasons HEB hasn't built up here. I've heard a few rumors of deals between cities/grocers, but I'm not sure if they're true or not.

BernArnold said:

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They have 5 Central Markets (in Dallas, Plano, Ft. Worth, Southlake) and plans for 2 more in Dallas at Midway/NW Hwy and Mckinney/Lemmon intersections. they also just bought some land in a development in the Bishop Arts area but it is not yet being developed.

But no plans for regular HEBs.

My understanding is they consider the market in DFW to be oversaturated (with regular grocery stores) and so they are only going with the Central Markets in targeted wealthy/trendy neighborhoods as a differentiator.

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Yep. Grocery stores are like Starbucks here. By the time I left east Dallas two years ago there were 7-8 grocery stores within a 2 mile radius.

HEB can make way better margins with Central market with all of the money here and demand for that concept.

Although there is a void in my part of East Dallas right now.

NW Hwy and Plano Rd. there is a Kroger that is super crowded horrible parking and (because it is near a couple of retirement communities) navigating the aisles is often an obstacle course of scooters, walkers, and other just really really slow people.

The other nearby grocery (Sun Fresh) at NW Hwy and Ferndale closed 2 years ago - sold to HEB actually as part of 6 places they bought (2 being developed into Central Markets)....but they have no plans for that location and have not sold it either.

There are no other groceries in about a 4 mile radius from there. Closest are:

Buckner/Garland Rd. - Albertsons
NW Hwy across LBJ a ways there is both a Walmart (at Saturn) and a Tom Thumb (at Centerville)
NW Hwy the other way there is a Walmart past Skillman
Skillman and Abrams there is a Super Target
way over across the lake at Mockingbird and Abrams is a Tom Thumb
way up at Forest and Royal is another Tom Thumb

It's a real dead zone. And I hate both Walmart and Target anyway.

Hmm. We were down in Lakewood. When I first moved there we had a disgusting Minyards (which is now Whole Foods),Tom Thumb and Albertsons on Mockingbird, and Mexican markets out the wazoo.

By the time we left two years ago there were 4 new organic grocers (including that Whole Foods) that had opened.

We are getting one of those new Central Markets at NW Hwy and Midway. Pretty pumped about that.

HEB would absolutely murder the craptastic Kroger / Tom Thumb "market"....what's under rated is that if you live near downtown dallas , the waxahaxhie HEB is only 30 mins away! Will stop by on a Sunday returning from points south if the schedule allows and a big grocery trip is needed ... highly worth it, the difference between it and even a "good" Kroger is vast

TexasAggie008 said:

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HEB would absolutely murder the craptastic Kroger / Tom Thumb "market"....what's under rated is that if you live near downtown dallas , the waxahaxhie HEB is only 30 mins away! Will stop by on a Sunday returning from points south if the schedule allows and a big grocery trip is needed ... highly worth it, the difference between it and even a "good" Kroger is vast

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One area that Tom Thumb is killing it though is their wine selection. It's incredible for a grocery store and the pricing is fantastic.

Grew up in Dallas so my exposure to HEB is limited to Central Market, the old and new heb on holleman, and the heb in bryan

heb doesnt seem any different than the grocery stores here. The Tom Thumb/Kroger/Albertsons in the poor neighborhoods are terrible while the expensive areas are nice.

If I need the most generic of items I go to the albertsons on garland and buckner, but half of that neighborhood sucks and the parking lot is trashy so I dont mind driving over to CM. That Tom Thumb on gaston is a joke, they have nothing.

We have both Kroger and HEB in Burleson. We always have liked the Kroger much better.

They spoke to my finance class 2-3 years ago. Basically it's a Top 3 market for all the players in the space (Walmart, Albertson's, Kroger, etc). As soon as the enter, they are going to get into a price war that they will lose because they don't have the distribution infrastructure to drive the margins they would need.

Dr Lane Trowlan said:

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robertf03 said:

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Grew up in Dallas so my exposure to HEB is limited to Central Market, the old and new heb on holleman, and the heb in bryan

heb doesnt seem any different than the grocery stores here. The Tom Thumb/Kroger/Albertsons in the poor neighborhoods are terrible while the expensive areas are nice.

If I need the most generic of items I go to the albertsons on garland and buckner, but half of that neighborhood sucks and the parking lot is trashy so I dont mind driving over to CM. That Tom Thumb on gaston is a joke, they have nothing.

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WRONG.

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Explain

Bryan HEB was a toilet, and so was the one on holleman before it moved across the street.

Those were their entry level stores into a new market. They were not full HEB stores.

HEB is supposed to be coming to Mansfield, they deal in place with the City that mandates construction to begin by 2019:

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/mansfield-news-mirror/article86424022.html

The Super HEB's in San Antonio blow any HEB and or Walmart out of the water. The Wine selection is fantastic as is the craft beer selection. Great selection on meats and produce as well. Prices are great. These Super HEB's would thrive in a DFW market especially in north Dallas. Makes no sense for them to not go up there. Same thing would happen up there that happened in San Antonio. You start seeing other players (Alberton's/Tom Thumbs/etc.) start closing there doors like they did down there in the early 2000's after HEB started taking over.

Tree Hugger said:

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HEB is supposed to be coming to Mansfield, they deal in place with the City that mandates construction to begin by 2019:

http://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/mansfield-news-mirror/article86424022.html

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Yes, but somehow Burleson and Mansfield aren't DFW because muuhhh Dallas.

Dr Lane Trowlan said:

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Why won't my beloved HEB build in the Metroplex? I can't stand shopping at Kroger. Kroger sucks. Does anyone know any legitimate reasons HEB hasn't built up here. I've heard a few rumors of deals between cities/grocers, but I'm not sure if they're true or not.

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I just moved to the area last week and noticed that. Not a fan of buying groceries at the 2 nearest Krogers around my area. May have to visit the Central Market for the HEB fix

NewOldAg said:

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wbt5845 said:

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Yes, but somehow Burleson and Mansfield aren't DFW because muuhhh Dallas.

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I understand the sentiment but when you consider that population density in DFW is generally higher to the North and East sides, and both Burleson and Mansfield are relatively South and West, it makes sense that neither would be considered by most on this board.

When people talk about wanting HEB in DFW, they are saying they want it in Plano/Southlake/Richardson/etc. They are not wishing Cedar Hill or Waxahachie had one.

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Yep. something like 80% of the population of the metroplex is NORTH of I-30.

You can see here the Orange higher density areas extend north all the way up to McKinney and Denton even. But to the south there is a steep drop off just outside Dallas/FW/Arlington city limits.


Replaced map...this one has more granularity.

BernArnold said:

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NewOldAg said:

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wbt5845 said:

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Yes, but somehow Burleson and Mansfield aren't DFW because muuhhh Dallas.

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I understand the sentiment but when you consider that population density in DFW is generally higher to the North and East sides, and both Burleson and Mansfield are relatively South and West, it makes sense that neither would be considered by most on this board.

When people talk about wanting HEB in DFW, they are saying they want it in Plano/Southlake/Richardson/etc. They are not wishing Cedar Hill or Waxahachie had one.

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Yep. something like 80% of the population of the metroplex is NORTH of I-30.

You can see here the Orange higher density areas extend north all the way up to McKinney and Denton even. But to the south there is a steep drop off just outside Dallas/FW/Arlington city limits.


Replaced map...this one has more granularity.

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I don't think anyone is making the argument that Mansfield isn't a part of the Metroplex. The point I was making is that people use "the Metroplex" or "DFW" as a synonym for the places they go in their daily/weekly experience. For about 80% of people, that means only areas north of I-30. So from their point of view, "there are no HEB's in the Metroplex" makes perfect sense. It's technically wrong, because HEB is nibbling at the edges on the South and West sides of the Metroplex.

However, given the population distribution expecting people to have interacted with those areas of the Metroplex in any meaningful way is pretty unreasonable.

Honestly, my biggest issue with HEB when I go, doesn't matter the city or time of day, they're too crowded.

I understand it is part of the Metroplex...never said any different.

Just saying that putting one in Mckinney/Cedar Hill/Burleson whatever is not serving 90%+ of the metroplex still.



3 Dallas 1,317,929
5 Fort Worth 833,319
7 Arlington 388,125
9 Plano 283,558
12 Garland 236,897
13 Irving 236,607
15 Grand Prairie 187,809
17 McKinney 162,898
18 Frisco 154,407
20 Mesquite 144,788
23 Carrollton 133,168
26 Denton 131,044
32 Richardson 110,815
36 Lewisville 104,039
40 Allen 98,143
50 Flower Mound 71,253
52 North Richland Hills 69,204
65 Euless 54,219
67 Grapevine 51,404

plus Coppell, Keller, Southlake, Watauga, Saginaw, Richland Hills, Haltom City, Hurst, Euless, Bedford, Farmers Branch, Addison, Sachse, Wylie, Parker

-----------------------------------------------

58 Mansfield 64,274
61 Rowlett 60,236
66 DeSoto 52,486
Cedar Hill 48,343
Burleson 45,016
Duncanville 39,437
Lancaster 38,867
Seagoville 16,093
Crowley 14,969
Hutchins 5,639
Wilmer 4,016


Thats like 390K of population below the big cities of Dallas, FTW, Arlington, GP
And 5.5-6 million including the big cities and everything north of there.

Just pointing out the statement "there aren't any HEBs in DFW" is wrong.

wbt5845 said:

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BernArnold said:

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NewOldAg said:

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wbt5845 said:

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Yes, but somehow Burleson and Mansfield aren't DFW because muuhhh Dallas.

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I understand the sentiment but when you consider that population density in DFW is generally higher to the North and East sides, and both Burleson and Mansfield are relatively South and West, it makes sense that neither would be considered by most on this board.

When people talk about wanting HEB in DFW, they are saying they want it in Plano/Southlake/Richardson/etc. They are not wishing Cedar Hill or Waxahachie had one.

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Yep. something like 80% of the population of the metroplex is NORTH of I-30.

You can see here the Orange higher density areas extend north all the way up to McKinney and Denton even. But to the south there is a steep drop off just outside Dallas/FW/Arlington city limits.


Replaced map...this one has more granularity.

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Anyone know where DFW airport is?

Unthought Known said:

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wbt5845 said:

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Just pointing out the statement "there aren't any HEBs in DFW" is wrong.

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The inferiotory complex is strong in this one.

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At least I got an HEB down the street.

I would encourage you to go to Sprouts for great produce and a solid meat selection.

HEB here in Granbury, and a few months after it opened, Kroger closed and built a brand new store right across the road from HEB.

The most populated area of Fort Worth could be at this HEB in about 30min, roughly the same time it would take that person to get to DFW airport.

#notthemetroplex