Need help. I have crazy ass neighbors who have appointed themselves kings of our HOA. They have too much time on their hands, including semiretired lawyers, who patrol the neighborhood on their daily walks of the community. They love to take any little thing with our HOA Covenants and twist it around.

Here is the issue. I am putting in a pool. The wife and I thought, 'Gosh, would be nice to have a fire bowl on the pool deck to enjoy a glass of wine next too when its cool outside.' So we asked the pool builder, and he said no problem, do that all the time. HOA Architectural Committee (who have given themselves various other titles as well) came back and said we cannot do a fire pit because

"No activities shall be conducted on any Lot and no Improvement shall be constructed or used on any Lot that are or might be unsafe or hazardous to any Person or the Property. Without limiting the generality of the foregoing, no firearms shall be discharged and no open fires shall be lighted or permitted on any Lot or other portion of the Property, except (a) in a contained barbecue unit while attended and in use for cooking purposes, (b) within a safe and well-designed interior fireplace, or (c) such campfires or picnic fires in Common Areas
designated for such use by Declarant during Declarant's Control Period, and by the Board thereafter, or by the Board as to all Association Property.

I get it, I shouldn't light a bonfire in my back yard. I think this is a huge stretch and was thinking I could get a fire safety expert to review and determine that the fire bowl, which would be bordered on one side by 15 feet of pool, and on the others by 15' of concrete deck, was not unsafe or hazardous.

Anybody have any suggestions? I tried to check if the Travis County Fire Dept could do stuff like this but doesnt look like.

Put a rack on it and throw on some ribs

Sounds like you need to rename the fire pit a self contained barbecue / s'mores out door kitchen and resubmit.

It doesn't matter what an expert says the rule seems pretty clear, just use the wording to your favor.

Not sure they are going to buy me calling it a barbeque unit. It wont have a lid and therefore wont be contained. This is kind of bull**** given a few of my other neighbors already have them.

Contained doesn't mean it has to be covered. Like someone said, toss a rack on it and be done with it.

If your neighbors have them, then take some pics and say wtf to the nazi's giving you a hard time.

You might consider burning their houses down for good measure

our neighborhood is a Firewise community, so I know they came in, did some education, helped us clean up stuff and then rubber stamped us a being a firewise community. Now we have a nice sign at the entrance of our neghborhood. Yay.

https://www.statesman.com/news/local/barton-creek-west-named-firewise-community/LtB5S0WqhziQxAY4DBkPPP/

perhaps they do some sort of evaluation on what you are trying to do. IMHO, I would do what you want and ignore the HOA. Call it a smore pit and enjoy. If people start to be that nosy on you I would just cross that bridge when/if it happens.

Buy a cover for it and keep covered when not using and let the nazis EAD.

interestingly I just received this from my HOA - note it says in the email we can use fire pits, but then in the CCRs is specifically says we can't. Oddly it uses the exact same wording as the OP...

Quote:

---

The recent discovery of two open fires in the Barton Creek West Nature Preserve was very disturbing to our entire community. Luckily, neighbors were able to put these fires out before they could spread and potentially cause devastating damage to the Preserve, to our homes, and to our families.

Due to the highly flammable materials in our 400 acre Preserve trees, grasses, and brush and the sometimes extremely dangerous conditions during periods of drought, we all need to be aware of the rules regarding fire in our Homeowner's Association "Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions". Each of us should go to our community website (http://bit.ly/BCWccr); section 8.04 (Damages); section 8.05 (Damage and Destruction), and section 9.02 (Restrictions on Use). Familiarize your entire familyespecially your childrenwith the great dangers of fire, and the CC&R rules.

The bottom line is this: the discharge of firearms, fireworks, and open fires (with the exceptions for fireplaces and contained cooking units within private yards) are not allowed. Fire Pits (the metal outdoor fireplace units) with screens are allowed in yards if there is no burn ban in effect. No overnight camping, hunting, shooting of firearms or bows and arrows, or other weapons is ever allowed in our Nature Preserve/Greenbelt. Likewise, no fireworks or open fires of any type are permitted at any time in these areas. If you or your family or guests are responsible for any damage or destruction, your insurance will be paid to the Association. If your insurance does not cover all the costs of restoring damaged property, you may be responsible for covering any deficiency. We are all responsible for the behavior of our children who sometimes do not understand the serious potential of fire or firearms to create grave damage to our preserve, our homes, and even our lives.

We have consulted extensively with fire experts over the years, and we have been told that the conditions in our Nature Preserve are conducive to wildfires. We have all seen disturbing images of wildfires in California, Colorado, and even close by in Bastrop and Spicewood. One careless fire ring in our Nature Preserve could spread very quickly and explode into a deadly fire that could destroy homes and take lives. This is not an overly dramatic statement. It is a sobering statement of fact. We must all pay attention to the sensible requirements of our CC&Rs, and we must instill in our neighbors and in our children, an urgent sense of responsibility.

Below are abridged versions of the sections of the CC&Rs that mainly pertain to fire. Each homeowner should read them in their entirety. These edited versions are only meant to give you the general sense of our CC&R rules regarding fire and related issues. They should be carefully read in full by each of us.

"3.17 Hazardous Activities. No activities shall be conducted on the Property and no Improvements shall be constructed on the Property which are or might be unsafe or hazardous to any person or property. Without limit, the generality of the foregoing, no firearms or fireworks shall be discharged upon the Property, no open fires shall be lighted or permitted except within safe and well-designed interior fireplaces, or on contained barbeque units while attended and in use for cooking purposes."

"9.02 Restrictions on Use. Greenbelt areas shall be subject to the following restrictions. . . . Greenbelt areas shall never be used for overnight camping. . . . No hunting shall be permitted within the Greenbelt areas, nor shall the use or discharge of firearms, bows and arrows or other weapons be permitted. . . . No fireworks shall be permitted to be discharged in the Greenbelt areas, and no open fires shall be lighted or permitted at any time."

"8.04 Damages. Each member of the Association and each lessee of any portion of the Property shall be liable to the Association for any damage to property of the Association which may be sustained by reason of the negligent or intentional misconduct of such person or of his family, guests or invitees. . . . "

"8.05 Damage and Destruction. In case of destruction of or damage to Association property by fire or casualty, the available insurance proceeds shall be paid to the Association, which shall contract to repair or rebuild the Association property so damaged. Should the insurance proceeds be insufficient to pay all of the costs of repairing or rebuilding the damaged property, the Association may levy a special assessment to recover any deficiency."

Again, each homeowner should carefully read all of our CC&Rs, especially those pertaining to fire and the use of firearms. We all should talk to our children and our guests about the rules of BCW and about the serious consequences of their actions.

Here is a brief list of things that are carefully restricted or banned altogether in BCW and/or in our Nature Preserve. Each of us must carefully read the complete, detailed rules in our CC&R document. (http://bit.ly/BCWccr)

-- Campfires and fire rings. We all enjoy them at summer camp or in the scouts, but they are strictly forbidden in our Nature Preserve.
-- Cigarettes, cigars, pipes, bongs and any other smoking devices have the potential to cause devastating fires in our community.
-- Many of us enjoy grilling or barbequeing, but this is only allowed in closed cooking containers and only in our yards. It is never allowed in the Nature Preserve. We should all be careful about grilling or barbequing in our yards or driveways, especially close to the Nature Preserve.
-- Burning brush or leaves is never allowed and can be extremely dangerous to our community. It may seem like an easy way to dispose of lawn or tree waste but there are far better ways to take care of these materials. They should never be dumped into the Nature Preserve. Also keep in mind that no mowing or cutting of trees is ever allowed in the Nature Preserve or behind your property line. Any such activities are only allowed with written permission of our Architectural Committee.

Thank you for taking the time to read this, for being vigilant, and talking to your family. We can work together to keep Barton Creek West the beautiful and safe place that we all enjoy.

---

Thanks. That is helpful. Would it be possible to forward me the email from your HOA that I can use as evidence that other fire conscious communities allow if despite the same wording? I am sure the covenants are cookie cutter.

What about a gas fire pit? Building Code regulates this type of construction has published standards for the spark arrestor and prevention of embers. Seems reasonable, but I can see where they have zeroed in on "cooking". Let us know what happens.

sure - email me at my texags user name at hot mail dot com and I will forward on

When I read that from my HOA, it was very contradictory...it says we can use fire pits, then later says we can't. So I did the following:

Quote:

---

From: hoaboard@bcw.email <hoaboard@bcw.email>
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018, 1:26:06 PM CDT
Subject: Re: BCW Fire Wise tips

Sorry for the confusion.

The rules are:

1. During a burn ban, you can't use fire pits even in your yard.
2. During a burn ban, you can use a BBQ pit in your yard.
3. When a burn ban is not in place, you can use a fire pit in your yard.
4. No matter if there is a burn ban or not, you cannot have a fire in
the greenbelt.


On 2018-05-09 9:29 am, Capcity12thMan wrote:
> "Fire Pits (the metal outdoor fireplace units) with screens are
> allowed in yards if there is no burn ban in effect"
>
> "no open fires shall be lighted or permitted except within safe and
> well-designed interior fireplaces, or on contained barbeque units
> while attended and in use for cooking purposes."
>
> so, which is it?

---

So in our CCRs nothing is allowed, but the "rules" are what she laid out to me...next question - shouldn't these rules be in the CCRs then?

and FYI perhaps our HOAs are managed by the same place - Goodwin

clear as mud now.

Quote:

---

From: hoaboard@bcw.email
Sent: Wednesday, May 9, 2018, 2:12:49 PM CDT
Subject: Re: BCW Fire Wise tips

The CCRs does not address fire pits at all.

My point is that the CCRs don't "disallow" them in your yard if there is
no burn ban in effect.

On 2018-05-09 1:05 pm, CapCity12thMan wrote:
fair enough - that covers points 1 & 2 from you. The CCRs say nothing
about item #3 you sent:

3. When a burn ban is not in place, you can use a fire pit in your
yard.



On Wednesday, May 9, 2018, 1:59:01 PM CDT, BCW email wrote:

CCR's hits up on most of that.

Travis County sets the laws on what you can do during a burn ban (ie,
no
fire pit in your yard) and that isn't in the CCR's.

On 2018-05-09 12:39 pm, Capcity12thMan wrote:
so the level of clarity you gave here is great, but I don't see any
of
that in the CCRs - or is there some other list of rules that is
different than CCRs? I was under the impression CCRs are the rules.

This is important stuff so I just want to be clear on where to go to
get the right info.



On Wednesday, May 9, 2018, 1:26:06 PM CDT, BCW email wrote:

Sorry for the confusion.

The rules are:

1. During a burn ban, you can't use fire pits even in your yard.
2. During a burn ban, you can use a BBQ pit in your yard.
3. When a burn ban is not in place, you can use a fire pit in your
yard.
4. No matter if there is a burn ban or not, you cannot have a fire
in
the greenbelt.

On 2018-05-09 9:29 am, Capcity12thMan wrote:
"Fire Pits (the metal outdoor fireplace units) with screens are
allowed in yards if there is no burn ban in effect"

"no open fires shall be lighted or permitted except within safe and
well-designed interior fireplaces, or on contained barbeque units
while attended and in use for cooking purposes."

so, which is it?

---

No, ours is Associa Hill Country. I think it is just cookie cutter language that the developers use. I don't think any thought goes into it.

To answer your question, if you are in Travis County, call the local fire station and ask to talk with an inspector. They can probably tell you. If you live in COA, I doubt they would be helpful.

yeah my experience with Travis County Sheriff's department has been good. I have called them with random questions from time to time and they have always been helpful.

I called to ask if it was ok to fire rockets at WestRidge Middle School with my two boys as I couldn't find any language that addressed rocket launching. The TCSO officer I spoke with said "technically they aren't fireworks so just use your best judgement and common sense".

Thanks. Will give it a try. We are extrajuristictional territory, and have a Travis county service.

Problem is, no matter what a "fire safety expert" says, anything other than a grill or interior fireplace is against your HOA. Either get the votes to change your rules or play within them. Or ignore the rules and manage any consequences later.

Obviously I was getting an expert to objectify the language in the covenants and whether our addition constitutes an actual risk.