Tough to answer and I'm Round Rock but been here for 26 years.

1. Demographics. ie high percentage of low economic kids although the Feds do supply some funding.

2. Robin Hood. Austin sends an incredible amount of their taxes to the state which negates the wealth advantage.

3. State ratings are not very good IMO. With three kids through public school I put good principals and teachers as way more important then tests that change every year and not well designed. Look at schools with low admin turnover and most likely it's a good school for their kids.

4. AISD is a huge administration that can weigh down the teachers leading to turnover and combined with relatively low pay for the local cost of living makes it tough.

Others can add to this

People want to point the finger at all kinds of things, but the truth is that school performance is based on the intelligence of the students.

Smart people create/nurture smarter and more driven kids. Smart people tend to live around each other, so their kids go to the same schools, and so those schools do better. Smart people tend to be more successful, so they are wealthier, so it looks like money has something to do with it, but it doesn't, its just a correlation.

There are smart people/kids in poor areas, and those kids tend to find their way out, even though their school is low rated because its full of less intelligent (dumb) kids. There are dumb kids that live in wealthy areas, and those kids dont do well in the high-rated schools and so they tend to find their way out of the wealthy areas.

In Austin, there are a few areas where smart people live:
- Eanes
- Lake Travis
- Western Round Rock
- Leander/Cedar Park
- Dripping Springs
- Central Austin
- Southwest Austin
- Northwest Hills

The schools in these areas do better. Some of it is AISD, most of it is not. Some of those AISD areas have parents who ship their kids to a private school, to be around other smart kids, so the school quality suffers because they lose the kids on the higher end of the bell curve.

In Austin, there are also the noble gentrifiers, who, while smart, consider it their personal, social mission to move to poor areas in hopes to influence the areas to do better. It doesnt really work, because the area is still full of dumb people.

People are not created equal. Some are smarter than others. I grew up in Westlake, surrounded by the cream of the crop. There were kids in that school who were crazy smart, and they usually had smart parents who were professors or engineers, etc. 20 years later, those kids are all doing just fine. There were also some dumb kids at Westlake. Those kids aren't as successful, they dont live in Westlake anymore. We all went to the same school, and had the same opportunities.

Username checks out.

I'm a teacher... give me a "dumb" kid with drive and determination over a smart lazy kid any day.

CapCity12thMan said:

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had the same opportunities

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Just going to the same school does not mean you had the same opportunities.

I went to a really expensive private school growing up, 30 miles from my house, while on financial aid. In no way did I have the same opportunities that my classmates did. In school - yes, sort of. Outside of school - no way.

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We arent talking about private schools. If you had gone to Public school in your neighborhood, you would have had the same opportunities in school as your neighbors, and been on a fairly equal playing field with them. Of course you didnt have the same opportunities out of school, that would be an asinine assertion. We are talking about public school performance. Schools don't perform better because rich kids get to go to their vacation homes, etc, and poor kids dont.

I'm guessing your parent would have been part of the smart people living in a predominantly dumb area, that's why they shipped you off to Private School.

jah003 said:

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I'm a teacher... give me a "dumb" kid with drive and determination over a smart lazy kid any day.

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Good on you, but I'm not arguing which kids you'd like to teach more. As a population, Dumb kids (regardless of their "drive") have a performance ceiling on tests, which affects school performance. The "lazy" smart kid on the other hand, has things come easier to him in life (and on tests) because he has the aptitude to think his way through problems (and test questions). He simply doesn't have to work as hard. The fact that he's an arrogant *****, that you dont like, is irrelevant to his academic/test-taking aptitude.

I was raised by a high school teacher, and I married one. Teachers are big dreamers and can look at kids with rose colored glasses, AND I'M GLAD THEY DO! I dont think we should give up on any kids, because they all have the ability to contribute to society. But, when measuring school performance like we do, you arent going to take a population of dumb kids and turn them into an Exemplary rated school, unless you move the goalposts to accommodate them.

If it makes you feel better, when you see smart, just read "more academically gifted" and when you read dumb, just read "less academically gifted". I'm not trying to use the PC terms, because they take too long to type.

This is the classic nature vs. nurture argument. Its warm and fuzzy to believe that all kids are equal sponges/clay blocks and can be anything. Its the prevailing opinion in our society, propagated by the same people who say: gender is fluid, and all the other PC talking points. But, its wrong.

I've lived long enough to see that not everyone can perform the same at the same tasks. I know there are people who are smarter than me, and I know people are less smart than me. They are all good people and worthy of respect. People are not created equal. Don't believe me? Go play 1-on-1 with LeBron James, let me know how that goes. Your response is: "well, that is physical giftedness, that is different." No, its not. Your brain is part of your physical body, and everyones is different.

I dont know if you have kids, but I do and from a very early age I could see differences between my kids and their peers. Some are outgoing, some are shy, some are tall, some are short, some are more physical and are athletic, some are not, and yes, some are more intelligent than others.

I get it, you dont like the word "dumb." Its a word that has a lot of baggage to you. Just realize its an oversimplification to get a point across. I'm not calling anyone dumb, I'm talking about populations. And yes, those areas are full of parents and kids who are less academically gifted.

It doesnt mean that there are no smart people there. It doesnt mean that these people are worth less than someone in another area. It doesnt mean they arent gifted in other areas where they can excel in life.

It just means the population as a whole is less gifted academically. People dont like the Nature side of the Nature/Nurture argument, because its cold and unfair, and puts people at a perceived disadvantage. Its just the way it is.

Just how high is that pedestal you are on, Westlake native? I'm going to harp on that because you found it necessary to let everyone know that's where you grew up.

You sound like a pompous a****** , and that's generally how I categorize most people from Westlake. Thanks for furthering my data points trending in that direction. You are right in the SES as it relates to academic achievement, but you come off as someone who thinks he is better than others because he didn't grow up in a "dumb" area.

That said - what do you think about military kids? Most of those families aren't in "advantaged areas," the base/post schools are generally pretty mediocre, pay isn't great etc. They move around a lot - typically every 3 years. They are generally never in a "Westlake" type environment. Are you now saying that military kids are dumber than the kids from your hometown?

Well, I've learned one thing from this: those of us who live in Westlake are either "abnormal", or "pompous a*******", or both.

For the record, there are plenty of normal folks in Westlake (there's a wider variety of incomes than you think), and they are mostly not braggarts, either. We just don't go around saying "Yay, Westlake!" (except, perhaps, at football games).

By the way, that "high achievement" culture at WHS and in the neighborhood causes probably as much stress and difficulty for at least the same number of students as it "encourages". Over 30% of Eanes students have at least a 504 accommodation, if they're not receiving special Ed services outright.

Complaint Investigator said:

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Just how high is that pedestal you are on, Westlake native? I'm going to harp on that because you found it necessary to let everyone know that's where you grew up.

You sound like a pompous a****** , and that's generally how I categorize most people from Westlake. Thanks for furthering my data points trending in that direction. You are right in the SES as it relates to academic achievement, but you come off as someone who thinks he is better than others because he didn't grow up in a "dumb" area.

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I'm sorry that my growing up in Westlake offends you, I didn't really have a choice in the matter. I actually don't live there now. I used it as an example, because that's where I grew up, I can't speak anecdotally from anywhere else, also its particularly relevant since we are discussing Austin area schools. Since you may not have read it closely, here is what I said about Westlake:

Quote:

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I grew up in Westlake, surrounded by the cream of the crop. There were kids in that school who were crazy smart, and they usually had smart parents who were professors or engineers, etc. 20 years later, those kids are all doing just fine. There were also some dumb kids at Westlake. Those kids aren't as successful, they dont live in Westlake anymore. We all went to the same school, and had the same opportunities.

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I said I was surrounded by the cream of the crop, not that I WAS the cotc. The point of this example was that there are exceptions to the population as a whole. In other words, there are dumb kids at Exemplary Schools (just less of them), and there are smart kids at low-performing schools (just less of them).

Complaint Investigator said:

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That said - what do you think about military kids? Most of those families aren't in "advantaged areas," the base/post schools are generally pretty mediocre, pay isn't great etc. They move around a lot - typically every 3 years. They are generally never in a "Westlake" type environment. Are you now saying that military kids are dumber than the kids from your hometown?

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Again, I'm categorizing POPULATIONS not INDIVIDUALS. Clearly you agree that's ok because you wrote: "that's generally how I categorize most people from Westlake." A brilliant military kid at a crappy school is the exception to the population, just like you caveat-ed your statement with the word: "most." That kid(s) is not going to raise the results for the entire school.

evan_aggie said:

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It's the fact that you are suggesting areas of a town which have underperforming schools are full of kids genetically predisposed to being less smart than others.

You then use some wild example of Lebron James to try and justify your own ignorance.

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Yes, that is my point. And the LeBron example is perfectly relevant because he is "genetically predisposed" to being a hell of a lot better basketball player than you or me. It isn't because some coach pushed him extra hard in middle school that he became a superstar athlete. I'm 5'8'', I was never going to be an NBA superstar, regardless of how hard I worked.

I could have used Neil DeGrasse Tyson or Stephen Hawking or Albert Einstein instead, no matter how hard I work, I am never going to be as smart as those guys. They are "genetically predisposed" to be smarter than me. That doesn't mean that I can't lead a productive life. If you give me a school full of genius physicists and a school full of LeBron's, it doesn't take a PhD in Statistics to figure out which school is going to test better, and which school is going to win the next basketball game, regardless of their coaching and teaching.

I'm presenting some valid arguments for my theory, so far all you have done is say you don't like it, and that I am ignorant. Tell me, am I really the ignorant one, or would you care to engage with some arguments for argument sake.

Northwest Hills here that feeds into RRISD/Westwood here. I have a coworker who left Westwood, where her son graduated from to move into Eanes where her child would have an easier time. From what she tells me, the experience has been night and day for her daughter compared to her son. Teachers were way more sympathetic to late work at Westlake versus Westwood.

As a kid who came out of schools in the Valley, for me, the differences between the crappy schools and great schools start at home...with the parents. Even in crappy school that has dirt poor kids(where my mother in law taught) they had amazing parents who spent time with the kids...volunteered and worked with the teachers to see those kids be successful. The principal would raise money in the rich neighborhoods, in turn, would buy school supplies for kids who lived in old school busses.

Go look at a great school and notice what makes the difference. It's not money because they literally spend less per pupil. It's the parental involvement

this bitter old man speaks it!

Because they don't care

Charpie said:

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Really? Why would they do that?

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you disagree? but, it's a sterotype for a reason. one of my ex's was from the valley and used to talk about it all of the time.

this is what she used to say about her family and friends.

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A kid walks up to a fisherman with 2 buckets. One of the buckets is open and has a bunch of crabs in it.
The other bucket has a lid on it.

He asks, "what's in the other bucket?"

Fishmerman replies, "crabs."

Kid asks, "why do you only have a top on one bucket and not the other?"

Fisherman replies, "well, the bucket with the top is full of white crabs. they work together and try and push each other up and escape. this other bucket is full of hispanic crabs. whenever one tries to escape all of the other crabs start pulling it back down."

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this is a white/hispanic joke. but, it could very well be a poor kid from the other side of tracks joke.

my mom grew up dirt poor. she was a voracious reader and was the first woman in her family to go to college.

her dad would tell her she was getting "uppity". the rest of the family would ask why would a girl need to go to college.

Charpie said:

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I grew up in the Valley. My grandparents and parents were migrant farm workers. Every generation has done better financially better than the generation before. Its not all poor people

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oh good lord charpie. completely missing the point or just being willfully obtuse.