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what do you propose a person would do to subdue two or more people that are a foot taller than you and have more muscle?

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Knockout mechanism

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and somehow a marine was incapable of stopping this imminent death with appropriate physical resistance.

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Jack Bauer was in the army for a while, and he could take down a dozen terrorist with one hand. That guy is no Jack Bauer.

During the last bar fight/fatal stabbing I remember, at Hurricane Harry's, the defendant also tried to claim self defense. The jury didn't buy it, although his attorney seemed to put up a hell of a fight. They did give him a moderately light sentence, though.

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“ As long as there are bars in Bryan-College Station, there will be bar fights,” prosecutor Jarvis Parsons told the jury during closing arguments. “But just because somebody punches you in the face, you don’t have the right to stab them in the chest.”

...While it’s not easy to hold a 24-year-old accountable for such a serious crime, it is necessary, Phelps said, explaining that he would much rather be prosecuting Davidson for misdemeanor assault rather than Russell for murder.

“ James Davidson Jr. may have had something coming to him, but it wasn’t a 3 1/2-inch knife blade that was plunged into his chest,” he said.

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“ It’s awful easy for the state to tell you that Roger Russell should have run,” Barron told the jurors during closing arguments. “But you have to view it from his standpoint. Do you have to take a kicking and a beating? No. You just don’t.”

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http://www.theeagle.com/region/localregional/052504russelltrial.php

http://www.theeagle.com/region/localregional/052604sentence.php

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Knockout mechanism

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Must be a piece of cake against a group of people that outmatch you physically.

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user level: TexAgs LegendAggie SpiritPremium Level Supporter posted 6:28p, 4/8/2007this user's public profilesend private message to useredit this replyobject to this reply



http://www.nraila.org/ArmedCitizen/

quotees Moines Register, Des Moines, Iowa, 10/15/04
State: IA
American Rifleman Issue: 11/1/2004
When his wife's ex-husband forced his way into their Fort Dodge, Iowa, home, and assaulted him, Dr. Daniel Cole, a medical examiner, retrieved a gun and fired a shot, fatally wounding his assailant. A Webster County grand jury declined to file charges.



quote:Austin American-Statesman, Austin, TX, 02/14/04
State: TX
American Rifleman Issue: 5/1/2004
Perry Tatsch and his wife were sleeping when a man drove his truck through a gate on their property and kicked in the front door around 2 a.m. The intruder, later identified as Steven Ray Foster, then assaulted Mr. Tatsch. Coming to her husband's aid, Tatsch's wife managed to push Foster into the kitchen. When Tatsch then ran into his bathroom, Foster followed him and continued beating him. Tatsch's wife intervened a second time, giving Tatsch enough time to secure a handgun. Tatsch then ordered Foster to leave. The two men struggled and Tatsch shot Foster in the chest, killing him. The Tatsches had separated for a while and Foster reportedly had been interested in dating Mrs. Tatsch, who told authorities she did not share Foster's interest.



quote: The Post and Courier, Charleston, S C., 10/7/01
State: SC
American Rifleman Issue: 1/1/2002
An elderly man shot an intruder after the man forced his way into a house and assaulted the homeowner and his wife. The couple had heard noises from the back of their house, then they saw a stranger walking from the back yard to the front yard. When they went to their front door to see what was going on, the stranger forced his way into the home and a brief struggle ensued, with the intruder pushing and grabbing at the homeowners. When the interloper then bolted toward the back of the house, the homeowner grabbed his gun from a bedroom and shot his attacker when he again tried to assault him.


quote:


Dallas Morning News, Dallas, Tex., 7/30/04
State: TX
American Rifleman Issue: 8/1/2004
Awakened at 4 AM by the sounds of banging on the door of his Dallas, Tex., home, Karl Julius decided to check it out. While his wife called 911, Julius retrieved a handgun. When Julius opened the front door, an intruder rushed at him. Julius fired one shot, killing the assailant. Police said the shooting "apparently was justified."



There are plenty more.

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All of these occurred in the home.

http://www.khou.com/topstories/stories/khou070408_tnt_ricebballplayer.1dbc679.html
I don't know about the stuff his parents said, but that guy is pretty beat up. There is definitely two legitimate sides to this story

What a chore for the cspd.. trying to make sense of all the stories from drunk victims, drunk suspects, and drunk witnesses.

jamesf .... The only word so far that Fuller's head was stomped on came from Fuller's lawyer. Assuming the pic above was taken within 24 or even 36 hours after the incident, IMO that head is not one that has been stomped on. The "mouse" under each eye in the pic also creates a question about the severity of the beating Fuller endured. He may have worse wounds on the back side of his head but what is presented above is short of what I consider a severe beating. (I have witnessed a number of fistfights and observed the aftermath of many more and I can assure you the nose and mouth are the first to absorb punishing blows; the nose because it is the easiest target and the mouth because it is the source of trashtalk that normally propels arguments into the upper dimensions. The two "mouses" depicted above are typical of what most boys at one time or other have endured in playground accidents.)

The questions yet to be answered are why the fight went from the front of V-Bar around the corner to Patricia Street and from there down the block. I suspect "lying in wait" by one party or the other will play a big part in this trial.

This is going to be a real mess for a local jury to sort out because all testimony will be hazy recollections of drunken fools.

If I was on the jury, it would take a very good case for me to find the marine guilty of anything if the Fuller side of the story is true.

If I had a friend getting jumped (and robbed) by two big muscular dudes and others, I'd probably escalate the force to if I it was possible to save his life. It sounds more like the act of a hero than a thug.

It doesn't take much to kill someone when you're kicking them in the head.

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This is going to be a real mess for a local jury to sort out because all testimony will be hazy recollections of drunken fools.

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And Johnson has already admitted to being so drunk that he doesn't recall his knife making contact with anyone, much less killing anyone.
Of course, the jury may or may not ever hear that.

aggie-master ... That question will eventually be answered by the officers who responded to the scene. No doubt those officers have broken up a lot of fights and can easily recognize when a person has been kicked or stomped on the head. It is not a pretty sight and the visual evidence of such are clear and long lasting. I have no direct knowledge of the incident but officers at the scene can reconstruct what happened pretty accurately.

from CSPD...

UPDATE: On 04/09/07, Janson Bailey was released from St. Joseph Hospital.

ooshwa - Goodness you are very, very quick. I was going to post the update and you had it there literally within minutes. I couldn't get logged in as quick as you updated.

Is that the picture yall were saying was so gruesome? Yea the guy looks beat up, but that does not look like a life threatening beat down.

tliac, if i'm at my desk, i do what i can. thanks for always keeping us up-to-date when i'm not around!

When I saw Fuller the other day, he looked A LOT worse than in that picture.

There is nothing good about this story. Another sad aspect was the best coverage was not from our local paper. Sad when the Chronicle out scoops 'The Eagle' but then again, that's not surprising. I hope I don't get called for that jury.

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and somehow a Marine was incapable of stopping this imminent death with appropriate physical resistance.

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fify

Both the grammar nazi and the Marine in me made me do it, finally.

I saw a report where they said that Fuller is blind in one eye due to the beat down that he took.

[This message has been edited by aggie-master (edited 4/10/2007 2:18p).]

That was of another beating in houston...not this one

No, there was another pic and it looked a lot worse

You know, you can still beat a man to death. You don't need a weapon. I saw no report that these two seemed to have been letting up on this guy and from his looks he seems not that far from having been killed himself.
There seem possiblites that the other marine might have had justification in using a knife.
I suspect we will find out if he did at trail.
Just because somebody is dead, doesn't mean he was murdered.

the pic above of fuller is from the Saturday press-conference his lawyer and parents held...

as with any bruise, I'm sure he looks worse now as opposed to then.

Dang, and I thought Bryan had crime. Texas Ave. runs both ways and so does the crime rate.

More fodder for the rumor mill!

A friend of a friend, who is an ER nurse, saw Fuller when he was taken for treatment. Multiple of his sinus cavities were crushed/collapsed; i.o.w., he really was beaten very severely. This would make a pretty solid case for third-party defense as justification for Johnson's use of deadly force. I didn't hear this directly; I heard it from my friend, who heard it from his friend, who is the ER nurse and supposedly an eyewitness to the extent of Fuller's injuries.

The same friend of mine also said the Bailey brothers had deliberately gone looking for Fuller to seek revenge for some previous offense, but that was just hearsay to him. I'm skeptical.

Anybody have supporting or contradictory evidence/hearsay on either of these points?


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Bad grammar makes me [sic].

southcutt, are you sure you didn't hear it from kevin bacon?

Har, har.


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Bad grammar makes me [sic].

here's a closer relevant example:

the Super Bowl eve double homicide in Atlanta about 5 years ago that involved NFL player Ray Lewis.

2 guys died in a street fight right outside a nightclub, and no one went to jail. The 2 suspects were acquitted.

This case is sounding more and more like Defense of a Third Party every day. The court system will sort it out but I hate that the guy is being labeled a murderer in light of "the rest of the story".

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I would hope that if you, Baron, were to get jumped that your friends, or surrounding civilians, would be kind enough to use any force they deem necessary to save your life.

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If there were no weapons involved I'd be man enough to throw myself into the fight to protect my friend without being cowardly enough to resort to using a knife in a fist fight.

The result of this case: marine sent to jail. Should be a wakeup call for people who think carrying guns or knives is a universally good thing. You better have control over yourself in panic situations because there is a huge risk of overescalating a simple conflict into manslaughter or murder.
Not only will you suffer by being incarcerated, but you will have to live with the fact that you unnecessarily took a life from the earth for the rest of your life.

who needs witnesses with all knowing people like you

Obviously this is not the norm for fisticuffs, but cases like this are why a blow to the head can be legally considered lethal force.

This was a high school teammate of mine who was killed by one punch from a friend of his after a dispute:

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Phillips then said he and Roy argued and he pushed Roy. When Roy pushed back, Phillips said he punched Roy in the face, causing him to fall back and hit his head on the concrete...

Phillips said he did not know Roy had been pronounced dead from blunt force trauma to the head, until he was later contacted by detectives.

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http://www.pegasusnews.com/news/2007/feb/26/former-duncanville-high-school-graduate-pleads-gui/


[This message has been edited by F W ag 01 (edited 4/15/2007 10:31p).]

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If there were no weapons involved I'd be man enough to throw myself into the fight to protect my friend without being cowardly enough to resort to using a knife in a fist fight.

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I don't think anyone knows the full story here. I know I don't.

But if indeed 4+ guys jumped Fuller and were stomping his unconcious body, jumping in unarmed in an attempt to single-handedly defend the unconcious Fuller from 4 or 5 attackers, at least 2 of whom held a significant physical advantage, may find you quickly in the same defenseless position and in as much peril as Fuller himself.

Interesing Baron...in that case, the headline might of been "Two Marines Stomped to Death" instead on "One Dies of Knife Wounds".

But then, you do seem from your Posts over time to be more inclided to be the Victim than the Victor.

Nice to know there are still a few folks willing to die for principle.

Whatever happened with this? Is there a trial date set or have the charges been dropped? Was anyone else ever charged?