Bryan/College Station Emergency Response Services

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Stupe
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In reply to Roxie146 • 5:12p, 3/3/23
S
There is almost nothing accurate in that post.

CSFD did do a feasibility study and they built that station there due to the volume of calls on Northgate and the high volume of calls on campus during activity weekends.

Football, graduation, baseball, etc....

There are no "unintended consequences". They knew that they would be running mutual aid calls for Bryan from that station and they were expected it was built.
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Stupe
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In reply to Roxie146 • 5:13p, 3/3/23
S
Quote:
Unless of course, College Station really wants Bryan to burn down. And that train of thought is useless.
I'm going to quote this alone just so I can put that emoji to express how ridiculous that statement is.
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Roxie146
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In reply to Stupe • 5:37p, 3/3/23
Then why are they cancelling the mutual aid - if they did not run the numbers correctly to start with, funding would not be an issue.

Why then does Bryan say they owe 0 and CoCS says they owe upwards of 0.5M?

Someone did not do their homework in what ever feasibility study they did to be so upside down.

The reimbursement scheme charges the CoB side higher than the CoCS side.

So the CoCS wants to make money off of its mutual aid arrangement?

That is not the definition of mutual aid.

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SAC4311
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In reply to Roxie146 • 5:47p, 3/3/23
I agree that these small snipes between cities is a problem and the city managers playing politics isn't helping. However the quote from the article doesn't prove your point. The EMS Chief from Bryan says he "believes" the Auto Aid agreement is lopsided because of Station 6? That's not bringing facts to the table. The actual fact is that multiple times a week if not every day multiple College Station ambulances presumably from multiple different stations are running calls in Bryan.

Again, yes Station 6's location is part of a problem and probably poor planning on the City of College Stations part. However Bryan's response to the change in response district's that building Station 6 caused was to relocate their Station 2 further away from the city line. How can you blame College Station and not also acknowledge the Bryan would be trying to play both sides of this? From what I've seen both cities are pretty much equally at fault but only College Station is getting any blame.
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SAC4311
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In reply to BringingChange • 5:50p, 3/3/23
I 100% agree with that sentiment. I'm just saying I understand College Station's decision to try and be fiscally responsible with their tax payers money.

Also if College Station weren't to send an ambulance and Bryan's next closest ambulance was 10 minutes away that would be on the fault of the City of Bryan for not planning their Station/Ambulance placement better.
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Stupe
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In reply to SAC4311 • 5:51p, 3/3/23
S
Quote:
Again, yes Station 6's location is part of a problem and probably poor planning on the City of College Stations part
Where should they have put Station 6 in order to serve that part of College Station?

Do you have a solution to where it should have been built or just a criticism that it's "poor planning"?

Edit: I won't even ask you to give a solution.
Do you even have a simple suggestion as to where it should have been built? Don't forget, the response district for that station covers Highway 6, south of 6 including a high rise structure, apartments, and town homes, two restaurant districts, hotels, a large retail center with a home improvement mega structure, the Northgate area, and campus.

How much farther south should they have built that station where it would have been closer for Bryan Fire Station 2 to respond to calls that CSFD 6 responds to?
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Stupe
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In reply to Roxie146 • 5:59p, 3/3/23
S


Quote:
That is not the definition of mutual aid.
Mutual aid is not free aid.
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Roxie146
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In reply to Stupe • 6:45p, 3/3/23
"During the special meeting, DJ Capener, assistant chief of EMS for the BFD, presented the proposal to the council and went over the rea- soning for a new agreement. The College Station Fire Department and city staff requested termi- nating the Automatic Mutual Aid Agreement in January, which was put in place in July 1997 because they found that the cities were not equally operating available resources for fire and EMS calls.
Under this agreement, auto- matic aid was utilized for all fire and EMS calls, which meant an ambulance or truck would be sent to the call location based on the closest fire station, regardless of city boundaries.
During a Feb. 9 College Station council meeting, College Station Fire Chief Richard Mann fur- ther explained the need for a new agreement because of a 4-to-1 discrepancy in dispatched EMS calls into Bryan. Capener said he believes the reasoning for the dis- crepancy is due to the location of College Station Fire Station #6, which is close to the cities' border."

1. You asked about termination - College Station asked for termination. Read the article in today's Eagle.

2. This whole issue is ridiculous. If a person was having cardiac arrest, no EMS would refuse CPR because doing so would incur a bill that could not be repaid. No firefighter is going to refuse to fight a fire because if he/she crosses a line they won't be reimbursed. It is the nature of the service. No hospital ER is going to refuse emergent care - they may defer treatment but life saving emergent care is rendered regardless of ability to pay. As it should be.

3. College Station is asking for reimbursement rates higher than that of its own citizens. And that CoB pay the difference of that higher rate. That is not mutual aid. That is usery.

Both cities never get reimbursed at 100% - it goes both ways.

This whole issue would be moot if we had regionalized services. The duplication of services costs more and is financially inefficient. But in the current environment no one is going to even suggest regionalization.
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Scruffy
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In reply to Roxie146 • 7:01p, 3/3/23
AG
Roxie146 said:
"During the special meeting, DJ Capener, assistant chief of EMS for the BFD, presented the proposal to the council and went over the rea- soning for a new agreement. The College Station Fire Department and city staff requested termi- nating the Automatic Mutual Aid Agreement in January, which was put in place in July 1997 because they found that the cities were not equally operating available resources for fire and EMS calls.
Under this agreement, auto- matic aid was utilized for all fire and EMS calls, which meant an ambulance or truck would be sent to the call location based on the closest fire station, regardless of city boundaries.
During a Feb. 9 College Station council meeting, College Station Fire Chief Richard Mann fur- ther explained the need for a new agreement because of a 4-to-1 discrepancy in dispatched EMS calls into Bryan. Capener said he believes the reasoning for the dis- crepancy is due to the location of College Station Fire Station #6, which is close to the cities' border."

1. You asked about termination - College Station asked for termination. Read the article in today's Eagle.

2. This whole issue is ridiculous. If a person was having cardiac arrest, no EMS would refuse CPR because doing so would incur a bill that could not be repaid. No firefighter is going to refuse to fight a fire because if he/she crosses a line they won't be reimbursed. It is the nature of the service. No hospital ER is going to refuse emergent care - they may defer treatment but life saving emergent care is rendered regardless of ability to pay. As it should be.

3. College Station is asking for reimbursement rates higher than that of its own citizens. And that CoB pay the difference of that higher rate. That is not mutual aid. That is usery.

Both cities never get reimbursed at 100% - it goes both ways.

This whole issue would be moot if we had regionalized services. The duplication of services costs more and is financially inefficient. But in the current environment no one is going to even suggest regionalization.

Which is why they should go the Nashville route.
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BringingChange
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In reply to Roxie146 • 7:35p, 3/3/23
Roxie146 said:


That is not the definition of mutual aid.



Although I don't want the auto aid to end for safety purposes - there isn't a reason why the CoCS wouldn't want to end it.

Bryan clearly is using CSFD to supplement it's own EMS due to their utter lack of want to staff another ambulance (why pay for a box and crew when you can have CSFD for free).

Just because a station is on the border, doesn't mean that it should run more calls in another city that doesn't pay for it because it's closer. They should be able to provide for their own citizens and only occasionally need to use mutual aid.

If the CoCS really wants to stick it to Bryan, they should axe the fire auto aid so that ISO rating calculation can't include the apparatus at Station 6.
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woodiewood1
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8:14p, 3/3/23
My suggestion would be for Bryan to build a fire station to serve the needs of their citizens in the Bryan Northgate to Hwy 6 area. The nearest ones are 4 to 5 miles away. It looks like the downtown station is the closest..

With all the growth in the Midtown area to Northgate, they need to put one farther south.
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gunan01
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9:18p, 3/3/23
AG
Bryan and CS should just merge
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BCSWguru
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In reply to gunan01 • 9:22p, 3/3/23
gunan01 said:
Bryan and CS should just merge


Nah
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aggiesed8r
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In reply to mr83tr88 • 9:26p, 3/3/23
AG
Are you serious?
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Mathguy64
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In reply to woodiewood1 • 10:13p, 3/3/23
AG
woodiewood1 said:
My suggestion would be for Bryan to build a fire station to serve the needs of their citizens in the Bryan Northgate to Hwy 6 area. The nearest ones are 4 to 5 miles away. It looks like the downtown station is the closest..

With all the growth in the Midtown area to Northgate, they need to put one farther south.
Station 2 is just off Cavitt by the old Post Office.
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Justin2010
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11:11p, 3/3/23
AG
CS very well may be wanting too much.

But the fact is it's providing a service costs CS taxpayers a disproportionate amount of money vs. Bryan taxpayers.

Sorry Bryan: Build a station closer to problem areas or pay up.
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Bryanisbest
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In reply to BCSWguru • 12:26a, 3/4/23
AG
LSCSN said:
gunan01 said:
Bryan and CS should just merge


Nah



The same thing that made CS will prohibit any merger: white flight.
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FamousAgg
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In reply to Justin2010 • 5:47a, 3/4/23
Justin2010 said:
CS very well may be wanting too much.

But the fact is it's providing a service costs CS taxpayers a disproportionate amount of money vs. Bryan taxpayers.

Sorry Bryan: Build a station closer to problem areas or pay up.
this would make sense if cocs wasn't trying to build a sewer line through Bryan
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Stupe
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In reply to woodiewood1 • 6:31a, 3/4/23
S
woodiewood1 said:
My suggestion would be for Bryan to build a fire station to serve the needs of their citizens in the Bryan Northgate to Hwy 6 area. The nearest ones are 4 to 5 miles away. It looks like the downtown station is the closest..

With all the growth in the Midtown area to Northgate, they need to put one farther south.
Why would they do that? They have College Station Fire doing it for free. And if they are asked for money, they can say that College Station just cares about money and not people.
And then get people to say it's College Station Fire's fault for building a fire station that close to the city limits. Even thought that is where it was needed for their city.

It's a win / win for Bryan.
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Stupe
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6:43a, 3/4/23
S
Quote:
3. College Station is asking for reimbursement rates higher than that of its own citizens. And that CoB pay the difference of that higher rate. That is not mutual aid. That is usery.
That is how a lot of mutual aid agreements work.

You keep leaving out the fact that when CS has units responding in Bryan, CS is then down a unit. That means that a unit farther away has to respond if there is an emergency in that area. That means increased response time, more fuel, and more units out.
If another call comes in while the first unit is still at the hospital, another ambulance from even farther away has to respond.

Why is it that you keep blaming the department that is picking up the slack instead of the department that isn't taking care of business and building a station?
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Stucco
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7:38a, 3/4/23
Is there no middle ground between free service and lack of service?
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taxpreparer
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7:47a, 3/4/23
AG
A lot of goal tending for both cities in this thread. If the agreement did not specify a rate or formula for reimbursement, then both city councils, and their city lawyers, were stupid. Without that being specified Bryan can say they are being overcharged and College Station can complain about getting under cut.

The suggestion for Bryan to build closer to Northgate is a good one that could help balance the books. With TEXDOT putting medians everywhere it can be almost impossible for emergency services to get from Tarrow to Northgate at peal traffic times.
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FamousAgg
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In reply to Stucco • 7:50a, 3/4/23
Stucco said:
Is there no middle ground between free service and lack of service?
per the article COB has proposed paying per call


"On Thursday, the Bryan Fire Department said it would submit a plan to College Station that would suggest Bryan FD will provide an automatic ambulance response to the City of College Station for all life-threatening calls. In addition to that, the City of Bryan is offering College Station a guaranteed payment of $240 for each transport CSFD makes in Bryan."
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bee_mechanic
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10:53a, 3/4/23
There seems to be some interesting memory loss going on. I may be able to help!

Old station 3 was built on top of a hill and designed to face South so the football game folks from Houston could see into the bays. Unfortunately the nursery next door had common law use of the bar ditch and it had to be rotated 90.

Station one was moved out to wolfpen to help increase the feasibility of that whole park. It had to be moved back to old station one for a while because new station one was falling apart. Pretty untenable situation with all the medians which had been built mixed with Texas avenue traffic.

Station 4 was built for airport purposes and until recently was effectively useless to any non-aircraft owning/using citizen.

Station 6 was built recently. It shows off the power and might of the city to all who might gaze upon its mighty vestige... which of course includes a crap ton of Bryan citizens because it's built right on the border and along a major artery into Bryan.

College Station firehouse placement has never fully been about response. Tourism and opulence have always been part of the equation. Not to say such is wrong, but there's a lot more factors and they potentially work against response time. If you want your brand new fire station on University drive and Tarrow you can have it. You also get a bunch of automatic aid calls into Bryan.

During all this moving and shaking Bryan's fire trucks and medics were first into everything damn near past campus to include Northgate all night Friday and Saturday. 20 years of that service and not a peep..no speech to city council for immediate relief from these undo and unmanageable burdens. It seems like now that the shoe is on the other foot it deserves a modification to the agreement which guarantees it will be not accepted by Bryan. The terms as tendered by CoCS were never meant to be accepted.

TLDR: Stop the purse swinging: The chandelier is closer than you think. As a college station taxpayer I would ask my city council to work with Bryan. Stop making unreasonable demands which will result in both cities emergency response suffering. If I stroke out at Luby's I don't care what color ambulance shows up, just the quickest.
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BiochemAg97
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In reply to woodiewood1 • 11:10a, 3/4/23
AG
woodiewood1 said:
My suggestion would be for Bryan to build a fire station to serve the needs of their citizens in the Bryan Northgate to Hwy 6 area. The nearest ones are 4 to 5 miles away. It looks like the downtown station is the closest..

With all the growth in the Midtown area to Northgate, they need to put one farther south.


Yeah, find a part of CS that is close to Bryan but further from the exiting CS locations and drop a fire dept there. That would balance out the mutual aid discrepancy.
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gettingitdone
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In reply to mr83tr88 • 4:03p, 3/4/23
Uh no!!! A patient's insurance is billed first. The patient is billed for anything the insurance did not cover. If there is no insurance, the patient is billed.
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gettingitdone
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In reply to Roxie146 • 4:09p, 3/4/23
The mutual aid agreement is for ambulance services only, not fire.
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BringingChange
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In reply to bee_mechanic • 10:10p, 3/4/23
Or why does Bryan just add the additional ambulances needed to service its own city? Is it really that hard?

Bryan hasn't added an additional unit in at least ten years all while the population of Bryan has grown nearly 15%. As much as I would love the autoaid incase in 10 feet inside of Bryan city limits, I spend most of my time in CoCS and would like my ambulances to stay here so that if I need them, I'm not waiting an extended time.

Sounds like you're just a salty Bryan Firefighter
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FamousAgg
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In reply to BringingChange • 10:57p, 3/4/23
BringingChange said:


Bryan hasn't added an additional unit in at least ten years

False
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cslifer
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In reply to FamousAgg • 11:06p, 3/4/23
So when was the last ambulance they added?
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FamousAgg
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In reply to cslifer • 11:16p, 3/4/23
Medic 4 is service as of a few months ago
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cslifer
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In reply to FamousAgg • 11:20p, 3/4/23
Staffed 24/7?
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FamousAgg
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In reply to cslifer • 11:21p, 3/4/23
I can't swear to it, but I have seen them responding to calls.

I'll ask my people on the inside tomorrow
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PS3D
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In reply to bee_mechanic • 12:11a, 3/5/23
bee_mechanic said:
There seems to be some interesting memory loss going on. I may be able to help!

Old station 3 was built on top of a hill and designed to face South so the football game folks from Houston could see into the bays. Unfortunately the nursery next door had common law use of the bar ditch and it had to be rotated 90.

Station one was moved out to wolfpen to help increase the feasibility of that whole park. It had to be moved back to old station one for a while because new station one was falling apart. Pretty untenable situation with all the medians which had been built mixed with Texas avenue traffic.

Station 4 was built for airport purposes and until recently was effectively useless to any non-aircraft owning/using citizen.

Station 6 was built recently. It shows off the power and might of the city to all who might gaze upon its mighty vestige... which of course includes a crap ton of Bryan citizens because it's built right on the border and along a major artery into Bryan.

College Station firehouse placement has never fully been about response. Tourism and opulence have always been part of the equation. Not to say such is wrong, but there's a lot more factors and they potentially work against response time. If you want your brand new fire station on University drive and Tarrow you can have it. You also get a bunch of automatic aid calls into Bryan.

During all this moving and shaking Bryan's fire trucks and medics were first into everything damn near past campus to include Northgate all night Friday and Saturday. 20 years of that service and not a peep..no speech to city council for immediate relief from these undo and unmanageable burdens. It seems like now that the shoe is on the other foot it deserves a modification to the agreement which guarantees it will be not accepted by Bryan. The terms as tendered by CoCS were never meant to be accepted.

TLDR: Stop the purse swinging: The chandelier is closer than you think. As a college station taxpayer I would ask my city council to work with Bryan. Stop making unreasonable demands which will result in both cities emergency response suffering. If I stroke out at Luby's I don't care what color ambulance shows up, just the quickest.
Station 3 had to be moved because TxDOT reconfigured the frontage roads to be one way and that significantly increased response times because they had to go all the way down to Highway 40 and use the turnaround lane.
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UmustBKidding
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In reply to PS3D • 12:32p, 3/7/23
Yep true, only issue is that tx dot told cocs at least 10 years before they built 3 that one way frontage roads were going to happen.
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