taxpreparer said:

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happyinBCS said:

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so, you don't like to visit kids or grandkids at school

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What an odd reply and pivot from private property to public property. It does just illustrate the problem, though. Posted "gun free" zones just assure a bad actor that there will be minimum resistance to his evil.

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That's a good point. Bad guys see a no guns allowed sign and might feel more confident in shooting the place up.

cslifer said:

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Or maybe you could just respect everyone's' property and if they have a legal sign out don't bring a gun in? I know that is apparently a lot to ask.

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I read this entire thread and the question that's never asked/answered is, if you CSLifer actually do own a business and you put up these signs, what is your answer to a criminal gunman (or knife) that comes into your business & starts killing people?
Since your windows tell criminals this place is an easy target, at least until cops show up, which will be several minutes. The only possible answer to my question was someone stated the statistical probability of it happening in Brazos Co was next to zero, but it happened at Kent Moore cabinets recently, and a clerk was killed at the Valero station on RP & 6 last year or so.
So you want LTC people to respect your signs but won't admit in writing that criminals will also not respect your signs. Why make your customers be sitting ducks in a situation like that? If they have their LTC, they've passed a background check, have no felonies, owe no back child support, and most likely have training on how to use their gun.
I feel that you & a couple others are imagining wild west shootouts w/indiscriminate bullets flying around hitting everything. This isn't gang banger Chicago where that type of irresponsibility happens daily.
Here in Brazos Co, I'd bet over 95% of LTC holders would never draw their weapons unless the shooter was damn near on top of them. Most won't go chasing after or go out of their way to engage a shooter.
All we want is to not be defenseless.

Concealed means concealed. Folks are too focused on what they're shopping for or engrossed in their phones I highly doubt anyone would notice.

BluHorseShu said:

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techno-ag said:

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taxpreparer said:

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happyinBCS said:

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so, you don't like to visit kids or grandkids at school

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What an odd reply and pivot from private property to public property. It does just illustrate the problem, though. Posted "gun free" zones just assure a bad actor that there will be minimum resistance to his evil.

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That's a good point. Bad guys see a no guns allowed sign and might feel more confident in shooting the place up.

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Except just like the argument that if someone wants to harm people en masse, they might find a way even if they can't get a gun, if they are intent (even more likely if mentally ill/suicidal), I'm not sure they would care a sign allowing for arms on premise would deter them. The chances of someone on the premise with a weapon is also small. Currently there is little data that shows an armed officer would even be a deterrent, though it may save some lives.

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It's not just about deterring, it's also about stopping.

I will never understand why some people just want to be helpless.

Why do people always bring up the "posting a sign makes the bad guys think it is an easy target"? I challenge you to find a single incident where it has come up in a trial or investigation that a particular premise was chosen because of a handgun sign.
Let's look at the two examples you used. That Valero robber had robbed other gas stations and if I recall correctly shot someone else before. I guarantee you that he couldn't tell you if he saw a sign or not, or cared about it if he did. The Kent Moore guy obviously wouldn't have cared about who had a gun or not.
To me it comes down to respect the property owner and his right to not have carry on his property. Do you respect no smoking signs? How about those no shirt/no shoes no service signs? This is no different, the owner sets the rules for his property. If you don't like it go somewhere else.
ETA: If you are so worried about being defenseless, maybe go somewhere that you aren't scared to be without a gun.

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Let's look at the two examples you used. That Valero robber had robbed other gas stations and if I recall correctly shot someone else before. I guarantee you that he couldn't tell you if he saw a sign or not, or cared about it if he did. The Kent Moore guy obviously wouldn't have cared about who had a gun or not.

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Those instances are great examples of exactly why those signs are stupid. They stop law abiding citizens from being able to do anything.

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ETA: If you are so worried about being defenseless, maybe go somewhere that you aren't scared to be without a gun.

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Like a public school?

The difference is the nuance. If we define every shooting as including suicides at home, gang hits on a public street etc. then the percentage drops. But if we say mass shootings then yes you see schools, theaters, malls and other places that are gun free zones.