FlyRod said:

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For some reason you, and others, keep missing the central point...arguably at this point the only one that matters. If most people are wearing masks, the rate of transmission drops dramatically, Regardless of whether or not you are wearing an N95 mask.

For the Nth1000th time, it's not about protecting you, it's about protecting you and others.

The science is pretty firm on this by now, and yes of course it's your choice not to buy into it.

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Please cite this firm science and define "dramatically."

No. Because I'm familiar with what the kids call "sealioning," which is what you will certainly engage in. You can look up the studies on masks and transmission yourself. But you won't, and my sharing them will not convince you of their veracity.

Oh ok, what the hey:

http://files.fast.ai/papers/masks_lit_review.pdf

91_Aggie said:

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toolshed said:

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Ridiculous indeed!! I mean, the CDC must be wrong, right?

https://www.businessinsider.com/cdc-recommends-different-facial-hairstyles-work-better-with-face-masks-2020-2

My argument is less government intrusion. If you let them tell you to wear a mask, what else are you willing to let them tell you to do? Sit at the back of the bus? Drink from a different fountain? Those were deemed to be for the "greater good" born out of racism and utterly wrong. But the government and leaders mandated it, it was the law.

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Maybe I misjudged.
Let me ask you this.

The science currently says that wearing mask offers benefit to slowing the spread, and especially protects others (it's not necessarily to protect yourself).
Notice I didn't say it was 100% effective, but all the science so far says it will slow transmission.

Let me know if you agree or disagree with the above.

If you don't then I will stop debating with you since it's a lost cause to argue with someone who will say "the above is completely false and there is absolutely no benefit to wearing a mask, and I won't do it no matter how many scientists and doctors tell me I should"

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I believe it could be potentially effective. how much is debatable. I know there are papers and science data pre COVID that state masks are not as effective against this type of sickness or transmission. My wife, who's profession provides a deeper understanding of the data, read a paper the other day that touted masks. But when your read the supporting data at the bottom, they explained away the data that didn't support their argument. I don't recall the specifics.

I think saying you don't have to wear it in your private office is dumb. You all share the same air system, when the ac kicks on, everyone is breathing the same air. Sure it dissipates somewhat, the HVAC filter may catch a little bit of it. But "studies" two months ago said your cough could spread all the way across the supermarket and stay on a surface, viable for a week or more. Half the loopholes the government gives to their orders don't make sense.

My issue is that you can find data and papers, science to support whichever side you agree with. Could it slow transmission? Sure. How long do we wear them? As long as it takes? Until there are no more cases? If there are still cases, are we not asking for another spike by disallowing masks?

We've given over power to leaders who I believe pick and chose which science to listen to, as well as which science and information deemed worthy to share with the population. See Fauci who said masks didn't do anything three months ago. Either he knew they worked and lied to us so that primary care people could have enough equipment (another issue entirely) or he is lying now saying they work when he knows they don't.

They fudged the numbers up on cases and deaths the way they were counted early on so they get more funding from the government.

I don't believe for a second that these orders will expire when they say they will. My issue is that we've ceded power to people that have shown to make poor decisions. I don't trust the government and powers that be to make the best decisions for myself and my family.

So, forgot about government making you do it.

If there is some effectiveness which seems to be the case in other countries where citiizens voluntarily wore them for the sake of the common good and they are nowhere the per capita rates of us. Not because mandated. But because it seemed common sense and empathy for others was a higher priority in their lives than "Ain't no one gonna tell me what to do" mentality.

And all the arguments thrown out by those who refuse to wear masks are just either politcally based, conspiracy based, or just out right stubborness for no real reason other than to rebel for some unknown reason.

Don't wear a mask because the governor or mayor told you. Wear it to show compassion for your fellow citizens.

Bear a slight inconvenience. Be a bigger person. Do what is best overall for your city, for your state, for your country.

Quit being selfish. This is not a slippery slope to communism. It is common sense.

I believe I answered you above.

It's ok if we don't agree. And that's how it should be, in all things, this, politics, etc. People are allowed to have their own opinion.

I don't have to be "right" in your eyes and I'm ok with that. It doesn't make you the bigger person and it doesn't make me the bigger person.

That's all I have to say about it.

FlyRod said:

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No. Because I'm familiar with what the kids call "sealioning," which is what you will certainly engage in. You can look up the studies on masks and transmission yourself. But you won't, and my sharing them will not convince you of their veracity.

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um.... OK so, We're just supposed to take your word for it.... makes sense.

91_Aggie said:

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So, forgot about government making you do it.

If there is some effectiveness which seems to be the case in other countries where citiizens voluntarily wore them for the sake of the common good and they are nowhere the per capita rates of us. Not because mandated. But because it seemed common sense and empathy for others was a higher priority in their lives than "Ain't no one gonna tell me what to do" mentality.

And all the arguments thrown out by those who refuse to wear masks are just either politcally based, conspiracy based, or just out right stubborness for no real reason other than to rebel for some unknown reason.

Don't wear a mask because the governor or mayor told you. Wear it to show compassion for your fellow citizens.

Bear a slight inconvenience. Be a bigger person. Do what is best overall for your city, for your state, for your country.

Quit being selfish. This is not a slippery slope to communism. It is common sense.

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you just cant stop yourself, can you? does it make you feel better to belittle people online? wow.

cavscout96 said:

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91_Aggie said:

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So, forgot about government making you do it.

If there is some effectiveness which seems to be the case in other countries where citiizens voluntarily wore them for the sake of the common good and they are nowhere the per capita rates of us. Not because mandated. But because it seemed common sense and empathy for others was a higher priority in their lives than "Ain't no one gonna tell me what to do" mentality.

And all the arguments thrown out by those who refuse to wear masks are just either politcally based, conspiracy based, or just out right stubborness for no real reason other than to rebel for some unknown reason.

Don't wear a mask because the governor or mayor told you. Wear it to show compassion for your fellow citizens.

Bear a slight inconvenience. Be a bigger person. Do what is best overall for your city, for your state, for your country.

Quit being selfish. This is not a slippery slope to communism. It is common sense.

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you just cant stop yourself, can you? does it make you feel better to belittle people online? wow.

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Not going to address the actual question, then?
Just going to respond with a personal attack, it seems.

Wow.

See, it is not that hard to stoop to your form of debating a topic as well.

Each week with any said crisis, leadership becomes an overnight expert. It could be virus, riots, oak tree wilt, economic impact of closing business, green house effect.

legalbird said:

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Each week with any said crisis, leadership every person on this message board becomes an overnight expert. It could be virus, riots, oak tree wilt, economic impact of closing business, green house effect.

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FIFY


With respect to the mask mandate, no matter the decision a percentage of the populace is and will continue to be unhappy. A percentage of the population is also lacking in common sense.

With respect, it goes both ways.

For instance, person with mask on over their mouth and not their nose. Driving alone in a car with a mask on. Standing shoulder to shoulder protesting with no mask on.

If you are making multiple stops and don't have hand sanitizer or easy access to wash your hands, leaving your mask in place until you are done is the best practice.

Here is how a mask works.

Suppose you have the virus
You wear your mask and you cough (exhale, sneeze etc)
The water vapor in your lungs is expelled through your mouth and nose.
The dry mask absorbs the majority of that water vapor and thus "dramatically" cuts down on the viruses transmission.
You go home, you wash your mask.
The hot soapy water kills the virus in your mask.

Less COVID-19 in the air (as water vapor) less spread of the virus.

I have said this before, I do not know why people cannot wrap their heads around this simple concept.

91_Aggie said:

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cavscout96 said:

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91_Aggie said:

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cavscout96 said:

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91_Aggie said:

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So, forgot about government making you do it.

If there is some effectiveness which seems to be the case in other countries where citiizens voluntarily wore them for the sake of the common good and they are nowhere the per capita rates of us. Not because mandated. But because it seemed common sense and empathy for others was a higher priority in their lives than "Ain't no one gonna tell me what to do" mentality.

And all the arguments thrown out by those who refuse to wear masks are just either politcally based, conspiracy based, or just out right stubborness for no real reason other than to rebel for some unknown reason.

Don't wear a mask because the governor or mayor told you. Wear it to show compassion for your fellow citizens.

Bear a slight inconvenience. Be a bigger person. Do what is best overall for your city, for your state, for your country.

Quit being selfish. This is not a slippery slope to communism. It is common sense.

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you just cant stop yourself, can you? does it make you feel better to belittle people online? wow.

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Not going to address the actual question, then?
Just going to respond with a personal attack, it seems.

Wow.

See, it is not that hard to stoop to your form of debating a topic as well.

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where was the question in your post? looks like a directive/imperative to me. happy to answer actual question presented in good faith. otherwise, I'm done wasting my time with you.

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I actually do not know your stance. You seem to have taken offense to my stance of:
"Those who refuse to wear a mask because it is not 100% effective against stopping the wearer from getting Covid are not being honest for their reasons, and they do not have a good reason to wear not one"

And that is what toolshed started with the converation about beards and it getting in through your eyes. "Since the mask is not as effective in edge cases then we should not even wear them at all. "
Which goes against all common sense.

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Twisting my words a bit, but thanks for trying. My point was, if government can mandate you wear a mask, what happens if that doesn't slow the spread. Hypothetically, since masks are less effective with facial hair, do we allow government to tell us to shave, or what facial hair is acceptable. You know, to slow the spread, save lives and all. The point of my posts were government mandating things, taking freedoms a little at a time.

But you've twisted that to mean that I am adamantly anti mask, that I won't wear a mask, that I am selfish or have no common sense. I wear them when asked, I wore one this morning taking my son into his daycare. But yesterday, when we arrived at a restaurant to eat lunch, and the sign on the door said "Do not enter without a mask" we chose to take our business elsewhere, to a place that didn't require it to open the door and get a table. We also chose to sit outside, because science says you are less likely to get it outside. I am an adult, with thinking skills and can make choices based on the data available to move forward and care for myself and my family in a way that we safely chose to.

I am all for listening to science and following the guidelines. But what if I have a paper/ research that's different or opposite of yours? Who do we go with? The one that is safer/ more proactive? Do we apply the same logic to driving? I mean, if no one drives, it would save thousands of lives every year to auto accidents. Even if we ration driving, and say you can only drive 2-3 times a week, it would save lives. Nobody swimming would save thousands of lives every year to drowning.

Again, I don't agree with you 100%, but I do agree with some things you have said. Again, that's OK if we don't agree 100%. You've called them "edge cases" but provided no statistics to back up that claim. I don't blindly follow logic because someone calls it truth.

Vehicle accidents result in filling ICU beds.


Local government needs to stop automobiles, aircraft, and bicycle transportation immediately.


It is still OK to walk but you should be required to have My Pillow's wrapped around you.

doubledog said:

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Here is how a mask works.

Suppose you have the virus
You wear your mask and you cough (exhale, sneeze etc)
The water vapor in your lungs is expelled through your mouth and nose.
The dry mask absorbs the majority of that water vapor and thus "dramatically" cuts down on the viruses transmission.
You go home, you wash your mask.
The hot soapy water kills the virus in your mask.

Less COVID-19 in the air (as water vapor) less spread of the virus.

I have said this before, I do not know why people cannot wrap their heads around this simple concept.

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That sounds great, but studies are not supportive of this at all.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7153751/

If you think anything but N95 will stop a virus from spreading with cough or sneeze it just doesn't seem to be proven.

Now it likely decreases the range of the spread as you mentioned, but don't have a false sense of confidence especially if you are symptomatic.

Anonymous Source said:

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Have there been days with 100+ reported car accidents in B/CS?

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No, and there haven't been days with 100+ reported hospitalizations from COVID-19 either.


I bet over the last 2 months there have been more ambulance trips locally due to car accidents than due to COVID-19.

KidDoc said:

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doubledog said:

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Here is how a mask works.

Suppose you have the virus
You wear your mask and you cough (exhale, sneeze etc)
The water vapor in your lungs is expelled through your mouth and nose.
The dry mask absorbs the majority of that water vapor and thus "dramatically" cuts down on the viruses transmission.
You go home, you wash your mask.
The hot soapy water kills the virus in your mask.

Less COVID-19 in the air (as water vapor) less spread of the virus.

I have said this before, I do not know why people cannot wrap their heads around this simple concept.

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That sounds great, but studies are not supportive of this at all.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7153751/

If you think anything but N95 will stop a virus from spreading with cough or sneeze it just doesn't seem to be proven.

Now it likely decreases the range of the spread as you mentioned, but don't have a false sense of confidence especially if you are symptomatic.

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You linked to an article that has a huge watermark across the front of the article with "RETRACTED"
and has this text twice in it:
This article has been retracted.
Retraction in: Ann Intern Med. 2020 June 2; : L20-0745 See also: PMC Retraction Policy

Geez!
Again, I don't think anyone is saying any kind of mask stops the spread 100%. But there is evidence and studies that it slows the spread and offers some protection.

KidDoc said:

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doubledog said:

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Here is how a mask works.

Suppose you have the virus
You wear your mask and you cough (exhale, sneeze etc)
The water vapor in your lungs is expelled through your mouth and nose.
The dry mask absorbs the majority of that water vapor and thus "dramatically" cuts down on the viruses transmission.
You go home, you wash your mask.
The hot soapy water kills the virus in your mask.

Less COVID-19 in the air (as water vapor) less spread of the virus.

I have said this before, I do not know why people cannot wrap their heads around this simple concept.

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That sounds great, but studies are not supportive of this at all.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7153751/

If you think anything but N95 will stop a virus from spreading with cough or sneeze it just doesn't seem to be proven.

Now it likely decreases the range of the spread as you mentioned, but don't have a false sense of confidence especially if you are symptomatic.

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Once again it is just common sense.

COVID-19 is spread by water vapor (respiratory droplets). The virus does not fly around by itself. A mask or any dry cloth will absorb almost all of the vapor (try this your self with a spray bottle and a piece of cloth).

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/faq.html

If the vapor is trapped by the cloth then so is the virus. Of course you need to wear the mask correctly AND once in a while swap it out for a dry mask, but the principle is sound.

I was anti mask for a long time as I'm not sick. However, I never begrudged anyone for wearing one. I was never "shamed" by anyone, either, except my Shiite Democrat sister in law and her husband in Austin.

But I am alarmed at the numbers going up and am willing to do my part even if that means I don't agree with it as I'm not sick. I'm wearing a mask when I go out much to the disappointment of my glasses which always get fogged up. I feel like one of the nerds in Sixteen Candles.

If the numbers continue to go up even with mask ordinances, things will get interesting.

But I am still wearing a mask when I go out these days.

Damn China. Wankers.

If you twist the ear elastics, it'll help the fogging. Creates a better seal for your face.

new straw said:

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If you twist the ear elastics, it'll help the fogging. Creates a better seal for your face.

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Sweet niblets- that works pretty good.