School in the Fall? CSISD and BISD

10,497 Views | 51 Replies | Last: 8 days ago by Jinx
Aggiewife64
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Whatcha think

Online or in person for CSISD and BryanISD


[We have cleaned up this thread as much as possible to keep it on topic regarding the local school districts. We realize that the decisions of TAMU may have influence but the posts and discussion should be primarily about the public schools in our area. Thank you. -Staff]
Rapier108
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If our local leaders continue with their extreme risk adverse behavior, it will be online.

The only thing that might force it to be in person will be if A&M goes back to regular classes.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
Jinx
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I have one starting Kinder this fall and I'm curious as well. I assume at this point they have several plans and are waiting as long as they can to pull the trigger on any of them. We are all experiencing this together, I get that, but I am so hoping we get to have our "first day of school" experience.
Stupe
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S
Rapier108 said:

If our local leaders continue with their extreme risk adverse behavior, it will be online.

The only thing that might force it to be in person will be if A&M goes back to regular classes.
If they continue with their behavior, they need to be voted out.
nthomas99
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AG
Aggiewife64 said:

Whatcha think

Online or in person for CSISD and BryanISD

With no inside information, I'm guessing some kind of modified in person beginning in the fall. What exactly that looks like, I don't. Inevitably, they'll feel compelled to distance the kids a bit. So I don't know if they'll alternate days, spread into the gym, have a shorter days, or what.

Even with that, I'd say there's an 80%+ change that sometime in the academic year, they'll dismiss classes as covid peaks, ebbs, and flows.

All of that coupled with the "don't worry, we'll catch them up" attitude, and lack of progress improving over these last few weeks as we've continued guided homeschooling, makes me wonder if it'll even be an education worth anything with the choppiness next semester for elementary / intermediate kids. And I don't mean this necessarily as a jab at the district (CSISD for me, though I think they dropped the ball some during this crisis). They just aren't configured for this type of situation and bureaucracy seems to rule at district and state level.

Wonder if hiring a tutor and taking the year off of public school while things stabilize would be the best option overall. I don't know.

In any case, I wish they'd show their hand sooner rather than later (even if it's not set in stone as things evolve). It'd help a lot of us make some important decisions.
1.618
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What kind of liability does the school district or TAMU have if a cluster of covid-19 is identified within the school even with the safety protocols in place should someone be permanently disabled or dies? Would that be an act of God? A foreseeable outcome? Is that a liability that the school district could insure against and transfer the financial risk? If a teacher, would that be a workplace injury? I'm not sure but I'll bet the attorneys are working on it and factoring that in to their open/don't open plan.

My guess is that online instruction continues into the Fall semester for the ISDs and probably for TAMU as well. Or maybe we get a vaccine or therapeutic this summer but I'm not holding my breath on that miracle occurring.
Aggie
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AG
If classs don't resume as normal in the fall then ... what we are going thru now is gonna basically be the way of life permantly.
Covid 19 is not going anywhere, once we have a vaccine it still is not going to magically change everything.
We have a flu vaccine and thousands die from the flu everywhere.

As I have said in other post it's beyind ridiculous to keep things shut down at this point, knowing what we know.

If you're 75 with diabetes then yeah your way of life is permanently changed, if you're not then it has shown this virus is not a huge threat to you and it's time for our normal society to return.
katlong
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If things open normally on the ISD level, it will be interesting to see how things go to say the least. Because right now, if you are in known contact with someone that has it, the recommendation is to stay home for 14 days.

So if a child in your kid's class tests positive, is everyone in that class now home for 14 days? Carry on as normal unless symptomatic? What will the procedure be?
Oogway
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There certainly can be an advantage to smaller class sizes, especially in K-12 education. Without going and looking up sources due to time constraints, student outcomes generally improve with a lower ratio of teacher to student numbers. So if social distancing created a classroom of 15 third graders instead of 30, it might have other advantages.

But it comes at a cost both financial and physical. Imagine an elementary (I'll use any CSISD elem campus). Normally the population of students is around 600-660. Although classroom numbers vary, lets average it out to 30. So now half that. Do you run a split schedule of one teacher in the morning with 15 students and a different teacher in the afternoon with fifteen more with a break in between for custodial cleaning and when each teacher is physically off campus is zooming for the remaining hours? That's going to take some doing, but it would allow for either a complete morning or afternoon of several hours with 15 students. The greater problem with this schedule no matter the advantages to students and irrespective of costs is the child care for working parents.

Or does one open all campuses up knowing that some patients are asymptomatic and if people get sick, have a robust substitute list so that hopefully the students don't fall farther behind? It is essentially what is done now, but if COVID requires longer recovery for some and/or a quarantine is required, that is two weeks with a sub at minimum. Many substitutes are great teachers but it sure isn't an easy time to step in to a classroom right now.

Who knows what they will come up with.
scs01
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Oogway said:


But it comes at a cost both financial and physical. Imagine an elementary (I'll use any CSISD elem campus). Normally the population of students is around 600-660. Although classroom numbers vary, lets average it out to 30. So now half that. Do you run a split schedule of one teacher in the morning with 15 students and a different teacher in the afternoon with fifteen more with a break in between for custodial cleaning and when each teacher is physically off campus is zooming for the remaining hours? That's going to take some doing, but it would allow for either a complete morning or afternoon of several hours with 15 students. The greater problem with this schedule no matter the advantages to students and irrespective of costs is the child care for working parents.

Your scenario envisions 50% occupancy of classrooms, but I'm hearing rumblings of more like 20-30% at A&M. I know a lot of articles are floating around out there, but I found this one interesting and to the extent it's accurate also relevant to this question:

https://www.erinbromage.com/post/the-risks-know-them-avoid-them


It indicates that the most likely scenarios for group spread occur when people are together in a confined space for a long period of time. Classrooms fit that bill. What isn't clear to me is how much spreading people out and having them wear masks will help--both probably do, the question is more how much.
Abbyag06
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As much as I want life to get back to normal there are too many factors to consider. I'm in my 40's with an 8th grader going into high school, I have asthma and my 74 year old MIL lives with us. So if school resumes in the fall, she is in a building with 1500 other students and staff, and then comes home to us. Hopefully it wouldn't affect her but she is asympathetic and comes home and shares it with us. My mom has COPD and a wealth of other health issues. Until more studies can be done and a vaccine available, I think social distancing and home learning is the best option for us. You can go out and eat and shop, just in smaller groups for a while. That to me is well worth some additional months of us lying low while scientists are hard at work to help avoid thousands of additional people to die from it. People need to look at the big picture of mankind, not just themselves. Lets get back to being kind and considerate of each other.
Oogway
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It may seem disingenuous to you, but without having been present during your face to face conversation with them, I cannot say whether I agree.

He/she offered you an opinion with which you disagree based on your perspective. But to be clear, you are saying that because this person is not financially devastated by the shutdown, they are naive and cannot understand yours? Perhaps they might argue the same of you. I've witnessed a number of people over social media argue that life has risks and death comes for everyone. Their detractors cry that so does business. Neither of those statements are necessarily false, but they allow people to talk past one another.

However, that is a conversation best had between you and this specific person as it is a time when one can ask questions and listen to the response and perhaps understand each other better.


Going back to school, however, the university is going to cobble something together and I can practically guarantee you that no matter what, open, close, partially open, partially closed, football open everything else closed (yeah, right) someone is going to be unhappy. Seems to be the way things work.

Carnwellag2
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Oogway said:

It may seem disingenuous to you, but without having been present during your face to face conversation with them, I cannot say whether I agree.

He/she offered you an opinion with which you disagree based on your perspective. But to be clear, you are saying that because this person is not financially devastated by the shutdown, they are naive and cannot understand yours? Perhaps they might argue the same of you. I've witnessed a number of people over social media argue that life has risks and death comes for everyone. Their detractors cry that so does business. Neither of those statements are necessarily false, but they allow people to talk past one another.




hold up. logically, the outcries for people unaffected economically to keep things shutdown has a direct impact on other people's economic well being. It doesn't leave a viable choice for those out of work or business owners not allowed to open.

The opposite is saying let us reopen and have a chance to earn a living. If other people don't want to come to our store or teach a class, that is certainly their CHOICE.

But give everyone the CHOICE!

Oogway
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If I were to be asked, it would not be for schools to stay shut down. I do advocate for testing availability and rigorous contact tracing if possible. As far as the schools K-12, as hard as it will be for some families that have vulnerable populations, I would advocate for campus and district special services to step in and assist those families in achieving learning objectives while remaining as sheltered as possible while everyone else would attend on campus. It might mean some compromises and shifting around, but I don't advocate for an all or nothing approach.
CS78
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The more wishy washy the plan, I think the more parents are going to choose other options like full blown home school. The schools are sending out emails asking parents what our plan is for our children attending public school next year. The verbiage seems to indicate a certain level of panic about a potential significant drop in attendance. Without a commitment that the schools will be fully functioning, don't expect a commitment to attend from many parents. The longer that takes, the more painful the result could be.
Jinx
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I love that this thread was specifically started re: BISD and CISD but it became yet another A&M thread. I get that it is a big part of our community, just wish there was a way to filter it out. And before anyone says it, yes I know it is likely they will take some policy from the university, but a lot of the discussion re: professors and online classes, dorms etc doesn't really have anything to do with the local primary and secondary schools.


[We agree and we are going to do our best to keep it public school focused after the clean up. -Staff]
4lilmonkeys
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CS78 said:

The more wishy washy the plan, I think the more parents are going to choose other options like full blown home school. The schools are sending out emails asking parents what our plan is for our children attending public school next year. The verbiage seems to indicate a certain level of panic about a potential significant drop in attendance. Without a commitment that the schools will be fully functioning, don't expect a commitment to attend from many parents. The longer that takes, the more painful the result could be.
We are among those considering homeschool in the fall. Not because we are scared of the virus, we just do not feel confident in CSISD moving forward (right now). We know a lot can change between now and then and obviously there are a ton of things to consider before making the jump. But it's certainly on the table right now.

For anyone who is interested, a friend sent this to me over the weekend. It's a Power Point of what the TEA is considering moving into the 2020-2021 school year. From what I can tell it is just a proposal for interested districts and not something absolutely being implemented across the board. You can download the doc here and determine for yourself what you think, I'm just sharing the info:

https://tea.texas.gov/media/document/274191?fbclid=IwAR3i2UtXq4SQDXRjlZxKn-CPIVTFcXIt9i-ftW8FcbQi8CpYYwPjHrbzOdM
Rapier108
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President Fauci wants schools to stay shut down, at least the rest of the calendar year.

This will be all the excuse some school districts need to stay closed indefinitely.
"If you will not fight for right when you can easily win without blood shed; if you will not fight when your victory is sure and not too costly; you may come to the moment when you will have to fight with all the odds against you and only a precarious chance of survival. There may even be a worse case. You may have to fight when there is no hope of victory, because it is better to perish than to live as slaves." - Sir Winston Churchill
nthomas99
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4lilmonkeys said:

CS78 said:

The more wishy washy the plan, I think the more parents are going to choose other options like full blown home school. The schools are sending out emails asking parents what our plan is for our children attending public school next year. The verbiage seems to indicate a certain level of panic about a potential significant drop in attendance. Without a commitment that the schools will be fully functioning, don't expect a commitment to attend from many parents. The longer that takes, the more painful the result could be.
We are among those considering homeschool in the fall. Not because we are scared of the virus, we just do not feel confident in CSISD moving forward (right now). We know a lot can change between now and then and obviously there are a ton of things to consider before making the jump. But it's certainly on the table right now.

For anyone who is interested, a friend sent this to me over the weekend. It's a Power Point of what the TEA is considering moving into the 2020-2021 school year. From what I can tell it is just a proposal for interested districts and not something absolutely being implemented across the board. You can download the doc here and determine for yourself what you think, I'm just sharing the info:

https://tea.texas.gov/media/document/274191?fbclid=IwAR3i2UtXq4SQDXRjlZxKn-CPIVTFcXIt9i-ftW8FcbQi8CpYYwPjHrbzOdM

Great link, thanks.

"2020-2021 is likely to include short-term disruptions".

That line alone confirms what I had been thinking would be likely (gov't officials on a hair trigger to shut things down again if deemed necessary) and is the biggest reason I'm increasingly leaning towards pulling my three kids out of the district for at least the next year.

I don't want rehash what CSISD could or should have done better in the current environment, but looking forward to a mix of this interspersed with some modified (smaller classes, staggering A-M and N-Z on different days, who knows what else) in person instruction certainly doesn't seem to be a winning formula at all for education and the choppiness of it all probably outweighs the social interaction benefits. I expect less play / interaction time for kids with each other and I assume most all extra-curricular clubs, etc will be cancelled. I've begun putting out feelers for a tutor/instructor to potentially help us facilitate this.
watcholady
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How old are your students? We have done a variety of homeschool coops and programs, some with certified teachers and some with parent volunteers. The homeschooling community in B/CS is large and varied.

Also, I think it's helpful to add that what we are all currently experiencing is more pandemic-crisis-schooling than homeschooling. Homeschooling is also changing because of this shelter-in-place, maybe not as drastically, but my kids aren't used to being stuck at home without in-person social interaction for months at a time. We are all growing weary of Zoom classes. But, if you are truly exploring homeschooling, I can point you toward some ideas and resources.
katlong
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Not sure if already posted, but TEA is proposing alternate calendars. Wild!

https://tea.texas.gov/sites/default/files/Adjusting_School_Calendars.pptx
RGRAg1/75
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katlong said:

Not sure if already posted, but TEA is proposing alternate calendars. Wild!

https://tea.texas.gov/sites/default/files/Adjusting_School_Calendars.pptx

To me, this is just them preempting what will surely be the vocal minority. There will be soccer moms threatening to sue school boards/school districts all over the country when little jimmy comes home with a runny nose.
katlong
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Maybe. It's hard for me to understand putting lots of energy and momentum into these things for them to just say "all good, be normal". Nothing would surprise me at this point.

I'd like districts to work on the more day to day stuff...like the predicted policy for when a kid tests positive. Right now if exposed, the recommendation is to be home for 14 days. Does that mean the whole class is home for 14 days if a single positive pops up? So many questions.
RGRAg1/75
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katlong said:

like the predicted policy for when a kid tests positive. Right now if exposed, the recommendation is to be home for 14 days. Does that mean the whole class is home for 14 days if a single positive pops up? So many questions.

Those COAs are too difficult to work through without considering fallout from parents for each and every case being priority #1 (let's face it, actual safety of the students will be #2 behind that for admin). As long as fear continues to be seeded, people will not act rationally with their children.

The news headlines about mysterious illnesses and rashes and hospitalizations in the youth cohort will ensure there's resistance by a very vocal minority to get school back to normal. Nevermind the usual illnesses that pop up each and every school year from putting a bunch of snotty noses in the same small room, everything will be COVID.
cavscout96
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katlong said:

Maybe. It's hard for me to understand putting lots of energy and momentum into these things for them to just say "all good, be normal". Nothing would surprise me at this point.

I'd like districts to work on the more day to day stuff...like the predicted policy for when a kid tests positive. Right now if exposed, the recommendation is to be home for 14 days. Does that mean the whole class is home for 14 days if a single positive pops up? So many questions.
A thought on this.

How can the school be held liable, aside from gross negligence?

No one is forcing parents to send their kids to public school, or even private schools.

If those schools operate with reasonable risk management and mitigation, known and understood by the parent, and the parent decides to allow their child to attend, how can the school be held liable?

Parents have other options, any reasonable person should understand the associated risk, particularly if those are explained , in detail to the parents.

----------------------------

As to the quarantine in particular, I'd say it's likely that the entire classroom might be asked to self quarantine for a period.


Oogway
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Wired recently had an interesting opinion essay titled, The Case for Reopening Schools. It discussed some of the pros and cons, and also compared the US to other countries. Apparently the US is rare in keeping them closed.

Here is the link if you'd care to read and think about it:
https://www.wired.com/story/the-case-for-reopening-schools/#intcid=recommendations_wired-homepage-right-rail-popular_9325e80e-541b-4f6a-bdf7-67db079b5752_popular4-1

Dr. Anthony Fauci was recently quoted regarding schools here:


Quote:

"In terms of this case the idea of having treatments available or a vaccine to facilitate the reentry of students into the fall term would be something that would be a bit of a bridge too far," Fauci said.

Fauci clarified later in the briefing that he didn't mean to imply that school shouldn't resume in the fall without a vaccine or treatment. He added that the decision to reopen should be based on the dynamics of the outbreak in that area.

Many people have been upset because they read or see the first quote, and some media outlets cut off the second part of his statement and clarification. I've witnessed it in media sources both left and right leaning and doesn't necessarily have to be 'spin,' but can also be for space limitations. But, it is probably the more important part of his statement. Especially because he is not wrong: there is unlikely to be a vaccine ready by fall, and even if there were, convincing certain parents that it would be required for school entry would be an uphill climb given the current atmosphere. That doesn't mean that schools should stay closed. It simply means that what is best for Caldwell ISD might not work for New York city where children often ride the subway to school.

This is from earlier last month:

Quote:

"While it is not a certainty, it is likely that schools will be able to reopen in the fall, said Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, on Tuesday.

"I fully expect though I'm humble enough that I can't accurately predict that by the time we get to the fall that we will have this under control enough, that it certainly will not be the way it is now where people are shutting schools,"

TxFig
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[We are going to keep this on topic about the public districts. -Staff]
TellMeMore
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I'll just leave this hear from yesterday's Senate hearing


https://www.c-span.org/video/?c4875262/user-clip-rand-paul-covid19-exposure-immunity
GeographyAg
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AG
I don't have a student in school in CS, but we own property there and our grandchildren will someday attend there.

I wish someone could send the School Board members this article to consider: https://www.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/blog/hunting-down-covid-19/

Quote:

Children under 10 are less likely to get infected than adults and if they get infected, they are less likely to get seriously ill. What is interesting is that even if children do get infected, they are less likely to transmit the disease to others than adults. We have not found a single instance of a child infecting parents.
If I’m posting, it’s actually Mrs GeographyAg.
Mr. GeographyAg is a dedicated lurker.
Oogway
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That info was included in the link I posted a few up from this (prior to the thread clean up). Within the Wired article they not only mention that, they include the link to the New England Journal of Medicine study so one can read it for themselves.

Considering that children can sometimes have a difficult time remembering to practice the social hygiene required to reduce transmission of ANY disease, this might be one little blessing from this pandemic.
Tailgate88
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AG

https://www.kbtx.com/content/news/Texas-Education-Agency-suggests-districts-make-changes-to-2020-2021-school-year-570453761.html

The TEA has suggested various options including some that would be extremely disruptive...

Quote:

TEA has laid out some options for districts that choose to change their calendar year. Those include moving to a year-long school year, adding 30 days to the end of the school year, or giving longer breaks throughout the school year to help students catch up.
...but so far it seems local districts do not seem to be planning on any radical changes.
Quote:

Both districts say they don't foresee any major changes happening to the calendar year they already have in place. One option discussed with both superintendents was using professional development days as additional instructional days.

Whitbeck and Martindale say they plan to continue working with the district and school board to do what makes sense for parents and students.
Let's just hope whatever changes are made at districts across the state don't cause too much disruption in sports and UIL activities.
Stupe
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S
When I talk to people about school, I'm generally noticing a distinct difference of opinion in those of us that have kids in extracurricular activities and those that don't when it comes to the school schedule.
CS78
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Not surprising. Our kids are too young for most extracurricular stuff. We heavily favor the expanded schedules with large breaks in the middle. Gives more chances to schedule family time and short vacations together.
Stupe
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S
Those of us with kids that get to school before sunrise, get home after dark, make good grades and have spent summers scheduling vacations around training think that they deserve their seasons, contests, and concerts.

Especially the juniors and seniors to be.
Jinx
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Stupe said:

Those of us with kids that get to school before sunrise, get home after dark, make good grades and have spent summers scheduling vacations around training think that they deserve their seasons, contests, and concerts.

Especially the juniors and seniors to be.
Why would the change to school year affect these things? I'm genuinely curious, not trying to rile anyone up. There are plenty of extracurricular activities that had "summer camps" and that sort of thing when I was in school. Could they not continue practices and such "extra" during breaks if they went that route?
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