Harvey Mitchell (2818) @ Holleman Plans

4,256 Views | 30 Replies | Last: 6 mo ago by PS3D
jello123
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http://wtaw.com/2019/01/24/update-highways-streets-sidewalks-part-chamber-conference/?fbclid=IwAR0ZelP-FDImA5tsAZq6Kd8rQT-cCeT2k3F3QoQlqxXYG02eilg-7nRDFXM
95_Aggie
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AG
Sure wish they would do an overpass. At 5pm it bottlenecks traffic all the way to George Bush ... and sometimes worse.
SARATOGA
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Sure wish they'd be proactive rather than reactive.
sonar99
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Over pass is 85$ mil... what they plan is around 25$ mil.... they would love to do overpass but is cost is major factor.....
CS78
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sonar99 said:

Over pass is 85$ mil... what they plan is around 25$ mil.... they would love to do overpass but is cost is major factor.....
How much is that cluster of a diverging diamond just up the road costing? That money could have gone a long ways to fixing a real problem. And before you mention accidents at that intersection, there are more and worse accidents involving the Holleman intersection. Heck, I even had my truck totaled as a result of the diverging diamond construction. But of course overpass doesn't sound near as progressive as "diverging diamond".
aggiepublius
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AG
There was absolutely no way to do an overpass there and space is limited. TXDOT decided to do the new fangled out of limited options.
CS78
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aggiepublius said:

There was absolutely no way to do an overpass there and space is limited. TXDOT decided to do the new fangled out of limited options.
I was speaking to using the diverging diamond money to the much more needed Holleman overpass.
prymetyme07
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That cluster of a diverging diamond has significantly reduced the amount of major accidents we run to that intersection' so I would say it's working extremely well.
Stupe
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S
Quote:

How much is that cluster of a diverging diamond just up the road costing?
The way that traffic flows through that and the reduction of accidents has made me more open to some of the "new fangled" traffic designs.

That thing is a breeze for anyone that can follow an arrow.
sonar99
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On time and on budget....call txdot and ask them......
BrandonC
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City just isn't designed to handle this many people. But hey let's keep on adding more students and apartments. Genius
Expert Analysis
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AG
sonar99 said:

Over pass is 85$ mil... what they plan is around 25$ mil.... they would love to do overpass but is cost is major factor.....
your numbers are way off, but cost is the sole reason for not putting in an overpass. I'm not sure how much they even thought about an overpass as it was not an option in the detailed traffic analysis that looked at delay and safety. TxDOT and COCS screwed it up before (they should have grade separated Jones-Butler when they did the 2818 and Welborn work) and they are screwing it up again. There are issues along the whole corridor, the proposed plan will address them. They could have modified the proposed plan to allow for the grade separation at Holleman, and provided higher traffic flow and greater safety for only a few million more. They choose to not use funds effectively. There is so much money wasted by the agencies every year.
Stupe
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S
BrandonC said:

City just isn't designed to handle this many people. But hey let's keep on adding more students and apartments. Genius
I agree. The city needs to stop adding students!
techno-ag
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AG
Expert Analysis said:

sonar99 said:

Over pass is 85$ mil... what they plan is around 25$ mil.... they would love to do overpass but is cost is major factor.....
your numbers are way off, but cost is the sole reason for not putting in an overpass. I'm not sure how much they even thought about an overpass as it was not an option in the detailed traffic analysis that looked at delay and safety. TxDOT and COCS screwed it up before (they should have grade separated Jones-Butler when they did the 2818 and Welborn work) and they are screwing it up again. There are issues along the whole corridor, the proposed plan will address them. They could have modified the proposed plan to allow for the grade separation at Holleman, and provided higher traffic flow and greater safety for only a few million more. They choose to not use funds effectively. There is so much money wasted by the agencies every year.

Obligatory:

CJHajda
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AG
It's my understanding that effectively, in terms of long range planning, what they are about to start building with the 2818 widening are the frontage roads that will accommodate a freeway in the future down the middle of the road which will give us the overpasses. So while an overpass isn't immediately on the docket, it will be in the future and there will be minimum disruption and decent cost savings since they won't have to rip out very much old roadway if any at all.
Expert Analysis
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AG
That sounds great until you realize that overpass isnt planned on being built for 30 years.
CJHajda
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AG
Which is why I used phrases such as "long range planning" and "in the future"
Stupe
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S
It's going to be fun watching people argue with Expert.
aginresearch
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AG
I know I've posted this before but I'll do it again: TXDOT offered to front the cost of the overpass at Holleman and 2818 when the Wellborn interchange was built. COCS declined the offer. For sure the city would have been obligated to pay it back but the option was floated.
95_Aggie
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AG
It's not the first ... or last ... traffic planning error the COCS has made.
duffelpud
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AG
How much would two ramps cost?

"What's this button do?"
Expert Analysis
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AG
Yes, but those are just words subject to interpretation. I was just providing the actual value that is planned.
Expert Analysis
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AG
aginresearch said:

I know I've posted this before but I'll do it again: TXDOT offered to front the cost of the overpass at Holleman and 2818 when the Wellborn interchange was built. COCS declined the offer. For sure the city would have been obligated to pay it back but the option was floated.

Not the exact story I heard, but not far from it either. Either way its a mess that has caused significant delay and many accidents. The only way to fix it is to write the city and txdot.
Heismenberg
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AG
Been saying forever that they need an overpass there. And there's no way it would cost $85 million. It's best to avoid that intersection like the plague during rush hours. Imagine putting a traffic light on Hwy 6. That's about what that intersection is like.
jhaero
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AG
At least there are plans to help out at Jones Butler.

https://www.kbtx.com/content/news/Transportation-officials-planning-new-Jones-Butler-Road-extension-under-FM-2818-505416221.html
Expert Analysis
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AG
jhaero said:

At least there are plans to help out at Jones Butler.

https://www.kbtx.com/content/news/Transportation-officials-planning-new-Jones-Butler-Road-extension-under-FM-2818-505416221.html


This is what should have been done 10 years ago when they did the wellborn interchange. Instead they chose to design holleman like they did, then a couple years later redesign the new section because it was insufficient, now they are talking about this after txdot came up with their 2818 redesign. When I had previously heard about this, I though it was a joke. You do not need a full intersection at holleman if jones butler gets used properly (there is already one grade separated lane there that is completely wasted).
If cocs and the mpo can come up with 5mil now, which is 2x what they were asked to provide 10+ years ago and this new design will not be as good as what would have occured if all segments in the area were designed at the same time, then why the heck can they not work with txdot to fix the holleman situation? You would all cringe at the amount of money the mpo has, and what it gets spent on.

Here is an idea, how about a singular vision for our roadways where involved agencies work together! Instead we get the MPO wasting money doing a study and txdot and cocs redesigning the same damn areas.
etmydst
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AG
Username definitely does not checkout.
bcstx06
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May be a little off topic, but what is that new building at the corner of 2818 and Holeman? It looks like a neighborhood pharmacy or maybe an Aldi or Lidl.
Expert Analysis
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AG
Its ok, you can support poor decision making. You think its wasteful spending to make 2818 a freeway, I agree. It just needs a grade separation at holleman/jones butler and super street design along the rest of the segment for all I care. Do you think it is a good idea to be doing these two projects at the same time instead of doing one better project?
Heismenberg
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AG
bcstx06 said:

May be a little off topic, but what is that new building at the corner of 2818 and Holeman? It looks like a neighborhood pharmacy or maybe an Aldi or Lidl.


I think I remember seeing a sign a long time ago that it was going to be a gym/fitness center. I could be wrong though.
PS3D
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Heismenberg said:

bcstx06 said:

May be a little off topic, but what is that new building at the corner of 2818 and Holeman? It looks like a neighborhood pharmacy or maybe an Aldi or Lidl.


I think I remember seeing a sign a long time ago that it was going to be a gym/fitness center. I could be wrong though.
I've been driving that road since it opened and I think from what planning documents indicated (talking about a grease trap, etc.) that it would be a strip center with a restaurant.
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