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Rezoning front and center in csisd election

Tigermom84
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I watched the KAMU candidate forum, and I have to say, some things that school board candidate Kyle Barrington said are just alarming. First of all, in his first minute, he said "we have to rezone our schools" THREE times. He said "we will never have permanent boundaries". He also said the "community wanted the board to make all the [boundary] decisions" which is why the board created FC Local, the policy we now use to rezone. I was unaware that the "community" wanted to opt out of having a say in rezoning??? He went on further to say he would change that rezoning policy 4 ways (I'm paraphrasing here): 1) creating parent committees from each school to partake in the boundary discussion, 2) move the discussion date up 2 months to October instead of December, 3) grandfather current 8th graders IN THE FUTURE and 4) allow the board to override grandfathering the 8th graders with a majority vote (I'm still scratching my head on those last 2 as the majority of the board voted against grandfathering this spring). Then he said again in his conclusion that we will have to rezone a lot in the future. This guy seems like a 1 issue candidate, and he's got a love affair with rezoning.

Oh yeah, his 2nd issue is that he is against single member districts because they "divide a community up". But rezoning over and over will bring the community together? Especially when the board is only representing a couple of neighborhoods in town, and those conveniently never get rezoned. Will parent committees from each school make everyone play nice during rezoning and bring the community back together? I'm highly skeptical.
Wicked Good Ag
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I don't see why people don't think rezoning will occur consistently. Every time a new school opens up regardless of what level you have to rezone. The level and how much and who it effects will be different each time. This town is growing rapidly. Maybe way to rapidly for business/ schools to keep up.
When southern pointe opens up whenever that is with 2400 plus homes don't you think that will have a huge effect of school boundaries? And that doesn't include the west side of College Station

91_Aggie
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Yep. Rezoning needs to happen. It is absolutley ridiculous that we have one high school at 85% capacity and a 2nd one at 110%+ capacity.

Common sense needs to trump parents who are only worried about a perceived idea that one school is more prestigious than the other one.
TaterTot_09
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I haven't had a chance to catch this latest forum but I have caught a few of the others. He speaks well but definitely dodges real questions. He lobbied hard in the 2010 rezoning for zoning for "COMPARABILITY" so if he's elected he'll fit in with the current views of the board. If I'm understanding you correctly he wants to allow grandfathering for 8th graders in future rezonings but he also wants the board to have the power to override allowing grandfathering? So.......no different than it already is. It's already at their discretion. Geez.........His views on rezoning are exactly the reason single member disitricts are needed in CS. When you have single member disitricts you get a better representation of what the community as a whole wants and not just the views of the same few neighborhoods that most of the board, hisself included, currently reside. Washington DC isn't made up of senators that only live in DC. It wouldn't work in that scenario and it isn't working here in CS.


Also, we all know rezoning has to happen when new schools open. That's not the argument here. It's the Board's policy(FC Local) on boundary adjustments that needs to be looked and addressed.

Expert Analysis
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Rezoning does need to occur when new schools are built. For existing schools like the highschools, they should not be rezoned every couple years. We are wasting money paying people to predict student populations if they cannot forecast out at least 5 years with some level of accuracy.
The plan is to bond cshs for expansion in a couple years to increase capacity. That should already be considered in the rezoning that just occured. The major housing developments that are to be built for the next 5 years are already known.
You can reduce the need for significant rezoning with a little planning, which is what we are paying these groups to gather the numbers are supposed to be doing.
AggieMom_38
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It is absolutely asinine to claim rezoning kids around every year or two is the new normal. Support the guy if you want because he's got some wealth of knowledge as a hired consultant, but being pro zoning rather than employing other alternatives to address capacity or growth makes no sense and has been harmful to our schools/programs, the families, and the community. We need a strategic plan (as well as to seriously evaluate the demographers being used and look at proactive rather than reactive solutions). Seriously, to claim we are just going to HAVE TO REZONE, get over it...is unacceptable and to be honest, shows a lack of rational thought.
Turf96
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91_Aggie said:

Yep. Rezoning needs to happen. It is absolutley ridiculous that we have one high school at 85% capacity and a 2nd one at 110%+ capacity.

Common sense needs to trump parents who are only worried about a perceived idea that one school is more prestigious than the other one.


I agree to a degree with you. Here is the real issue I think for many. They don't trust the current leadership to rezone in a fair manner. The movement of FC local to fit an agenda. The constant changing of numbers or outright bad numbers to start. Our projections have been terrible. I'm not a tin foil hat guy as some but man some of this looks off. Then get the lack of heart: the kids are just a number and unprofessional language written on paper just feels wrong.

I think most rational people know when a new school is built a rezone will happen. I think most know when a school is overcrowded then change will happen. I think also most want a common sense approach. Move who is closest. Move the least affected. Not hand pick this group or that group. Then it becomes shady feeling. When you do make a change make sure what you do is right for your students. The board did not do that this last round and it ruffled feathers.

I think the feeling of rezoning is very real in our community. It didn't come without reason. A smear campaign was started by a group and shoved at the board. The board for whatever reason worked towards that groups demands and it got nasty. That won't change until a good faith effort has been shown by all parties involved. You will never rebalance life to make it all fair. Rather than uproot families to make it fair why not dedicate resources to areas of need to make it all better? Moving a few well off kids from Indian lakes to Cons would have done what for the low SES kids already there? That was the original plan that got foiled. This all boils down to trust. You can't love if you don't have trust in a relationship. It is time to get back to doing things that are all above the board. Numbers don't need to be played like a deck of cards. When that stops you will see less discord.

For the record and I have said this before I don't feel all the Leadeship is bad. I do believe their are some bad apples. Having all the board agree on everything all the time is not healthy. This board often appears to the outside as a dictatorship not a democracy. By going to zones of rep seats would go a long way to appearing a little less shady. At this time it looks like we have more of the same on the way and it doesn't set well. Don't understand why folks don't like Beto as he works around the questions without answering them yet like so many that do the same in our schools. Answer the questions and be fair to all.

Tip of the day. When economics become your primary focus you lose. Just because Joe is rich doesn't mean he is a good family man and has great kids. Rebalance of socio economics is one of the most ridiculous things in our society today. The rich will just make the next move. You are trying to hold back the tide. Move onto different matrix and do what is right for the kids. Free lunch numbers will never be a good answer.
Stupe
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91_Aggie said:

Yep. Rezoning needs to happen. It is absolutley ridiculous that we have one high school at 85% capacity and a 2nd one at 110%+ capacity.

Common sense needs to trump parents who are only worried about a perceived idea that one school is more prestigious than the other one.
Common sense like zoning them so the demographics look good on paper instead taking into account how it actually affects students and families on a daily basis?

That kind of "common sense"?
Stupe
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That fact that he's against single member districts is a negative in my opinion.
AggieMom_38
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I think people also need to remember with single member stuff, it's not like that'll happen overnight or automatically with a new board member. It would take a majority board vote to do it (right?) or a community petition or a lawsuit (so it could happen anyway given the frustration in the community).

So even if one is against single member district specifically I greatly value that someone is at least willing to have a conversation about how to engage people in our community that have been (and feel) ignored and shuffled around like numbers in a spreadsheet. I also appreciate the underlying value of engaging and listening to the broad community which the single member idea represents. Coming down so hard against engaging other voices/perspectives and broadening representation (and instead running on stay with status quo and we don't need or want any more representation), that's troubling. To be so strongly against something that includes others particularly low income and minorities in the community??

edit: for clarity
02skiag
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While there are a large number that agree with you, there is also a large number that agree with the factors that the board has used for rezoning. Vote for who and what you think will best represent you. Maybe enough folks agree with you and things change eventually. Maybe not though.
91_Aggie
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Stupe said:

91_Aggie said:

Yep. Rezoning needs to happen. It is absolutley ridiculous that we have one high school at 85% capacity and a 2nd one at 110%+ capacity.

Common sense needs to trump parents who are only worried about a perceived idea that one school is more prestigious than the other one.
Common sense like zoning them so the demographics look good on paper instead taking into account how it actually affects students and families on a daily basis?

That kind of "common sense"?
yeah, the demographics part is dumb as well.
There's more than one culprit with why they can't get it right.
I agree that the school board's attempt to make sure all the schools keep getting their "good grades" by making sure the "demographics" they think would hurt that are spread as evenly as possible between the two schools and thus making a mess of the zoning maps.
ChiefHaus
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Well, it sounds as if you like and want more of the same then vote for this guy. I give the guy props for being honest and stating what he thinks on what is basically the elephant in the room this go around. He won't get my vote, but at least he is honest.
Turf96
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02skiag said:

While there are a large number that agree with you, there is also a large number that agree with the factors that the board has used for rezoning. Vote for who and what you think will best represent you. Maybe enough folks agree with you and things change eventually. Maybe not though.


Which factors did they use that you and many agreed upon?
viejo
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I have no problem with rezoning....it just has to be done from time to time. What I have a problem with is the PROCESS they used for rezoning this last time. They put out two maps a couple of months before the final vote with the options they were considering. I quit paying attention, my neighborhood wasn't impacted, it remained zoned the same in either map. Then, 10 days before the final vote, a new map was produced unlike the other two and it's the one that got voted in. I had no idea until it was all over.

The right process SHOULD be to consider all the options, present the best 2 (or three, or four, whatever) two months before and vote on those presented to the public. Throwing a new map out there 10 days before the vote was just flat out wrong.
Wendy 1990
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viejo said:

I have no problem with rezoning....it just has to be done from time to time. What I have a problem with is the PROCESS they used for rezoning this last time. They put out two maps a couple of months before the final vote with the options they were considering. I quit paying attention, my neighborhood wasn't impacted, it remained zoned the same in either map. Then, 10 days before the final vote, a new map was produced unlike the other two and it's the one that got voted in. I had no idea until it was all over.

The right process SHOULD be to consider all the options, present the best 2 (or three, or four, whatever) two months before and vote on those presented to the public. Throwing a new map out there 10 days before the vote was just flat out wrong.


The board began the process with 4 maps. They started making additional changes over several meetings. The original maps were starting points. Remember the feedback meeting and emails? They had to decide if they were going to rezone the walkers around CSHS or the drivers from down wellborn. Those were two very distinctive forks in the road that, once that decision was made, led them to their final decision. They had meetings every 2-5 days before they decided on a final version. There were no real surprises if you followed the process from start to finish. You may not agree, but everyone was heard. Believe it or not, there are people that think the board wasn't aggressive enough and more neighborhoods should of been rezoned.

The same process happened with elementary rezoning. The original maps presented were also changed after meetings/feedback. That process is less controversial because there are 10+ elementaries schools verses just 2 high schools.

The board has obviously decided that rezoning decisions need to happen quickly because of the rancor. Make the decision and move on.
TaterTot_09
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No real surprises? You don't actually believe the residents of Creek Meadows weren't surprised, do you? Actually, don't answer that. They were. They had the rug pulled out from under them and weren't given what any decent human being would consider an ample amount of time for feedback. Most didn't find out until afterwards. Creek Meadows was never even in the running so how on earth would they have known they needed to plead their case to the board? Sickening.
AggieMom_38
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I wonder if Castlegate knows they were in the running to be rezoned? They were pulled into the map with Indian Lakes just like Creek Meadows was with Saddlecreek/other west areas. It was Castlegate or Creek Meadows that was going to be rezoned that night. I'd love to know how many people in Castlegate knew this. And odds are, they'll be rezoned next to consol as there are still capacity issues across campuses and no nearterm plans for bonding to address.
Oogway
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The administration would NEVER go for it, but if you put ALL- and I mean ALL of the Advanced Placement classes (not pre-AP) at Consol, rezoning at the high school level could probably be put off for quite some time. Anyone zoned for CSHS that wanted AP classes would either attend Consol, or if they so chose, the IL school. CSHS would offer on level, honors and some pre-AP classes. Some parents might not like that, but then at least a parent would select the school they wanted their child to attend based on the coursework offered.

1.618
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1.618
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So how would it work if your kid took some AP classes but not all AP classes? Or if a freshman was in AP Math but Pre-AP English or Honors English? I don't see how that would work from a logistical standpoint.
Wicked Good Ag
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I think that means that you dont have to take all but if you wanted to take one or more then you would have to go to consol.

While that would balance the numbers i think it would make those who wanted to stay at CSHS have to decide on AP or not and devalue the potential education at CSHS at the very least in terms of opportunities
Oogway
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They could have an either/or situation (as in Consol has on-level, Honors and AP based or while CSHS has on-level and Honors based, along with any pre-AP courses in the lower class years) or on an application based situation (i.e. if space was available in an Honors course at Consol for students already zoned for Consol then an out-of-zone student could take the less rigorous Honors course along with the AP course).

It is doable but in order for it to work as a capacity issue, there could be little compromise on the number of AP courses offered and it would have to be none at the more crowded CSHS campus. The campus with the most dual credit is the under-utilized CVHS, which enables students to graduate with essentially two years of college credit. Students haven't been signing up for that in droves, so this would provide the opportunity for parents to choose. If Consol became crowded due to demand, then the school board and administration could revisit the issue and decide if they wanted to open up a section or two of classes at the other campus, but only after Consol was at capacity. (That would require around what, around 700 students?)

It beats having people squabble over which neighborhood to throw under the school bus next.
Oogway
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The CTE programs already have some differences between the two, and while programmatically this would be a bigger change, the opportunity would still be available to all students. There are plenty of parents who would stay at CSHS and prefer not to enroll their student in Advanced Placement. This forces a commitment somewhat similar to what the charter school asks of its parents.
Tigermom84
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Your ideas are exactly the kind of stuff the board (and I assume barrington) will ignore in favor of rezoning. It's a shame because I could see that working because families choose their priorities.
Stupe
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No surprises? Is that a joke?
Stupe
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Quote:

You may not agree, but everyone was heard.
That is outright false.

A brand new map was drawn after the only public hearing with neighborhoods switching schools that weren't on the maps prior to that hearing. How were those people heard?

91_Aggie
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Oogway said:

The administration would NEVER go for it, but if you put ALL- and I mean ALL of the Advanced Placement classes (not pre-AP) at Consol, rezoning at the high school level could probably be put off for quite some time. Anyone zoned for CSHS that wanted AP classes would either attend Consol, or if they so chose, the IL school. CSHS would offer on level, honors and some pre-AP classes. Some parents might not like that, but then at least a parent would select the school they wanted their child to attend based on the coursework offered.




The problem with that is that you completely skew the demographics again. All the highest performing kids would be at one school. And then you have an almost impossibility of slightly less than the best of the best not having a chance at all of being in the top 10%

So at one school.only the very elite get auto acceptance in to state colleges completely blocking that off from students who would.have been good enough if they went to the "dumber" school.
91_Aggie
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My oldest who just graduated was very highly ranked at CSHS. We asked her about CVHS and she said there woule be no way she would want to go there no matter how great the academics because she would not be with her friends.

The parents choosing the school based on Academics or availability of AP classes I think, would play very little into any huge population shifts.

Might as well just say that only one of the schools gets to have a football team. And the other only gets to play basketball.
missB
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I didn't watch the KAMU candidate forum. Was Barrington's opponent present? No one has mentioned her rebuttals or answers. Curious if she wasn't there and if so, why? Forums are open to both candidates.
Agmaker
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The other candidate attended the school board meeting that was on the same night. That was the board meeting where rezoning was approved.
Oogway
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91_Aggie said:

Oogway said:

The administration would NEVER go for it, but if you put ALL- and I mean ALL of the Advanced Placement classes (not pre-AP) at Consol, rezoning at the high school level could probably be put off for quite some time. Anyone zoned for CSHS that wanted AP classes would either attend Consol, or if they so chose, the IL school. CSHS would offer on level, honors and some pre-AP classes. Some parents might not like that, but then at least a parent would select the school they wanted their child to attend based on the coursework offered.




The problem with that is that you completely skew the demographics again. All the highest performing kids would be at one school. And then you have an almost impossibility of slightly less than the best of the best not having a chance at all of being in the top 10%

So at one school.only the very elite get auto acceptance in to state colleges completely blocking that off from students who would.have been good enough if they went to the "dumber" school.
Like I said, the administration would never go for it, but as far as skewing the demographics: they are already skewed and trending toward a disparity based on socioeconomic factors resulting in defacto segregation that is income based due to housing availability. Parents don't like being rezoned every few years to achieve comparability, and if the line was drawn during the last boundary adjustment based on proximity only (like some citizens wanted) then the academic and income divide would deepen to the point of no return. This method places parents with a commitment to college level academics near the low SES student population who needs that parental/adult involvement the most while giving their own parents some assistance due to proximity.

If students want to go to a campus with their friends, then how is that different than how we rezone now?


As far as the high performing students and their woes, it is not a school district's responsibility to design their curricula availability so that your (or any) student is a Top Ten Percent admit or even a Top Ten admit to a specific school.
A school district in Texas is charged with improving outcomes for students across the state. Being slightly outside of the automatic admit does not mean that a student cannot go to college. What it may mean, however, is that a student and their parent(s) need to sit down and talk about what college readiness, career readiness, and life readiness really mean. If the goal as a family is 'get into A&M' or 'get into UT' as an auto-admit, then they can move to a district where that is possible because while that may mean success to you that is not what CSISD means (or should mean) when they say 'success: each life, each day, each hour.' The fact that many parents are focusing upon the end justifying the means when it comes to college acceptance are something that Districts with many high performing students have to live with, but if the District wants to be a 'District of Innovation,' then they should get on with it and not worry about whether student X gets into a specific school, but whether student X has learned enough to be admitted to any accredited school.

Honors classes and on-level classes are not 'dumber,' and it is obvious that students who take Honors classes from CSISD get admitted to outstanding universities nationwide, but if that is your perception, it would be futile for me to attempt to change it, just as some of the perceptions that currently exist between different campuses are not necessarily accurate either. If some families (admit it, you know they are among us) want to try and 'game' the system instead of focusing on the actual learning that should be taking at an appropriate level for each student in the classroom, then they should move accordingly to a District where that is possible. People move for sports all the time, this is no different.



Edit: clarity
91_Aggie
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Oogway said:

91_Aggie said:

Oogway said:

The administration would NEVER go for it, but if you put ALL- and I mean ALL of the Advanced Placement classes (not pre-AP) at Consol, rezoning at the high school level could probably be put off for quite some time. Anyone zoned for CSHS that wanted AP classes would either attend Consol, or if they so chose, the IL school. CSHS would offer on level, honors and some pre-AP classes. Some parents might not like that, but then at least a parent would select the school they wanted their child to attend based on the coursework offered.




The problem with that is that you completely skew the demographics again. All the highest performing kids would be at one school. And then you have an almost impossibility of slightly less than the best of the best not having a chance at all of being in the top 10%

So at one school.only the very elite get auto acceptance in to state colleges completely blocking that off from students who would.have been good enough if they went to the "dumber" school.
Like I said, the administration would never go for it, but as far as skewing the demographics: they are already skewed and trending toward a disparity based on socioeconomic factors resulting in defacto segregation that is income based due to housing availability. Parents don't like being rezoned every few years to achieve comparability, and if the line was drawn during the last boundary adjustment based on proximity only (like some citizens wanted) then the academic and income divide would deepen to the point of no return. This method places parents with a commitment to college level academics near the low SES student population who needs that parental/adult involvement the most while giving their own parents some assistance due to proximity.

If students want to go to a campus with their friends, then how is that different than how we rezone now?


As far as the high performing students and their woes, it is not a school district's responsibility to design their curricula availability so that your (or any) student is a Top Ten Percent admit or even a Top Ten admit to a specific school.
A school district in Texas is charged with improving outcomes for students across the state. Being slightly outside of the automatic admit does not mean that a student cannot go to college. What it may mean, however, is that a student and their parent(s) need to sit down and talk about what college readiness, career readiness, and life readiness really mean. If the goal as a family is 'get into A&M' or 'get into UT' as an auto-admit, then they can move to a district where that is possible because while that may mean success to you that is not what CSISD means (or should mean) when they say 'success: each life, each day, each hour.' The fact that many parents are focusing upon the end justifying the means when it comes to college acceptance are something that Districts with many high performing students have to live with, but if the District wants to be a 'District of Innovation,' then they should get on with it and not worry about whether student X gets into a specific school, but whether student X has learned enough to be admitted to any accredited school.

Honors classes and on-level classes are not 'dumber,' and it is obvious that students who take Honors classes from CSISD get admitted to outstanding universities nationwide, but if that is your perception, it would be futile for me to attempt to change it, just as some of the perceptions that currently exist between different campuses are not necessarily accurate either. If some families (admit it, you know they are among us) want to try and 'game' the system instead of focusing on the actual learning that should be taking at an appropriate level for each student in the classroom, then they should move accordingly to a District where that is possible. People move for sports all the time, this is no different.



Edit: clarity

Well it is not just the auto-admits... its going to affect scholarships as well. No matter how good of an essay you write, if you are writing it from ranking greater than >15% the numbers of people applying for scholarships makes it very difficult for whomever chooses the scholarship winners to pick that essay out as special than the ones they received from top 5 to 10% rankings.

And when is it a numbers thing, the benefit of the doubt is going to be given to that top 5 to 10% instead of outside that level (unless you have other factors in play in regards to race/gender).
Tigermom84
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AG
You're right. Her fb page says she was at the meeting that night. I can respect that. Clearly this is about service for her and not politics.
AggieMom_38
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If anyone has questions about the other candidates' views and knowldge on rezoning (as well as teacher pay, legislative issues, challenges our kids face... ) she has several videos on her Facebook page and I know she's extremely responsive if you ask her questions.
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