BrazosDog02 said:

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My rough calculation is that the customer is saving $1000 a year based on .12/kWH. I do not know rates or how they vary in the year or the cost of the new system. This calculation can be pinned down pretty easily.

That said, I'm still not buying that cost reduction based on AC system alone. It's way too high and doesn't make sense. Something else changed in this home.

In this particular house, I am GUESSTIMATING $1000 a year savings. Typically, 14 to 16 seer is somewhere in the ballpark of 2-5 years to payback. It goes up quickly from there. If you sold a 22SEER system, it could easily be a 15-20 year payback on energy savings. That's why I'm not completely buying that the AC is the sole cause of this reduction in usage.

So, let's assume the old unit was operating at 10SEER and you installed a 22SEER, I'm still expecting 15 years to payback that energy savings and that's assuming the new system stays at 22SEER, which we know it won't. From a financial standpoint, this makes no sense. I do not install or recommend installing equipment that has a typical lifetime of 10 years, which I think is plenty fair if this is a heat pump that literally runs year round.

Sorry, I pounded this out really quick, so if my math and stuff it all wacky, that's why.

This is the same approach I take to roofing. I can sell really really cheap stuff, and I can sell really really high end stuff if someone just has to have it, but I have a middle of the road line that is what I consider to be the best value because I know how long that product will last on average in Texas.

I am NOT telling you this to berate you or your business, but I am telling you because I think it's important to be able to understand cost savings for a customer, after all, that is the sales pitch, right?

I installed a 16SEER unit to replace a 14SEER unit that was 13 years old. Do you know what the cost savings is on that? Nearly negligible and within the variance of other things I don't control. You want to know that for your customers.

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FWIW in Bryan (BTU) on a 3.5 ton unit the break even approaches 7 years just on the cost difference alone between a 14 and 16 SEER new install.

I don't even buy a $1,000 a year in savings unless you are moving from like a 10 to 20 SEER on perhaps a 20-25 year old 5 ton. On my 3.5 ton 14 SEER 11 year old American standard my electrical bill has never exceeded $200 even in the hottest months set on 74-75. Back out $30-$40 of that for dryer,oven, and lights. Based on 6 months of AC usage I don't think your going to drop my electrical bill $1,000 over 6 months when I don't even pay $160 avg a month now for AC use. In reality anything above 14-16 SEER is more of a feel good thing as the breakeven is just too long.

Good analysis,

The other variable which would alter this greatly was a rebuild/ redesign of the Air Duct system.



Side note: We've ran into a surprising amount of homeowners paying in the $400-600 range per month in Energy for a average house with one system. Cutting down those bills is something significant to many people.

Living in the area and not having deregulated electricity providers means we are all paying too much already for our Energy Bills. Too many people think a high electric bill is common and become accustomed to it.

The fun part is a handful of ppl on here enjoy trying to belittle us for pushing services which often save people with older systems a very meaningful amount of money every month.

EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

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Good analysis,

The other variable which would alter this greatly was a rebuild/ redesign of the Air Duct system.



Side note: We've ran into a surprising amount of homeowners paying in the $400-600 range per month in Energy for a average house with one system. Cutting down those bills is something significant to many people.

Living in the area and not having deregulated electricity providers means we are all paying too much already for our Energy Bills. Too many people think a high electric bill is common and become accustomed to it.

The fun part is a handful of ppl on here enjoy trying to belittle us for pushing services which often save people with older systems a very meaningful amount of money every month.

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Tell us more about these single system units that are using 2-4 times the electricity compared to what other 15-20 year old systems in BCS are using

Are they keeping the thermostats at 65 degrees?


10 seer to 20 seer change out ?

What is the breakeven on the new system based on CSU or BTU electricity rates ?

dubi said:

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InMyOpinion said:

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While it's obvious the useage went down but details about what they had, what you did, size of home, age of previous unit if replaced with a 2 stage etc.

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I have a 30yo AC unit. If replaced, energy consumption will plunge like the OP's 1st post in this thread.

That is why we want and deserve details of the before and after units.

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Do you mind posting your 12 month kilowatt usage for this 30 year old unit and what do you keep the thermostat set on?

I'll look it up tomorrow.

JP76 said:

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EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

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Good analysis,

The other variable which would alter this greatly was a rebuild/ redesign of the Air Duct system.



Side note: We've ran into a surprising amount of homeowners paying in the $400-600 range per month in Energy for a average house with one system. Cutting down those bills is something significant to many people.

Living in the area and not having deregulated electricity providers means we are all paying too much already for our Energy Bills. Too many people think a high electric bill is common and become accustomed to it.

The fun part is a handful of ppl on here enjoy trying to belittle us for pushing services which often save people with older systems a very meaningful amount of money every month.

---

Tell us more about these single system units that are using 2-4 times the electricity compared to what other 15-20 year old systems in BCS are using

Are they keeping the thermostats at 65 degrees?


10 seer to 20 seer change out ?

What is the breakeven on the new system based on CSU or BTU electricity rates ?

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Sir, your making this thread boring. We took out a ~15 year old system and replaced it with a 14 SEER system with new duct work.

Sorry we failed to document all the variables so we could answer all the asinine questions you're asking.

How do you check to see if a system has oil fouling inside to know if Artic Blast will work and remove it and be a good payback/ROI as opposed to wasting your money on it in a system that is not-oil fouled because it has been maintained well and/or the system has been kept tight without excess air and moisture incursion/entrapment?

EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

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JP76 said:

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EcoZapp.Makes.Crisp.Air said:

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Good analysis,

The other variable which would alter this greatly was a rebuild/ redesign of the Air Duct system.



Side note: We've ran into a surprising amount of homeowners paying in the $400-600 range per month in Energy for a average house with one system. Cutting down those bills is something significant to many people.

Living in the area and not having deregulated electricity providers means we are all paying too much already for our Energy Bills. Too many people think a high electric bill is common and become accustomed to it.

The fun part is a handful of ppl on here enjoy trying to belittle us for pushing services which often save people with older systems a very meaningful amount of money every month.

---

Tell us more about these single system units that are using 2-4 times the electricity compared to what other 15-20 year old systems in BCS are using

Are they keeping the thermostats at 65 degrees?


10 seer to 20 seer change out ?

What is the breakeven on the new system based on CSU or BTU electricity rates ?

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Sir, your making this thread boring. We took out a ~15 year old system and replaced it with a 14 SEER system with new duct work.

Sorry we failed to document all the variables so we could answer all the asinine questions you're asking.

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How much for the 14 SEER goodman installed with new ductwork ?


What ton ?

Fiberglass board ducts ?

No attic insulation ?

Your numbers still don't add up unless these customers were basically running the system 24 hours a day straight into the attic or perhaps trying to cool house to 65 degrees


I've got a 11 year old 14 SEER 3.5 ton American standard with leaking fiberglass hard duct and my total electrical usage was $200 last month with an electric water heater and range. So how much will a new 14 seer and ductwork be for me In order to cut my bill to $100 ? $4,000? $6,000 ?

Quote:

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Do you mind posting your 12 month kilowatt usage for this 30 year old unit and what do you keep the thermostat set on?

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On average we keep our thermostat on 76. I'd appreciate it if you would interpret the difference between my old unit and the graph posted by the OP.

dubi said:

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Quote:

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Do you mind posting your 12 month kilowatt usage for this 30 year old unit and what do you keep the thermostat set on?

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On average we keep our thermostat on 76. I'd appreciate it if you would interpret the difference between my old unit and the graph posted by the OP.

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What ton unit?

Gas water heater and range ?

How much is CSU per kilowatt?

Perhaps other posters will chime in and we can see what the real life numbers say over a larger sample size

My June BTU bill

AC on 74-75
3.5 ton 14 SEER 11 year old unit
1908 kwh
$194.93

Electric dryer, washer, and water heater


For reference in Dec and Jan when I still had a gas water heater and zero ac use my usage was 600 and 650 kWh.

JP76 said:

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dubi said:

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Quote:

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Do you mind posting your 12 month kilowatt usage for this 30 year old unit and what do you keep the thermostat set on?

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On average we keep our thermostat on 76. I'd appreciate it if you would interpret the difference between my old unit and the graph posted by the OP.

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What ton unit?

Gas water heater and range ?

How much is CSU per kilowatt?

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5 ton

Range and water heater are both gas

.1168 kwh if my math is good for the July bill. ($240 / 2,054)

2500 sq ft house

June BTU bill $172 (rural rate)
1500kw

AC set on 75-74
Electric everything
1900 square foot house
16 year old 3 ton 13 seer heat pump

Does a thicker media filter have any advantages in an existing unit with a 1" filter? Worth a retrofit?

dubi said:

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Quote:

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Do you mind posting your 12 month kilowatt usage for this 30 year old unit and what do you keep the thermostat set on?

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On average we keep our thermostat on 76. I'd appreciate it if you would interpret the difference between my old unit and the graph posted by the OP.

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My point is

Your 30 year old guessing 8 SEER ? 5 ton is using $150-160 in electrical in summer months from your posted chart.

For $10,000 you can drop your AC electrical usage in half like he claims but your breakeven still remains 15-20 years.

I'm still on the hunt for these $400-$600 bills for single unit AC use only that eco is claiming they see

Perhaps other will chime in so we have a bigger sample

Honestly I don't see how it gets much worse. Mine runs almost constantly.

So would most bang for the buck be a 16 seer 2 stage?

dubi said:

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Honestly I don't see how it gets much worse. Mine runs almost constantly.

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If your system was designed properly for your home and its hotter than about 95-100 degrees, your unit SHOULD run all day. There are design specs and this past heat has been a fair bit above them.

BrazosDog02 said:

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dubi said:

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Honestly I don't see how it gets much worse. Mine runs almost constantly.

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If your system was designed properly for your home and its hotter than about 95-100 degrees, your unit SHOULD run all day. There are design specs and this past heat has been a fair bit above them.

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That is good to know.

So when i get a new one, it will run most of the time too but will just use less electricity?

I have this AC Unit and it's been around for a while. Never really thought much about it. A few times here and there it would start to run really loud. Obnoxious almost. To the point that it made my neighbors and others walking by get annoyed and then there'd be this whole deal with people discussing it.

Usually it'd come along, do its thing, piss off who it would piss off, then the noise eventually would go away. Maybe 3 or 4 times over the last couple years. Well now the last few weeks it's doing it again.

Given the neighbors and others are vocally angered and now it's even bothering me, all this thing did by making that noise was make me take notice of the unit and I gotta tell ya....now I am hostile towards this thing. I may keep it around if it stays quiet, but all that AC unit has done is guarantee I would never buy that brand again.

Bunk Moreland said:

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I have this AC Unit and it's been around for a while. Never really thought much about it. A few times here and there it would start to run really loud. Obnoxious almost. To the point that it made my neighbors and others walking by get annoyed and then there'd be this whole deal with people discussing it.

Usually it'd come along, do its thing, piss off who it would piss off, then the noise eventually would go away. Maybe 3 or 4 times over the last couple years. Well now the last few weeks it's doing it again.

Given the neighbors and others are vocally angered and now it's even bothering me, all this thing did by making that noise was make me take notice of the unit and I gotta tell ya....now I am hostile towards this thing. I may keep it around if it stays quiet, but all that AC unit has done is guarantee I would never buy that brand again.

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Maybe you just need to oil your fan? Or a new fan; they are cheap if you DIY.

Well, that said, people complain when it gets hot outside and they can't keep their house at 75 degrees, so units are sometimes bumped up in size. That's fine for the summer but in the winter and fall sometimes it gets humid because the AC doesn't run much.

This is why I like my two stage variable speed system. It can ramp up or down based on load and it can stay closer to spec most times of the year.

Are you sure it's not a noisy contactor?

I have a 3 ton Lennox that was installed in 2003 for the downstairs. We have a 3.5 ton Goodman that runs the upstairs. 3400 sq ft total. We have only been in the house 6 years. We keep the temp in the house 73-74. Neither of our units runs constantly, and the insulation in our attic stinks - literally 6-9" only.
I have been putting off new insulation forever. Our highest bill ever was $405. Just this last bill was $317...this is for a record hot July.

I'm not running out and dropping 10-15k to save $50 per month. I would like lower bills yes but $300-350 in the summer months for my house to me is not bad.

CapCity12thMan said:

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Are you sure it's not a noisy contactor?

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Not my house or my noise.

But we had a noisy fan once that finally broke. New fan was super quiet.

Such creative writing - 10/10 !

Bunk Moreland said:

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I have this AC Unit and it's been around for a while. Never really thought much about it. A few times here and there it would start to run really loud. Obnoxious almost. To the point that it made my neighbors and others walking by get annoyed and then there'd be this whole deal with people discussing it.

Usually it'd come along, do its thing, piss off who it would piss off, then the noise eventually would go away. Maybe 3 or 4 times over the last couple years. Well now the last few weeks it's doing it again.

Given the neighbors and others are vocally angered and now it's even bothering me, all this thing did by making that noise was make me take notice of the unit and I gotta tell ya....now I am hostile towards this thing. I may keep it around if it stays quiet, but all that AC unit has done is guarantee I would never buy that brand again.

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Sounds like a pos goodman ?

JP76 said:

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On par with your creative math of $400-$600 ac electrical usage on single residential units

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Did you know there's a topic in the Aggieland forum addressing high electric bills in this area?
https://texags.com/forums/35/topics/2960535


Also, please consider just because your house and many other ppl's homes on here are probably above average. ( you know A&M Alumni yields higher salaries and what not ) You're not considering houses in not as good shape running 2+ window units with an A/C system running 24/7 costing ppl a week's pay check every month running them.

The fact you're arguing against higher SEER systems is down right asinine and then you're arguing against an inexpensive solution like Arctic Blast which usually helps lower ppl's air coming from the vents by ~7*F and cuts their electric bill. ( I'm sure you'll argue how something good is so bad like small minded people do, but to many people this is a quality a life issue and a way we can help those who can't afford a newer system )

You're a perfect example to us as to why the A/C industry is extremely overdue for a change and expose just how many misconceptions there are relating to A/C systems. We have a film crew following us around for this very reason and are planning of going over every single detail about the A/C business.

The fact that you have spent so much time coming up with asinine arguments mean we're pushing pressure points and a few are probably offending you so some degree ( maybe for your own shortcomings..). We're not scared to call out the BS of the A/C industry.

The fact that the SBA named me the Young Entrepreneur of the Year for the Houston region for doing what we're doing , and yet a bunch of old white A/C guys are grumpy about us making noise, makes us think...

You know, it was fun last year when we had 100's of thousands of ppl hitting out digital pages critiquing our service. Yet at the same time we had several dozen ppl with actual College degrees and Masters degrees working in the HVAC field sending us resumes. This made us realize a few fun things. ( old guys in HVAC don't like us -ppl with College Degrees in the HVAC field are sending us resumes ???) Now we've plucked some of the best in the area and a few of the best in the Houston area.

Since then we've assembled a team of ppl who know a know lot about the HVAC business who have left their current jobs for a culture change.

Since last year we sold our Pest and LED light operations in both Waco and B/CS and invested 100% of everything into an HVAC service, built a great team, added a fleet, and started becoming serious competitors in the area, which has already caused a bit of a shake-up in the B/CS market and I'm assuming you've noticed and don't like it.


Please keep commenting and posting, i'll troll with you for weeks brother.

BTW We're giving away 4 more free A/C Systems ( 2 set aside for only Havey impacted houses) hit our website to enter https://www.ecozapphvac.com/

Hit our facebook if you need verification on if EcoZapp is doing something good or something shady
https://www.facebook.com/EcoZapphome/