CSISD proposed boundary adjustments [Second Staff Warning on OP]

101,928 Views | 858 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Oogway
CS_Aggie
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No matter what plan they choose, some neighborhoods will be upset about the outcome. The bottom line is that they need to move more kids to AMCHS. When I read parents who live in areas like Dove Crossing complaining that their kids may get bused to Consol, I wonder how they could possibly think it makes more sense to bus kids from the farthest south neighborhoods in the whole district all the way north to AMCHS. Let's face it: very few (if any) kids from Dove Crossing walk all the way to CSHS. Those kids can be quickly and easily bused to Consol. The costs to bus and the times on a bus for kids in south College Station to be transported past CSHS to AMCHS would be ridiculous.

Option 1 would create a "super school" at AMCHS. It's wrong and unfair to put ALL the highest SES neighborhoods in the district at a single high school: Pebble Creek, Williams Creek, Indian Lakes, Southwood Forest, Nantucket, Saddle Creek, Duck Haven, etc. Does anyone honestly think it makes sense to put ALL those neighborhoods at one high school the way Option 1 would do so?? It's completely ridiculous. It creates a super school and disrupts the maximum number of households. Maximum disruption and a super school. Are we out of our minds?

Option 3 disrupts far fewer families because it finally begins to focus on ZONING new developments where we need them to go, rather than REZONING existing neighborhoods to different schools. Option 3 accomplishes all of the board's stated goals, keeps the growth rates of the two schools the most similar of all the options, and disrupts the fewest numbers of kids and households because it zones a huge new development with high future growth to AMCHS. Option 3 is by far the most sensible plan.
AgsWin2011
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AG
These zones are so dumb. It's like a crap shoot of who will go where. They might as well just have a lottery to select which individual kid goes where.
Stupe
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S
Quote:

Option 3 accomplishes all of the board's stated goals, keeps the growth rates of the two schools the most similar of all the options, and disrupts the fewest numbers of kids and households because it zones a huge new development with high future growth to AMCHS. Option 3 is by far the most sensible plan.
Option three is not the best of those three plans, it's the worst.

Taking kids that are on Barron Road and can walk or bike to school in less than 10 minutes and moving them across town is ridiculous.



scs01
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Oogway said:


The question I have re scenario #3 is that bit just off Arrington (west side) and north of Indian Lakes/Nantucket. Wasn't that supposed to be a multifamily development going in that parcel? If so, it seems a little wacky to trade one set of apts (northside) with one set (southside). Granted, it may not be built yet, but if you are trying to combine growth models w/SES then that seems going a little too far just for balance.
The bulk of the development in that area that is planned for the short/intermediate term is on the Margraves property, and that is single-family homes (900?) probably roughly on the order of Castlegate II for general neighborhood characteristics and price point from what I understand. There are some apartments planned in that general area too, but they are aimed more at young professionals. I think they are aimed at a very different demographic than the apartments in north CS being sent to CSHS, and my best guess is there will be relatively few kids there in the short term in any case. So the reasoning of zoning that area to Consol is good, in my opinion, since people will know they're going there when they buy. The implementation of course has some downsides for others, though.
Tigermom84
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AG
Shenandoah is 1 mile from CSHS and 4 miles from consol. Duck haven, saddle creek and IL are closer to 10mi away. Shenandoah is geographically small and dense with students. The transporting of those kids via bus 4 miles to consol makes a lot more sense financially and time-wise compared to 3 large, spread-out, low density neighborhoods that are 10miles away.
Oogway
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Thanks for the info.
Stupe
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S
Tigermom84 said:

The transporting of those kids via bus 4 miles to consol makes a lot more sense financially and time-wise compared to 3 large, spread-out, low density neighborhoods that are 10miles away.
What makes more sense from that standpoint is having the kids that are north of 2818 and are zoned for CSHS going to Consolidated.

The school board isn't using logic or "what makes more sense" when it comes to getting kids to and from school.
MTTANK
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AG
The problem is instead of zoning areas that make since, they are turning the district into a Frankenstein. So Why would they be after Indian Lakes, Saddle Creek, and Duck Haven when these hoods are so far south that the next street is literally zoned Navasota ISD? It's all just a money grab by consol staff and parents that feel CSHS has it better. Also look at where those on the board are zoned, and you will see it's almost 90% consol HS. Notice they want Indian lakes, saddle creek, and other higher value neighborhoods at THEIR SCHOOL- AMCHS! If they keep it up they will really kill the sense of community many have, and I predict most of the affluent they try putting the screws to might go the private route or move to a better administered district. Who would have ever thought Bryan, Anderson, and Iola could beat out CS and have better predictability?!
Expert Analysis
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Its demographics. Take an island of lower income and send them south to cshs. Take all the acreage higher value properties and send them north to consol.

Have they ever released the new elementary school zones for when the new school on Rock Prairie opens?
MTTANK
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AG
Demographics, money grab, socialism, etc.
Stupe
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S
Booster club money for athletics is definitely being taken into account, also.

The bottom line is that money is driving all of their decisions, not what is best for the students or families.
RGRAg1/75
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AG
BigBubba said:

Option 2a seems the worse to me. It would have kids less than 1/2 mile switched from CSHS to AMCHS. That is pretty extreme to me. Options 2b and 3 also are moving kids around a mile away to AMCHS but they are not as bad as 2a.

I don't have much sympathy for people down Wellborn that would get moved. The drive from SaddleCreek to AMCHS is 60 mph all down Wellborn and they have to go through only one light. The drive from Pebble Creek to AMCHS is worse than SaddleCreek to AMCHS.

Funny you say "you don't have much sympathy for people down Wellborn...." before you admit to being in Pebble.

It's not 60 all the way down, and there are multiple lights, and more going in. Traffic heading toward campus between 7 and 9 AM down Wellborn is heavily influenced by A&M students. How many Barracks type developments are east of Hwy 6 again?

Wellborn Rd from WD Fitch junction, which will be another red light soon, to Bryan is going to make Teaxs Ave look like a good option soon.

The bottom line is the ppl who were upset about the last rezoning are still upset and still want to be at "the new school." Additionally, CSHS should have been built to be a 6-A school. We will need another HS in CS in the next 3-5 years because we still won't have enough room, so this is all really moot anyway.

BigBubba
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AG
CS_Aggie said:

Option 1 would create a "super school" at AMCHS. It's wrong and unfair to put ALL the highest SES neighborhoods in the district at a single high school: Pebble Creek, Williams Creek, Indian Lakes, Southwood Forest, Nantucket, Saddle Creek, Duck Haven, etc.
Regardless, option 1 would still leave AMCHS with MORE low-ses students.
MsC2012
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AG
The amount of low-income housing in CS is drastically dwindling, the area by the Lincoln center is becoming students, and eventually the "low-income" distribution will be very little because CS won't have any. I think a 3rd HS is close too, so we'll be having this debate every 2-3 years it seems.

It's an interesting debate, and it will effect property values if they choose #3 because people want their kids to go to CSHS. These lines matter more than just who's kids go where.
Stupe
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S
Scenario 3 would make it difficult to sell to families in the future Margraves development.
There is no way that I would buy a home in that area knowing that was going to be the commute for high school.

Before anyone jumps to conclusions, it's the commute and not the school.
Oogway
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Proximity was one of the concerns that some parents had and for others it was a secondary concern. So it isn't surprising that there is discussion regarding the different options. W/respect to the Margraves plot (wasn't that named Greens Prairie Reserve or something?), by the time that has enough homes to be of consequence, the bond election for expansion will have most likely occurred and #3 hs will be looming. If some enterprising developer donates land on the east side, then perhaps things will settle down as there would be 2 south side high schools where most of the growth is occurring (towards Navasota and Millican, but the estate subdivisions are low density) Until then, growing pains.

I've said it before, I will not vote for the hs $$ addition until capacity issues are addressed. The specific scenarios have their flaws, I agree, but I am hopeful that some of the problems can be worked out without rancor.
Stupe
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S
School proximity and commutes are not high priority considerations for "some" parents when they are looking to buy a new home. It's a high priority for the majority of them.
That subject is taught as a primary lead in when you take real estate sales classes.
txgardengirl
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All 3 scenarios end with a bond election in fall 2021, which if passed, would allow for build out of CSHS (40 million) to be ready for use fall of 2024. Then a bond election in fall of 2025 for HS3 with build out in fall 2028/2029

The area is growing, we need to use the resources we have.

Just a few years ago Everyone in CSISD drove to Consol...

If you stand on to roof of CSHS you can almost see 2000 kids - density is just that close to the school.
birdman
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After the last few stunts from the school board, I can't imagine a scenario where any bond passes.

CSISD is going to have to start tightening their belts.
CS78
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Stupe said:

School proximity and commutes are not high priority considerations for "some" parents when they are looking to buy a new home. It's a high priority for the majority of them.
There is a very observable price difference between the same house in each current zone. From what I understand, margins can be relatively thin in residential development. Assume the developer of the margraves property has everything priced out with sales comps similar to Castle Gate. Sure would be interesting if the ISD goes after the future development which blows the projected sales prices of the homes by 5% and collapses the whole deal. No new development and the ISD still doesn't get to harvest the higher income bodies they were after.
txgardengirl
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Cs78
Data please?
jac4
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AG
birdman said:

After the last few stunts from the school board, I can't imagine a scenario where any bond passes.

CSISD is going to have to start tightening their belts.


I hope so, but I doubt it.
Oogway
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I am not sure I am expressing myself clearly, or maybe we disagree; I am discussing current homeowners. If someone is looking to buy in a development that is just coming on line, then proximity would be something they may consider important. I don't know the timeline for the GP development but why would that be a deal breaker if within 6 or 7 years there is an addition to CSHS and a new high school preparing to be built? If you have, for example, a kindergartner, by then there will have been at least three to four boundary adjustments so you will probably be golden....
Tigermom84
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The board doesn't care about proximity, UNLESS you attend CSHS. In that case, it's a benefit to preserve walking and biking (as in Option 1). But they don't afford that same luxury to consol. In that case, it's best to bus people around in the name of comparable composition.

They like comparable composition not because it helps low ses kids (in our district, low ses kids in all demographics perform below the state average), but because it makes the "community" feel good and all schools then look equal because the low test scores don't bring down a school's average. The newest board member said in the last election at a forum that "[low ses students] are everyone's burden to bear." That's the ugly truth with why comparable composition is used here. Balance schools, balance test scores, stabilize real estate prices, constituents feel generous and are happy. Until they have to start transporting their kids across town.

The reality is that Option 3 is the only option that does both. It balances comparable composition, and it has the best proximity breakdown (even though some walkers will have to go an additional 3 miles to Consol, that's more logical than creating new bus routes for neighborhoods in the south) while balancing growth.

They are likely not to pick it though for 2 reasons. 1) Stupe is EXACTLY right, once they are able to prove that comparable composition is satisfied, they go after money for booster clubs to help athletics. Cougar Club has a lot more money than Tiger Club apparently, and the 5/7 board members that live in Consol zones are tired of hearing it. Emerge Option 1. Some long-time residents of this community will do anything it takes to restore Consol to its former glory. And 2) the developer of Margraves is going to be upset about it, and from what I understand, the board will do what he wants.
TAMU1990
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AG
Option 3 is the worst option because it relies heavily of future development of Margraves, rental homes, and town houses with the highest projected SES differences. Option 3 is exactly the type of options presented to the committee last time and the zones didn't even last 2 years (in reality, only 1 year because it was implemented this fall). The projected starting numbers for the fall were way off - Consol stared with fewer students and CSHS with more. You have to rezone neighborhoods with single family homes already on the ground and stop avoiding neighborhoods south of Fitch. It was painfully obvious to the committee, but they couldn't do it. Now the board has to do it.

The best options are 1 for the long term and to not rezone again until the 3rd HS is built (it also gives CSHS the long term development of Margraves) or 2b because it takes the fewest kids from the NE quadrant of CSHS current zone. Those kids should not have to ride a bus to Consol when they can walk to CSHS. If they go with 2b they need to just get rid of those few neighborhoods the demographer picked up and give them back to CSHS. Plus, the expansion of the charter school into the HS ranks will take some kids away from the district. How many is anyone's guess.

Finally, do people realize that Consol and CSHS are separated by 2 miles? That's really not a lot of extra driving.
Oogway
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I am actually a little surprised #3 didn't have Nantucket going north but I don't guess it has much density of hs or future hs age children? Just how many homes/students live in IL? It is further down the road (Mesa Verde extension notwithstanding) and a lot more convoluted.

However, I do see why the near east side in option 3 are not happy with that pick.
Tigermom84
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AG
If you look at the forecasts for Options 1 and 3, Option 3 is the one that forecasts MORE students at Consol and LESS students at CSHS, and there's a difference of almost 200 students (with Consol having the larger population) after 10 years. Option 3 is the ONLY one that sends the right amount of kids to Consol. Option 1 has them basically being equal again in 9-10 years. Yes we will build out CSHS and yes we will build a 3rd high school, but looking at numbers TODAY, it's the only one that makes sense. We can make guesses about apartment buildings and margraves, but if we were going to do that, why did we pay for the demographers? You either use the numbers and you accept that they aren't perfect or you don't use the numbers and go with feelings and hunches.

As to the charter, I'm willing to bet if any of those south neighborhoods get touched, then they may as well throw out the "low" impact from the charter school numbers, and switch to the "high" impact numbers (which we haven't seen). Because those are the neighborhoods that WILL use the Charter school or private schools, and then Option 1 falls apart, and we rezone again in 2 years because Consol is at 85% again.
Stupe
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S
Option 1 seems like a revenge option.
I would bet dollars against pennies that all of the people that were saying the zoning wasn't fair last time wouldn't say a word if they chose Option 1 this time.

Quote:

and the 5/7 board members that live in Consol zones
If that's the case, it definitely explains Option 1.
Stupe
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S
I specifically pointed to Scenario 3 and said that if that area were zoned to Consolidated when it was built and families were looking for houses, it would be difficult to sell to that demographic there.
Oogway
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Fine. Got it.
AggieMom_38
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Regarding Margraves... some posters are concerned that that poor developer won't be able to sell homes at the price he wants so Magraves should be zoned to CSHS?! I hope I'm misunderstanding the comment because that disgusts me. Let's think about the kids and families (and maybe even current home values) rather than this poor developer that may not be able to get the prices he wants. That should affect zoning decisions? Wow!
ags4rocks
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I think someone mentioned this a while ago but what is holding us back from having back to having one high school.. have 9/10 at a school and 11/12 at a school.. we could just call them the cats and be maroon and purple.. other major schools have adopted and I know it would be a challenge with extracurricular activities..

Cayman
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Are they going to address the middle school split at a later date? Still don't understand how having two middle schools approximately 80/20 helps any student. I thought they were on track to go to one 50/50 and the other two Consol/CSHS.
Stupe
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S
Quote:

I hope I'm misunderstanding the comment because that disgusts me.
If you are talking about my comments, then you completely misunderstood them.

My point is that if they zone that area for Consol and are basing that decision on future students living there, it may not be an accurate prediction. If there is a house in Creek Meadows or Castlegate that is of equal size and price, which commute would do you think parents would choose?
The neighborhoods that can drive right across Fitch, or the neighborhood where they have to drive from Greens Prairie to 2818 / Welsh?

I understand the concerns of the developer, but that had nothing to do with what I posted.
AggieMom_38
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Can you clarify a bit more... Are you saying Margraves be zoned for CSHS because if not, few will buy there because as no one wants to commute? So, instead other options are better because people have already bought so they will just be forced to commute.

I'm truly not trying to be argumentative; I am just confused about why Margraves would be zoned for a HS already over capacity. And, if it's about commute, then the argument implies Indian Lakes and Nantucket be automatically taken off the table for consol too since they are further south.
 
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