CSISD proposed boundary adjustments [Second Staff Warning on OP]

101,332 Views | 858 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by Oogway
Oogway
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Room mom didn't get it in the Friday Folder?

IIRC, it comes out in the spring just like the papers at the beginning of the year for seasonal worker families came in the packets we would have to fill out. I am trying to remember if I did it for ms/hs recently. So happy a lot of that is online now....
RGRAg1/75
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Oogway said:

Room mom didn't get it in the Friday Folder?

IIRC, it comes out in the spring just like the papers at the beginning of the year for seasonal worker families came in the packets we would have to fill out. I am trying to remember if I did it for ms/hs recently. So happy a lot of that is online now....

Maybe, but three years without seeing one would be an out of the ordinary kind of occurance.
Ratsa
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Stupe said:

Quote the post where I said that.
Obviously you didn't say that. I was asking why you are calling out Wendy for making that argument but not also calling out MTTANK for making basically the same argument three times, vs. Wendy's one time.
Oogway
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Yeah, I don't know then. I am going off my own experience which is that we've filled them out before for out children. Maybe they do it during rezone years? Maybe since elem #10 will be opening soon? It's the schools and they all collect data all the time either for local, state or federal use. Staffing makes sense since they will have the whole teacher intra/inter district transfers, plus retirement, plus new hires to deal with.
Ratsa
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MTTANK said:

If you look at that map a little closer they took the liberty of still taking the chunk of poor consol students that live in walking distance over to cshs. They then even more deliberately removed pebble creek and the east area that is already zoned to consol! If you pulled those manipulating numbers out of the map, you would have more than enough students back at consol to draw a map that makes sense and does not take walkers in close proximity to cshs. The maps and options we are fed are to make us believe there is no way we can draw lines like 99% of the other districts do. Please do not be fooled or tricked into fighting each other over a sham.
Are we talking about the same maps? I'm looking at page 9 of the meeting presentation from April 9th. The map is labeled "High School Option East West Line." I do not see any chunks of students withing walking distance of Consol being sent to CSHS. Consol is the northernmost blue star on the map.

And if you listened to the school board members, they asked for this map specifically to show that simply zoning for proximity doesn't work. Pebble Creek is closer to CSHS than Consol. I understand they already go to Consol, but if proximity is the end-all-be-all, shouldn't it apply to them too?

I am not being fooled into "fighting each other." I am hoping we can all learn from each other to see others' viewpoints and correct any misperceptions we have. For example, I grew up in city with court-ordered busing because the school district fought to maintain segregated schools for 25 years. I was bused 14 miles each way during middle school, and 6 miles each way during intermediate school. Because of that background, being upset over a 6 mile bus ride being turned into a 9 mile bus ride really didn't resonate with me. But reading others' comments on here has helped me see that to a lot of people, it's a huge deal. We all come from different backgrounds and see things in a different light. This forum has the potential to help us all get along and work towards a solution for the whole community.
MTTANK
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The map was rigged to take away students from the east pebble creek area. A line could very easily be drawn to not include cshs walkers across the street from the school by simply keeping PC area the way it already is. I am focused on zoning fro continuity as our community has asked for. The PC area is already zoned for consol, no need to disrupt families or kids continuity there at this point. It also would make sense for the future, as they should be the ones in closest proximity to the new hs when its built. I have not seen one honest option provided. Last time they tried to hack our map up they could not get away with what they wanted. So they decided to get rid of the special committee groups that represent all regions of our community to "streamline" the process of zoning. Then they created FC local in late 2016 as a guideline to themselves, created to allow them to chase down the wealthy neighborhoods they wanted at consol and ship away the poor students they did not want to cshs. Zone for proximity going forward, and NO MORE AT LARGE ELECTIONS THAT CAUSE A MISREPRESENTATION OF OUR COMMUNITY!
GIG 'EM
02skiag
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MTTANK said:

The map was rigged to take away students from the east pebble creek area. A line could very easily be drawn to not include cshs walkers across the street from the school by simply keeping PC area the way it already is. I am focused on zoning fro continuity as our community has asked for. The PC area is already zoned for consol, no need to disrupt families or kids continuity there at this point. It also would make sense for the future, as they should be the ones in closest proximity to the new hs when its built. I have not seen one honest option provided. Last time they tried to hack our map up they could not get away with what they wanted. So they decided to get rid of the special committee groups that represent all regions of our community to "streamline" the process of zoning. Then they created FC local in late 2016 as a guideline to themselves, created to allow them to chase down the wealthy neighborhoods they wanted at consol and ship away the poor students they did not want to cshs. Zone for proximity going forward, and NO MORE AT LARGE ELECTIONS THAT CAUSE A MISREPRESENTATION OF OUR COMMUNITY!


You are misrepresenting nearly every point you try to make. Also, you have zero clue what the overall community thinks which factors are important in regards to zoning. Sure, everyone wants proximity. But I'm sure there are way more than you think, that would agree with me, that making the schools as even as possible, regarding SES, is also important. You are personally facing your neighborhood being rezoned and we get that can be frustrating. Some here actually have good points worth considering, but you choose to only try to demonize the school board. You will never change anyone's mind with that tactic.
AgGirlCO95
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MTTANK said:

The map was rigged to take away students from the east pebble creek area. A line could very easily be drawn to not include cshs walkers across the street from the school by simply keeping PC area the way it already is. I am focused on zoning fro continuity as our community has asked for. The PC area is already zoned for consol, no need to disrupt families or kids continuity there at this point. It also would make sense for the future, as they should be the ones in closest proximity to the new hs when its built. I have not seen one honest option provided. Last time they tried to hack our map up they could not get away with what they wanted. So they decided to get rid of the special committee groups that represent all regions of our community to "streamline" the process of zoning. Then they created FC local in late 2016 as a guideline to themselves, created to allow them to chase down the wealthy neighborhoods they wanted at consol and ship away the poor students they did not want to cshs. Zone for proximity going forward, and NO MORE AT LARGE ELECTIONS THAT CAUSE A MISREPRESENTATION OF OUR COMMUNITY!
you do realize that some of the people you continue to dismiss over here pay as much in taxes as you do. Guess what? We want to keep it that way. You have continued to preach about proximity for the Low SES students and yourself but then have no problem saying the PC people can just keep doing it. If you really cared about the community you would realize that the housing market on the east side is just as important as yours. You'd realize that our kids going to school in a balanced population instead of one that's becoming more and more tilted is as important as yours. Your agenda continues to become even more and more transparent and it's not right. Fortunately, I'm pretty sure I know what direction the board is headed and it is the opposite direction of your point of view.
csnole
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AgGirlCO95 said:

MTTANK said:

The map was rigged to take away students from the east pebble creek area. A line could very easily be drawn to not include cshs walkers across the street from the school by simply keeping PC area the way it already is. I am focused on zoning fro continuity as our community has asked for. The PC area is already zoned for consol, no need to disrupt families or kids continuity there at this point. It also would make sense for the future, as they should be the ones in closest proximity to the new hs when its built. I have not seen one honest option provided. Last time they tried to hack our map up they could not get away with what they wanted. So they decided to get rid of the special committee groups that represent all regions of our community to "streamline" the process of zoning. Then they created FC local in late 2016 as a guideline to themselves, created to allow them to chase down the wealthy neighborhoods they wanted at consol and ship away the poor students they did not want to cshs. Zone for proximity going forward, and NO MORE AT LARGE ELECTIONS THAT CAUSE A MISREPRESENTATION OF OUR COMMUNITY!
you do realize that some of the people you continue to dismiss over here pay as much in taxes as you do. Guess what? We want to keep it that way. You have continued to preach about proximity for the Low SES students and yourself but then have no problem saying the PC people can just keep doing it. If you really cared about the community you would realize that the housing market on the east side is just as important as yours. You'd realize that our kids going to school in a balanced population instead of one that's becoming more and more tilted is as important as yours. Your agenda continues to become even more and more transparent and it's not right. Fortunately, I'm pretty sure I know what direction the board is headed and it is the opposite direction of your point of view.


Im confused by the rookie's post - are you saying that your property values will go down -( therefore your taxes) if they do not even out the low ses students between the two schools? MTanks point is to not move the low ses students around because it's not good for the student not for your property tax bill.

And please enlighten us on how you know which way the board is going - Thanks
Stupe
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S
Ratsa said:

Stupe said:

Quote the post where I said that.
Obviously you didn't say that. I was asking why you are calling out Wendy for making that argument but not also calling out MTTANK for making basically the same argument three times, vs. Wendy's one time.
I didn't "call her out", I just used her quote.

That's why I used "people" instead of saying "you".

Plural vs singular.
Oogway
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MTTANK said:

I am focused on zoning fro continuity as our community has asked for. The PC area is already zoned for consol, no need to disrupt families or kids continuity there at this point.


I cut out some of your text for space, but this is where juxtaposition of opposing wants and needs is becoming problematic.

You want continuity? Southgate village has been zoned for CSHS since it opened and at the elementary level since Forest Ridge opened. One of the parents mentioned that she has met with parents there (the cut out neighborhood) I believe. Do all of the residents near or at Southgate Village want to stay at CSHS or go to Consol? I am sure if asked, some PC parents would like to stay at Consol, but others wouldn't mind going to CSHS. Heck, I live in the middle and my family has friends at both schools and we live within walking distance of both. Yet, we didn't have continuity either. So, you can see how mixed up and difficult it is. It isn't going to be simple at all.
tbone94
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MTTANK
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I agree Oogway, it is not simple at all. If you can see how hard it is to make sense of now, wait until the board pulls off option 2bplus. I can't really get a handle on the eastside stance AgGirlCO95. Seems to me I have heard over and over that consol is a better school and has more national merit scholars from this group. Then when something is mentioned about the next new hs needing to go in your area, all of the sudden we find something to agree on. You are for zoning for demographics if it puts more wealthy students at your consol high school, but pitching a fit that if we zone for proximity going forward you want to be zoned to cshs! Seems like whatever suits your personal situation the best you are for, and whatever does not you are ready to pounce. I think I'm understanding why everyone was calling this rezoning "Pebble Creeks Revenge". I am for zoning for proximity going forward, and having equal representation on our school board instead of at large. What was done long ago by the school board, is an entirely new basket to look at and fix. Just like the school boards misuse of millions and millions of tax payer dollars on college view campus..... by the way how is capacity and demographics over there???
GIG 'EM
Three Twenties and A Ten
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AgGirlCO95 said:

MTTANK said:

The map was rigged to take away students from the east pebble creek area. A line could very easily be drawn to not include cshs walkers across the street from the school by simply keeping PC area the way it already is. I am focused on zoning fro continuity as our community has asked for. The PC area is already zoned for consol, no need to disrupt families or kids continuity there at this point. It also would make sense for the future, as they should be the ones in closest proximity to the new hs when its built. I have not seen one honest option provided. Last time they tried to hack our map up they could not get away with what they wanted. So they decided to get rid of the special committee groups that represent all regions of our community to "streamline" the process of zoning. Then they created FC local in late 2016 as a guideline to themselves, created to allow them to chase down the wealthy neighborhoods they wanted at consol and ship away the poor students they did not want to cshs. Zone for proximity going forward, and NO MORE AT LARGE ELECTIONS THAT CAUSE A MISREPRESENTATION OF OUR COMMUNITY!
you do realize that some of the people you continue to dismiss over here pay as much in taxes as you do. Guess what? We want to keep it that way. You have continued to preach about proximity for the Low SES students and yourself but then have no problem saying the PC people can just keep doing it. If you really cared about the community you would realize that the housing market on the east side is just as important as yours. You'd realize that our kids going to school in a balanced population instead of one that's becoming more and more tilted is as important as yours. Your agenda continues to become even more and more transparent and it's not right. Fortunately, I'm pretty sure I know what direction the board is headed and it is the opposite direction of your point of view.
@AgGirlCO95 is this the sentiment of Pebble Creek/Williams Creek/Bird Pond/etc, that Consol is actually becoming a heavily loaded-SES school b/c of the push south by both developers and student rentals, and that puts Consol at a severe disadvantage to CSHS? If so, then this seems to drive the "theory/conspiracy/hypothesis" that Consol residents and Board members want to steer add'l wealth to Consol, while making sure that CSHS carries their "fair share" of low-SES "burden" (quoting Ms. Nolan)? I'm sincerely asking, b/c the statement and wording of the sentence seem to indicate this by use of the verbiage, "balanced population".

As one poster previously stated, "Consol doesn't get charter buses to away games, etc.", like CSHS does, due to the amount or lack thereof, of their 'booster budget'. Pulling in higher income/tax-paying homes certainly helps to drive the "theory/conspiracy/hypothesis" of these objectives, especially if Consol already "wins" in the academics area.
02skiag
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Three Twenties and A Ten
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02skiag said:

csag97 said:

AgGirlCO95 said:

MTTANK said:

The map was rigged to take away students from the east pebble creek area. A line could very easily be drawn to not include cshs walkers across the street from the school by simply keeping PC area the way it already is. I am focused on zoning fro continuity as our community has asked for. The PC area is already zoned for consol, no need to disrupt families or kids continuity there at this point. It also would make sense for the future, as they should be the ones in closest proximity to the new hs when its built. I have not seen one honest option provided. Last time they tried to hack our map up they could not get away with what they wanted. So they decided to get rid of the special committee groups that represent all regions of our community to "streamline" the process of zoning. Then they created FC local in late 2016 as a guideline to themselves, created to allow them to chase down the wealthy neighborhoods they wanted at consol and ship away the poor students they did not want to cshs. Zone for proximity going forward, and NO MORE AT LARGE ELECTIONS THAT CAUSE A MISREPRESENTATION OF OUR COMMUNITY!
you do realize that some of the people you continue to dismiss over here pay as much in taxes as you do. Guess what? We want to keep it that way. You have continued to preach about proximity for the Low SES students and yourself but then have no problem saying the PC people can just keep doing it. If you really cared about the community you would realize that the housing market on the east side is just as important as yours. You'd realize that our kids going to school in a balanced population instead of one that's becoming more and more tilted is as important as yours. Your agenda continues to become even more and more transparent and it's not right. Fortunately, I'm pretty sure I know what direction the board is headed and it is the opposite direction of your point of view.
@AgGirlCO95 is this the sentiment of Pebble Creek/Williams Creek/Bird Pond/etc, that Consol is actually becoming a heavily loaded-SES school b/c of the push south by both developers and student rentals, and that puts Consol at a severe disadvantage to CSHS? If so, then this seems to drive the "theory/conspiracy/hypothesis" that Consol residents and Board members want to steer add'l wealth to Consol, while making sure that CSHS carries their "fair share" of low-SES "burden" (quoting Ms. Nolan)? I'm sincerely asking, b/c the statement and wording of the sentence seem to indicate this by use of the verbiage, "balanced population".

As one poster previously stated, "Consol doesn't get charter buses to away games, etc.", like CSHS does, due to the amount or lack thereof, of their 'booster budget'. Pulling in higher income/tax-paying homes certainly helps to drive the "theory/conspiracy/hypothesis" of these objectives, especially if Consol already "wins" in the academics area.


That's a ridiculous take on her post. Anyone can put there own positive or negative spin on any of the zoning solutions. Doing what you are trying to do is dishonest. Just like I could say that anyone that wants to zone by proximity alone wants segregation. While that may be the actual result of proximity zoning it doesn't mean that is what someone is arguing for.
wow, @02skiag....chill out...I'm pretty sure it was a logical and non-threatening question, hence my statement of "I'm sincerely asking...explanation of your wording". I don't read between the lines and make assumptions in person or on message boards, which is why I ask questions. How am I being "dishonest" when I put my question out there for her to have an opportunity to respond to? I don't see anything "dishonest" with that.

Appreciate your apparent concern, but instead of attacking others, why don't you contribute to the civil dialogue and let @AgGirlCO95 speak for herself (unless you are related and have had this conversation with her).
02skiag
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I would not doubt that they want things relatively equal on both ends for various reasons.

Edit: yeah I deleted that post as I either misread it or thought I was replying to someone else.
Ratsa
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Stupe said:

Ratsa said:

Stupe said:

Quote the post where I said that.
Obviously you didn't say that. I was asking why you are calling out Wendy for making that argument but not also calling out MTTANK for making basically the same argument three times, vs. Wendy's one time.
I didn't "call her out", I just used her quote.

That's why I used "people" instead of saying "you".

Plural vs singular.
Well, then, you have my apologies. I guess I read tone into your comment that you didn't intend.
AgGirlCO95
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My verbiage isn't about any theory or conspiracy. This is about the objectives of csisd zoning. The objectives that were put in place in 2010 when the the two HS were first zoned. The objectives that are why we were zoned out to Consol in the first place. Like it or not, SES balance between schools is what they have said they will try to achieve each time they re-zone but unfortunately they have continued to be imbalanced. They have once again said this is an objective as well as reducing the total population at CSHS. So you tell me where you pull kids from to go to Consol that meets BOTH of these objectives?
ZFG
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Let me start by making myself clear that this is just my opinion provided for insight so that some Consol
zoned readers "get" what this looks like to some of us from the other side. I know y'all have your own side too.

There have been numerous mentions of the PC/WC/BP/Maroon "revenge/agenda/etc..." over the years. Based on many of the complaints mentioned (financial, property values, realtor tours, people moving west & out of maroon areas) and the fact that purple zoned high value areas are being targeted for rezoning, it DOES APPEAR to many people zoned for CSHS that this is more about money that what is best for the kids. There ARE already lots of high property value areas currently zoned maroon (PC, WC, Bird Pond area, Estates of Lick Creek, Peach Creek, Carter Lake area, estate areas of Sandstone and Foxfire, Quail Run Estates, Great Oaks & the "River" areas). Sure CSHS has high property value areas zoned to it, but certainly no more than are zoned to Consol. What happens to CSHS if it loses those areas? If this is truly about balancing LOW SES and Capacity numbers why is what areas are moved from CSHS so important? Because there are other areas that meet the numbers that aren't so far away (or is the "make them drive too" what's important?).

It SEEMS like many people on the maroon side have very little regard for what happens to the students on the purple side that get rezoned (uprooted from everything they know & separated from their friends) and don't think continuity is important because the majority of areas zoned to Consol have NEVER been rezoned. Until you have walked in our shoes and had to repeatedly calm the concerns/worries/fears of your kids about where they are going to go to high school next year and how many friends will be going with them, you don't know how bad it sucks!

I'm not arguing that many areas zoned to Consol don't have a significant drive time/proximity issue. The fact is that people have a choice where they live and clearly many have chosen to live in areas that have been zoned for CSHS. People who chose to live in maroon zoned areas made that choice for themselves as well. It's not like most of those areas were zoned for CSHS and then were changed. The majority have ALWAYS been zoned to Consol. Imagine if the roles were reversed and low SES was being addressed (as it is), I can almost guarantee that if any plan showed just moving WC, BP & Carter Lakes, Peach Creek, (I don't mention PC even though it is high value because it is so large...and large groups of kids being rezoned together doesn't hurt as kids as badly) there would be an uproar heard all the way in Houston. Why? Because then the maroon side would know what the purple side is feeling.

If all of this is really about property values, going to the "shiny" school, dwindling neighborhoods because people are moving to the other side, etc, wouldn't it make more sense to be fighting FOR the next high school to be built in your area INSTEAD of fighting to shuffle everyone in town for a temporary fix? Let's face it, if the next HS is built where it is being proposed, that's where the new growth will be and this whole cycle will keep continuing every couple of years. If you built it, they will come could be pretty applicable in this situation. If you want more $$$ and growth in your area, why aren't you fighting for that?

I'm sure this post will ruffle some feathers but posters have mentioned understanding other people's sides and opinions and this is mine.

Edit- my intention is not to ruffle feathers or argue but simply to provide an alternative point of view
EVA3
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AG
ZFG said:

Let me start by making myself clear that this is just my opinion provided for insight so that some Consol
zoned readers "get" what this looks like to some of us from the other side. I know y'all have your own side too.

There have been numerous mentions of the PC/WC/BP/Maroon "revenge/agenda/etc..." over the years. Based on many of the complaints mentioned (financial, property values, realtor tours, people moving west & out of maroon areas) and the fact that purple zoned high value areas are being targeted for rezoning, it DOES APPEAR to many people zoned for CSHS that this is more about money that what is best for the kids. There ARE already lots of high property value areas currently zoned maroon (PC, WC, Bird Pond area, Estates of Lick Creek, Peach Creek, Carter Lake area, estate areas of Sandstone and Foxfire, Quail Run Estates, Great Oaks & the "River" areas). Sure CSHS has high property value areas zoned to it, but certainly no more than are zoned to Consol. What happens to CSHS if it loses those areas? If this is truly about balancing LOW SES and Capacity numbers why is what areas are moved from CSHS so important? Because there are other areas that meet the numbers that aren't so far away (or is the "make them drive too" what's important?).

It SEEMS like many people on the maroon side have very little regard for what happens to the students on the purple side that get rezoned (uprooted from everything they know & separated from their friends) and don't think continuity is important because the majority of areas zoned to Consol have NEVER been rezoned. Until you have walked in our shoes and had to repeatedly calm the concerns/worries/fears of your kids about where they are going to go to high school next year and how many friends will be going with them, you don't know how bad it sucks!

I'm not arguing that many areas zoned to Consol don't have a significant drive time/proximity issue. The fact is that people have a choice where they live and clearly many have chosen to live in areas that have been zoned for CSHS. People who chose to live in maroon zoned areas made that choice for themselves as well. It's not like most of those areas were zoned for CSHS and then were changed. The majority have ALWAYS been zoned to Consol. I can almost guarantee that if any plan showed just moving WC, BP & Carter Lakes, Peach Creek, (I don't mention PC even though it is high value because it is so large...and large groups of kids being rezoned together doesn't hurt as kids as badly) there would be an uproar heard all the way in Houston. Why? Because then the maroon side would know what the purple side is feeling.

If all of this is really about property values, going to the "shiny" school, dwindling neighborhoods because people are moving to the other side, etc, wouldn't it make more sense to be fighting FOR the next high school to be built in your area INSTEAD of fighting to shuffle everyone in town for a temporary fix? Let's face it, if the next HS is built where it is being proposed, that's where the new growth will be and this whole cycle will keep continuing every couple of years. If you built it, they will come could be pretty applicable in this situation. If you want more $$$ and growth in your area, why aren't you fighting for that?

I'm sure this post will ruffle some feathers but posters have mentioned understanding other people's sides and opinions and this is mine.


Oogway
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[Please keep this discussion on topic. Thank you. -Staff]
AgGirlCO95
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I never said I wanted to be zoned for CSHS. Trust me. I don't want my kids going to a school that is over crowded. I have said I'd be just fine if they left things alone but they aren't going to do that.
Please don't put words in my mouth. I challenged you on your continued push for proximity when you kept talking about the low SES kids around Consol as well as yourself and asked if you really felt like proximity should be the driving process it must mean you think people out east should be zoned for CSHS too- that would make sense if that is what you support right? But then you said you think Pebble and surrounding should still go to Consol. So once again I am confused. "Pebble Creek Revenge" ??????? Lol. Ok.
EVA3
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AG
A challenge for you.

(1) Pull up all of the "options" and open each in its own browser tab.

(2) Click through the tabs and make note of which areas never change color.

(3) Plot the homes of the board members.

(4) Look at what areas are being developed. Who is developing them? Hint: Look into zoning changes in the past few years.

(5) Look at how board members and/or their families stand to gain in this.

(6) Follow the money.

This will tell you all you need to know.
02skiag
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AG
It's a conspiracy man!
Oogway
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I do believe I understand where you are coming from. While the east side and south side have been going back and forth, it was the initial east west line drawn in 2010 that had the middle of town in an uproar. And again in 2016 when it became apparent that it was going to have to go farther south. Proximity in that part of town has always been an issue and it split elementary schools and so on.

So, yeah, even when you know a rezoning is going to happen and has to happen, understanding why someone has a different perspective is important. But I don't think any of us should be accusing anyone else of conspiracy and revenge because what all this boils down to is that few of us are as altruistic in real life as we are on the internet.


I don't know you and you don't know me and we could all be kind hearted charitable people who put others first before ourselves or not. The Board is tasked with trying to make a decision that affects more than 13,000 students, their families, their employers, and random strangers who happen to go to college here, too.

Personally it would make no sense to me for this 'revenge' thing, although I believe I understand what you mean by that. It would seem crazy to me to treat someone in a way they felt was shabby and ignored their perspective and then invite them to attend the very place they didn't want to go.

Conversely, I can see why the PC parents feel like no one takes their comparable composition viewpoint into account. They have had overcrowded schools for years (I remember Wendy1990 posting on here years ago talking about Oakwood and AMCMS being crowded and having portables while at the same time the schools were struggling with high numbers of economically disadvantaged students being paired with new teachers who had been hired to meet the demand. Not a good match.

People may not agree, but it is good to try and listen. I think the lack of tone in text does make for some issues on this board though. It is easy to take something as sarcastic or dismissive when there is no intent to do so.

Oogway
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Wallace Phillips is a board member?

Edit to add-seriously, that is who is doing a lot of developing in the area along with OG group. Instead of going all 'connect the dots,' try explaining the connection with illustrated facts because otherwise it becomes too much innuendo in my mind.
Ratsa
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Thank you for sharing your concerns. I also live in the CSHS zone, in the "midtown" area under consideration for rezoning. But unless they don't grandfather existing high schoolers, which I'm not expecting, this won't affect my kids.

I get your kid's fears. I think one drawback to this new method of rezoning, as compared to the old committee method, is that everything is being done out in the open. While I think this is better than doing everything in secret, I can also see how the fear of the unknown, especially as it drags out during the decision-making process, can be rough on students and their families.

That being said, I just can't see building a new school now, or even expanding CSHS now, when we have room for 600 - 700 more students at Consol. Beyond the debt that would require just to build a 3rd school, then we would have to have a 3rd principal, a 3rd set of assistant principals, a 3rd librarian, a 3rd nurse, a 3rd SRO, etc., who all have to be paid regularly.

Ideally I would like to see middle-income neighborhoods moved to Consol. Consol seems to have a good portion of students from high-income families, and a good portion of students from low-income families. Those middle-income areas are not as pronounced in the Consol zone, from what I can see. I got the impression, from watching the last school board workshop, that this is what the school board wants as well. I watched the workshop online, and there are times where microphones cut out, and I missed what certain board members said, but I really got no sense of this being a money grab from CSHS. I think the difficulty is that once you get outside of walking distance from CSHS, it is very difficult to find a middle income neighborhood that isn't already zoned to Consol. If you have suggestions for such a neighborhood, please let me know. And maybe a board member will read it here and ask for another map from the administration (wink, wink).

As for your comment about fighting for money and growth in the Consol zone, I'm not sure I understand that. How does a homeowner or parent do that? Did you fight for money and growth in your zone?
AggieMom_38
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AgGirlCO95 said:

My verbiage isn't about any theory or conspiracy. This is about the objectives of csisd zoning. The objectives that were put in place in 2010 when the the two HS were first zoned. The objectives that are why we were zoned out to Consol in the first place. Like it or not, SES balance between schools is what they have said they will try to achieve each time they re-zone but unfortunately they have continued to be imbalanced. They have once again said this is an objective as well as reducing the total population at CSHS. So you tell me where you pull kids from to go to Consol that meets BOTH of these objectives?
It's interesting that this keeps being framed as the "objective" of zoning. As if this is the obvious purpose of rezoning that must be accomplished - redistribute low SES kids. First, simply because it's an objective of the board doesn't make it appropriate - it's not like it's some law or state policy that this is how zoning MUST be done. And, obviously many people (including many on this forum) do not agree with the objective. And obviously many/most districts do not do it this way. In addition, I have yet to see any data that suggests it's an effective (i.e., for the students!) objective. All the evidence provided (actual evidence, not conjecture and/or studies based on very different types of cities with very different types of low SES) suggest it's not beneficial for the students. But I also wonder about the board's focus on comparable composition at this point. Anyone that has been involved in this process for any period of time (such as 2010 zoning and most recent rezone in 2015) knows full well that Consol/Oakwood/AMCMS parents were the ones pushing for the economic disparity to be "fixed." Remember those forums? Remember the email campaign many of us participated in? The board actually kept focusing on overcapacity being the issue for the behavioral problems - and that once the new intermediate and MS opened, things would improve for the maroon schools. I remember this because I remember sending my form email in when asked by certain Pebble Creek parents - to give examples of various issues my kids experienced (kids cursing, fights...) In truth I'm sure that all happens on the purple side too. But we had a concerted effort to influence the board to fix things so that purple schools would also have more of our presumed "problems." So now the board is focusing on shuffling high and low SES kids around. I guess maroon side won. Not sure the kids did!

02skiag
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AG
AggieMom_38 said:

AgGirlCO95 said:

My verbiage isn't about any theory or conspiracy. This is about the objectives of csisd zoning. The objectives that were put in place in 2010 when the the two HS were first zoned. The objectives that are why we were zoned out to Consol in the first place. Like it or not, SES balance between schools is what they have said they will try to achieve each time they re-zone but unfortunately they have continued to be imbalanced. They have once again said this is an objective as well as reducing the total population at CSHS. So you tell me where you pull kids from to go to Consol that meets BOTH of these objectives?
It's interesting that this keep being framed as the "objective" of zoning. As if this is the obvious purpose of rezoning that must be accomplished - redistribute low SES ids. First, simply because it's an objective of the board doesn't make it appropriate - it's not like it's some law or policy that this is how zoning MUST be done. And, obviously many people (including many on this forum) do not agree with the objective. In addition, I have yet to see any data that suggests it's an effective (i.e., for the students!) objective. All the evidence provided (actual evidence, not conjecture and/or studies based on very different types of cities with very different types of low SES) suggest it's not beneficial for the students. But I also wonder about the board's focus on comparable composition at this point. Anyone that has been involved in this process for any period of time (such as 2010 zoning and most recent rezone in 2015) knows full well that Consol/Oakwood/AMCMS parents were the ones pushing for the economic disparity to be "fixed." Remember those forums? remember the email campaign many of us participated in? The board actually kept focusing on overcapacity being the issue for the behavioral problems - and that once the new intermediate and MS opened, things would improve for the maroon schools. I remember this because I remember sending my form email in when asked by certain Pebble Creek parents - to give examples of various issues my kids experienced (kids cursing, fights...) In truth I'm sure that all happens on the purple side too. But we had a concerted effort to influence the board to fix things so that purple schools would also have more of our presumed "problems." So now the board is focusing on shuffling high and low SES kids around. I guess maroon side won. Not sure the kids did!




Hold up, I put in research and only found evidence in favor of SES zoning. Please share a link to where you found otherwise.
AggieMom_38
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Sorry you're not following along/misunderstanding. Maybe you don't remember prior posts.... The district's data doesn't show any benefit to our low SES kids by bussing them just smooths out the numbers across schools. And there's also ample evidence (meta analysis conducted) that shows moving kids has a negative effect on math and reading (look up John Hattie's book Visible LearningHattie is a very reputable/respected educational researcher. And the effects from studies are consistent across groups etc)

Edit: spelling
02skiag
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Tigermom84 said:

Here is the ugly truth IN CSISD. In summary, across all grades and all subjects, 75% of Texas students perform at or above grade level, 82% of CSISD students perform at or above grade level, and 64% of Economically disadvantaged students perform at or above grade level.

https://1.cdn.edl.io/jjd23ckrdxlCasej4tabEue9BZJgWYXQs43Bx2YScTP5NFui.pdf

These are the numbers for how our scores compare with other districts across the state. IN EVERY SINGLE GRADE, IN EVERY SINGLE SUBJECT, our Economically Disadvantaged ("Low SES", "ED", in the second to last column of the data) perform below the district AND below the state average. You can put up research reports and articles all day long about how great comparable composition works in OTHER places, but it doesn't work here in CSISD. So why do we keep repeating the same ol thing, and moving people around every 2 years waving a comparable composition flag? 1) To maintain a shell game and spread these test scores out equitably among all the schools to keep one school from looking bad (hence the "we need to keep our schools equal", and "these kids are everyone's burden to bear" as stated by or board member and by some on this post). Also, 2) to make ourselves feel better that med-high SES kids are getting exposure to diversity, and low SES kids get a better education by not having to attend their neighborhood school. But the ugly truth is that our low SES kids are not getting a better education.

Edit- In my opinion, I don't think this is a reflection on our TEACHERS. We have talented and skilled teachers. I don't think we give them the resources they need (small class sizes, freedom to be creative and involved, money, etc) to develop Low SES students on an individual basis.


Is this the numbers you are referring to? Because this has nothing to do with bussing or zoning by SES. This does not compare two different circumstances: SES zoning before and after.

The research I found shows SES zoning helps the low SES kids with test scores and getting into college.
TAMU1990
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EVA3 said:

A challenge for you.

(1) Pull up all of the "options" and open each in its own browser tab.

(2) Click through the tabs and make note of which areas never change color.

(3) Plot the homes of the board members.

(4) Look at what areas are being developed. Who is developing them? Hint: Look into zoning changes in the past few years.

(5) Look at how board members and/or their families stand to gain in this.

(6) Follow the money.

This will tell you all you need to know.
Why is this crazy? Because the majority of board members kids are already graduated (empty nesters) or are/will be upperclassmen in both schools. There is only 1 board member with young kids.

The areas that change color are CSHS zones = because they are trying to get kids out of CSHS. Not a big conspiracy here.

The money grab argument is inflammatory and nonsense. 2b or 2a will most likely be the option.
AggieMom_38
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The district has the data ask them for it. The research you are likely looking at is not similar to our situation in CS (you really think moving kids from a good school like consol to a good school
like CSHS benefits them particularly when the latter school is overcapacity)

Quick and easy email to Dr Ealy as to whether low SES kids improve on substantive educational outcomes when bussed
MTTANK
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Good ole skiag to the rescue with some deep thoughts on the matter as always. There are many studies, after listening to Oogways point of view I decided to read through them. Its an interesting subject honestly. I found some cases with real world numbers that showed improvement for students, but could not find any that were even close to "comparable" to CSISD. Lots of large population inner city stuff, 90% SES Free lunch at one school and 10% at the other. The best student improvement example I found was some work done in Seattle, its what told me maybe there could be something to it. Again, this was a way different situation that was using a school in an area where the cheapest house that could be purchased was around a million bucks, and it was in close proximity to a very very poor area with no homeowners and all hud. It was an entirely high density type of area zoned in the same district with two way different student populations. I've been swayed, and am not entirely just for zoning for proximity only and look at nothing else anymore. Everything inside me says its wrong to use SES, but I have figured out thats because of where I have lived my adult life(College Station). We are simply not in this type of situation. We make where I went to school actually look like compton (Killeen). With that being said, Killeen is not even close to needing to implement this free lunch nonsense either(they zone for proximity). I think 99% or more of the time, proximity is the way to go. Nothing wrong with using SES or free lunch demos to sprinkle in and pick somewhere a few blocks over or something. I think what cannot be digested is using it as the #1 factor, with proximity being thrown out the window. It would have to be a seattle or compton situation to even consider it. Again, thats why over 99% of texas school districts zone with proximity as a guide. Its about continuity for families and kids in the end, not winning popularity contests between schools.
GIG 'EM
 
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