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COCS Road Maintenance

AFM
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Is there a way to make suggestion on which roads the city need to fix? The city has been doing a lot of street re-surfacing after implementing the roadway maintenance fee, but mainly on roads that already look quite alright IMO.


AggieBarstool
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You could try this: http://cstx.gov/index.aspx?recordid=115&page=3086
txgardengirl
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Are you referencing the roadway fee that starts billing in December?

I'm pretty sure repairs you are seeing now were funded long ago - and many of them are being done in order to make repairs to what is under the road...
MeKnowNot
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My suggestion:

Make Rock Prairie Road east-bound two lane for another ~100 feet between the Valero and the Scott & White Hospital Entrance.

It would have been a simple project to take care of while they were doing all the other Rock Prairie Road improvements that would have greatly enhanced the safety and traffic flow for minimal additional cost.

ukbb2003
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txgardengirl said:

Are you referencing the roadway fee that starts billing in December?

I'm pretty sure repairs you are seeing now were funded long ago - and many of them are being done in order to make repairs to what is under the road...


December??? Been on my bill for several months now.
TxElsie
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AG
A lot of resurfacing is preventative maintenance. Like changing the oil in your engine, it extends the lifespan of a street before it needs to be rebuilt.

A bit of a read, but this might help...
http://www.pavementinteractive.org/2013/05/27/pavement-maintenance-prevention-or-repair/
UmustBKidding
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What mayor moonbeam was on kbtx promoting his walks one of his claims was he was able to get pavement issues address by public works that were called to his attention. Think he is doing one soon between jersey and holeman.
PS3D
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MeKnowNot said:

My suggestion:

Make Rock Prairie Road east-bound two lane for another ~100 feet between the Valero and the Scott & White Hospital Entrance.

It would have been a simple project to take care of while they were doing all the other Rock Prairie Road improvements that would have greatly enhanced the safety and traffic flow for minimal additional cost.


What really needs to be done is improvements to Rock Prairie and Wellborn. They need to add half a lane to both sides of the road (or one lane to one side, depends on how they can get right of way). Use it to lengthen the left hand turn lane (tearing out some more median to the east to do so) and perhaps add a second left hand turn lane on the east side, and for the west side, the crossing can be reconfigured to allow three lanes crossing the railroad and two lanes able to go east across Wellborn. Also, add a median to prevent Old Wellborn from crossing Rock Prairie, with an alleyway linking Aggieland Lighting with Wellborn Road Vet for access.

Maybe they can do all of this in conjunction with four laning Rock Prairie Road West and Holleman Drive South.
TLIAC
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AG
I imagine that everyone would have great suggestions.......based on the roads they use most. Meaning what is important to one citizen, won't necessarily be important to another citizen. That would pretty much be a no win situation.
MeKnowNot
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TLIAC said:

I imagine that everyone would have great suggestions.......based on the roads they use most. Meaning what is important to one citizen, won't necessarily be important to another citizen. That would pretty much be a no win situation.
Good point. If we can't fix all the roads, we really should not fix any of them. That would be the fairest thing to do for everyone!
Kitten With A Whip
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Well, quite frankly, I would like to cross Texas Avenue, on George Bush going West bound without blowing the shocks off my car!!! I rarely use that route, but will certainly avoid it now! There should never be an intersection done that badly!
duffelpud
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AG
I think I heard that this 'revenue stream' (aka 'confiscatory tax') rakes in $12 million over five years.
"What's this button do?"
BCS-Ag
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PS3D said:

MeKnowNot said:

My suggestion:

Make Rock Prairie Road east-bound two lane for another ~100 feet between the Valero and the Scott & White Hospital Entrance.

It would have been a simple project to take care of while they were doing all the other Rock Prairie Road improvements that would have greatly enhanced the safety and traffic flow for minimal additional cost.


What really needs to be done is improvements to Rock Prairie and Wellborn. They need to add half a lane to both sides of the road (or one lane to one side, depends on how they can get right of way). Use it to lengthen the left hand turn lane (tearing out some more median to the east to do so) and perhaps add a second left hand turn lane on the east side, and for the west side, the crossing can be reconfigured to allow three lanes crossing the railroad and two lanes able to go east across Wellborn. Also, add a median to prevent Old Wellborn from crossing Rock Prairie, with an alleyway linking Aggieland Lighting with Wellborn Road Vet for access.

Maybe they can do all of this in conjunction with four laning Rock Prairie Road West and Holleman Drive South.
Too bad the taxpayer has to foot the bill for this. We had the opportunity for Weingarten/Walmart to pay for these upgrades years ago but we ran them off...
Oogway
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Meh, I don't even live on the Eastside, but I was happy Walmart ended up rehabbing their location.
TLIAC
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AG
MeKnowNot said:

TLIAC said:

I imagine that everyone would have great suggestions.......based on the roads they use most. Meaning what is important to one citizen, won't necessarily be important to another citizen. That would pretty much be a no win situation.
Good point. If we can't fix all the roads, we really should not fix any of them. That would be the fairest thing to do for everyone!
Really, you know good and well that is not what I was saying. I will add that many of the roadways that people are listing here are TxDot controlled roadways so blaming COCS is blaming the wrong entity.
PS3D
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TLIAC said:

MeKnowNot said:

TLIAC said:

I imagine that everyone would have great suggestions.......based on the roads they use most. Meaning what is important to one citizen, won't necessarily be important to another citizen. That would pretty much be a no win situation.
Good point. If we can't fix all the roads, we really should not fix any of them. That would be the fairest thing to do for everyone!
Really, you know good and well that is not what I was saying. I will add that many of the roadways that people are listing here are TxDot controlled roadways so blaming COCS is blaming the wrong entity.
Correct. The following are TxDOT roads, and coincidentally the ones everyone complains about:
Wellborn Road
Harvey Mitchell Pkwy.
Texas Avenue
George Bush Drive
College Avenue (CS portion)
University Drive
Harvey Road

Rock Prairie Road, Holleman Drive South, Barron Road, Greens Prairie Trail, and Southwest Parkway the rare few that are at least four lanes but aren't TxDOT controlled.
Oogway
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Does anyone know what the story is behind Renee Lane? (north of Barron, parallel to Victoria)

I was biking down that road recently and it is this skinny little thing with no sidewalks and mailboxes right at the edge, most of which look like they've been knocked over multiple times. How was the developer able to essentially lay down a sheet of asphalt when the surrounding neighborhood looks like the rest of south CS? Was this one of the sections that was built prior to annexation? It isn't a private road (or I wouldn't travel on it), so I was wondering why it resembled neighborhoods closer to campus that are somewhat difficult to navigate on foot or bicycle due to the lack of sidewalks/narrowness of road. Seems kind of dangerous for students with it being so close to the school and all.
Vox Humana
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Renee Lane was a road in the County before it annexation. It does not meet City design standards. Not unlike roads in the Foxfire subdivision. It can be brought up to the current standards of the adjacent property owners want to petition the City. The property owners would have to participate in the cost of construction of the new street.
Oogway
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Thanks for the info! I wondered if that was the case (pre-annexation). Some of the homes look older than the ones on what appear to be subdivided land. Is this street where the low income housing is going in?
moneyinthebananastand
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Quote:

The property owners would have to participate in the cost of construction of the new street.

Uh, aren't we already doing that in spades?
Rexter
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My memory is a bit foggy, but I seem to recall that when Longmire was extended the property owner where the school is going in got hit with fees to help build the road....and to add insult to injury, the property value went up due to road frontage so his tax bill went up as well.
Oogway
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So, to make sure I understand this properly:
The road impact fee that I pay (as a home owner) are only for maintenance of existing roads. Correct?
And the new road impact fee (the one that Councilman Benham voted against) is for new roads or traffic needs that new development requires to reduce the gosh awful congestion? This is the fee that is assessed when a homebuilder pulls a permit to build. Correct?

This would apply in city limits only or does it include the ETJ?

If this was repealed, would it go back to all property owners in town paying for the new roads if say, a large development goes in south of Greens Prairie and west of Arrington? Not the roads in the development (if a developer has to pay those) but any exterior roads, widening of roads, traffic signal operations, etc?

Thanks for clearing up any confusion.
Vox Humana
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In a new residential development, the developer pays for the cost of the residential street construction. That cost is passed along in the cost of the lot. A curb & gutter street adds to the adjacent property's value. In the case where an existing residential gravel road, like Renee Lane, is annexed, the City will eventually put an asphalt overlay on the road for safety, fire department access and maintenance purposes. If the residents on that road want it to be upgraded to add curb and gutter, storm drains and possibly sidewalks, those residents should have to pay part of that cost. Those improvements do not benefit the citizens at large but do benefit the residents who want those improvements so the citizens at large should not have to pay for the entire cost of those improvements. There is a City ordinance that covers this petition paving process. I think it is a fair way to do business.

My understanding is that the road impact fee that Oogway refers to (as a homeowner) is actually the Roadway Maintenance Fee. It is basically a tax based on the traffic generated by each property. The idea is that those revenues would be dedicated to maintenance of existing roadways. Prior to the implementation of this new tax roadway maintenance was paid for out of the general fund. Roadway maintenance had to compete with Fire, PD, Parks and Planning for annual funding. Shifting the street maintenance to the fee made more dollars available for the other general fund uses.

I see this as both a good and bad thing. On the bad side the new "fee" was a tax increase in disguise. Nobody would support a tax increase for street maintenance but would for better fire protection, safety or law enforcement. Those first responders are saints. ;-) and we should always give them anything they say that they need. Never mind that the first responders respond via those roads that will eventually fail if we don't take care of them. On the good side, if we can keep other hands out of the funds, the dedicated funding stream should provide reliable resources for critical street maintenance. This is an improvement over continuing to defer street maintenance in lieu of other general fund needs.

The Roadway Impact Fee is a fee paid by developers to cover the cost of construction of new roadways or widening of existing roadways made necessary by the traffic generated by new development. I only see this as a good thing. The citizens at large should not bear the cost of construction for roadway capacity that would not be needed but for the new development. The beneficiary of the new roadway is primarily the new development.
agnerd
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AG
Vox Humana said:

If the residents on that road want it to be upgraded to add curb and gutter, storm drains and possibly sidewalks, those residents should have to pay part of that cost. Those improvements do not benefit the citizens at large but do benefit the residents who want those improvements so the citizens at large should not have to pay for the entire cost of those improvements.
Except that those people didn't ask to be annexed and they didn't ask to pay city taxes. They purchased homes outside the city limits without city taxes. When the city CHOSE to annex them against their will and collect taxes, they took on the responsibility of extending every courtesy that has ever been extended to any resident, including the courtesy of providing curb and gutter streets and sidewalks to meet city standards. The city did provide these before they began expanding beyond what they could afford. If a city doesn't want this responsibility, they need to stop taking people's property or stop taxing this land until all city services and infrastructure is in place.
PS3D
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agnerd said:

Vox Humana said:

If the residents on that road want it to be upgraded to add curb and gutter, storm drains and possibly sidewalks, those residents should have to pay part of that cost. Those improvements do not benefit the citizens at large but do benefit the residents who want those improvements so the citizens at large should not have to pay for the entire cost of those improvements.
Except that those people didn't ask to be annexed and they didn't ask to pay city taxes. They purchased homes outside the city limits without city taxes. When the city CHOSE to annex them against their will and collect taxes, they took on the responsibility of extending every courtesy that has ever been extended to any resident, including the courtesy of providing curb and gutter streets and sidewalks to meet city standards. The city did provide these before they began expanding beyond what they could afford. If a city doesn't want this responsibility, they need to stop taking people's property or stop taxing this land until all city services and infrastructure is in place.
That is incorrect. Renee Lane was annexed in 1995 [http://www.cstx.gov/Modules/ShowDocument.aspx?documentid=15483] but still retained its rural look and feel for a number of years afterward. (Around 2005 this started to change, when a portion of Renee was removed for Santour Court and the houses around it). The newer houses closer to Barron Road were built around 2007 or later.
Vox Humana
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When the city CHOSE to annex them against their will and collect taxes, they took on the responsibility of extending every courtesy that has ever been extended to any resident, including the courtesy of providing curb and gutter streets and sidewalks to meet city standards.

The City (citizens at large) does not extend the curb and gutter courtesy. If your house is on a street with curb & gutter it was paid for by the owner of that house. The cost of development of that street was included in the lot price when it was sold to the builder.

Annexation policies, past and present, are a whole different conversation. One where we might agree.
agnerd
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AG
Vox Humana said:

The City (citizens at large) does not extend the curb and gutter courtesy. If your house is on a street with curb & gutter it was paid for by the owner of that house. The cost of development of that street was included in the lot price when it was sold to the builder.
NOW it is, but it didn't used to be. The city didn't always use debt to pay for infrastructure. They would use the taxes they collected from existing property taxes to build more streets. Then when houses got built, they used the extra tax revenue to build more streets, all while not carrying debt and paying interest on that debt. Not fair to take their land, force the city's prior poor decisions on those residents, and then ask them to pay for the city's incompetence and inability to pay for proper infrastructure.

If you think that's fair, I have some mortgage debt I would love to force you to have to pay off for me. I won't give you the choice of whether or not you want to pay it. I will just force you to do it. Oh and if you want some of the benefit of paying off my mortgage, I'm also willing to rent you a room. But that will cost extra. If not you'll just have to make due with the benefits I'm willing to give you like letting you have your mail delivered at my address. If you don't want to use the services I provide, well sorry can't help you with that problem. But I expect to be paid anyway.
PS3D
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Vox Humana said:

When the city CHOSE to annex them against their will and collect taxes, they took on the responsibility of extending every courtesy that has ever been extended to any resident, including the courtesy of providing curb and gutter streets and sidewalks to meet city standards.

The City (citizens at large) does not extend the curb and gutter courtesy. If your house is on a street with curb & gutter it was paid for by the owner of that house. The cost of development of that street was included in the lot price when it was sold to the builder.

Annexation policies, past and present, are a whole different conversation. One where we might agree.
Of the existing houses on Renee, there are only two houses on Renee that predate the annexation (these are both small houses on large lots), and only one other predates 2006 when the street began to be redeveloped. I can't find the thread but the developer was supposed to make improvements to Renee when he built the 17 close to Barron Road, but didn't. Annexation really has nothing to do with it.
Oogway
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Thank you for the explanation, Vox Humana.

As far as Renee goes, I don't know what percentage homes are owner occupied, but it is an interesting mix of haphazardness.
rcannaday
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AG
Side note related to those TXDOT roads, from understanding the lights that service them are a D or F grade (similar to school grades), in that they are well over capacity and in need of expansion. Pretty sure those here who drive 2818 anytime around 5pm can express.
Vox Humana
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NOW it is, but it didn't used to be. The city didn't always use debt to pay for infrastructure. They would use the taxes they collected from existing property taxes to build more streets. Then when houses got built, they used the extra tax revenue to build more streets, all while not carrying debt and paying interest on that debt.

That statement is simply incorrect. The City of College Station never developed subdivisions either using debt or pay-as-you-go. The City of College Station has always issued debt for major capital improvements.
Oogway
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Say, for clarity in communication perhaps use quotation marks (" insert text here") when copy and pasting from earlier posts written by others. There is a quote function, but quotation marks work too and help those of us who would like to ensure that we understand the point/view/expression that someone is trying to make. Thanks!
Vox Humana
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Oogway said:

Say, for clarity in communication perhaps use quotation marks (" insert text here") when copy and pasting from earlier posts written by others. There is a quote function, but quotation marks work too and help those of us who would like to ensure that we understand the point/view/expression that someone is trying to make. Thanks!
Okay.
Oogway
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As a topic tangent, has anyone else noticed how close to the road (FM 2154) the new townhome/apts are? The ones going up just south of Luther. Even if that is allowed, which I would presume it to be, does that preclude ever widening the road in the future or would the center turn zone just be eliminated?
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