CS City Council Asking for Property Tax Increase

19,997 Views | 190 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by Stucco
02skiag
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AG
The police station discussion is a slight derail on this thread. As has been stated many times, they just received significant increases in taxes and now they are raising the rate. This decisions shows how completely out of touch the Mayor and the rest of the council are with typical residents. I would love to be plenty well off and able to spend other people's money to mold my town as I see fit in an expidited timeline.
nought
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AG
runawaytrain said:

Part of the reason they need more money is that our dear overlord mayor likes to travel: http://www.theeagle.com/news/local/mayoral-travel-spending-trends-upward-under-karl-mooney/article_4d1ea9fb-1ea1-5810-8bea-888cac008911.html




Thanks for posting this. I'm sure he just couldn't have found a cheaper hotel to stay at in Miami Beach than the Fontainbleau. I get that the conference was there, but there are cheaper hotels reasonably close. Conferences are surprisingly easy to "justify" when you're the one getting to go to fun places for them.

I'm not surprised he signed his name along with a bunch of other mayors to the community block grants letter. After all, where do those community block grant funds come from? That's right, taxpayers' pockets. I suppose he absolutely had to spend the money going to Miami Beach and just couldn't have contributed his name to the letter after making a few phone calls from poor ol' podunk College Station.

I hope the voters do the sensible thing in the next election and go for some radical change in the city council and mayor's office.
UmustBKidding
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Unfortunately his competition in the last election was no better. Saw him at the open house of a builder and he was telling the owner thanks for building all these new houses. Then went on to explain we really need the tax revenue. SO if you are considering moving to CS you wont be a fellow citizen you are just a new source of tax revenue.
You need to know your purpose.
Our-turn-to-rule
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AG
they have discovered they can vote themselves an ever increasing share out of the public treasury....,your pocket....and don't really give a damn about what government should provide but about all the window dressing attention grabbing crap
MeKnowNot
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If my math is correct, with the proposed increase the new College Station tax rate will be as follows:

College Station: $0.49750
Brazos County: $0.48500
CSISD: $1.39600

Total: $2.3785

Assuming that this is the "wrong" tax rate, what would the correct rate be and, more specifically, how would your proposal meet the needs of the community?

Best answer gets you my vote for City Council and/or Mayor!
PS3D
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Quote:

As an FYI, the violent crime rate in CS was higher than Bryan last year...


A homicide can easily change that number. One drug deal gone bad in any given apartment complex in town doesn't mean crime in CS is higher than Bryan (or vice versa).

I'm also curious as to how you get your numbers, because I see police on the roads patrolling every day, and I don't think I've ever been through a school zone without a cop or two (often, but not always, on a motorcycle) hanging around.

College Station probably needs to be flushed of its current administration--there are way too many "slums of tomorrow, today" apartment complexes designed for students going in, no big employers not connected to A&M to help increase wealth and support the tax increase, and not even enough retail to prevent people from going down to Houston. Post Oak Mall has largely fallen into disrepair and is not the major boost it used to be.

We don't have to cut off vital services or stop building things to prevent tax increases. What I would do, first and foremost, is:

1) Stop replacing stoplights that are functional and have been retrofitted with the blinking yellow arrow. Yes, I know the all-black poles look cool but they don't have to be uniform.

2) Stop wasting money with city beautification projects that don't actually make the city better. No one cares about those dozens of trees you planted at University and Highway 6. We especially don't want another "Super. Natural. Goodness." fiasco that wasted money.

3) Stop developing parks that have no demand (Southeast Community Park, basically ranch land next to the landfill).

4) Stop the administrative rigamarole developers claim about CoCS development to encourage commercial development.

Once that happens, then we can start talking about that list again, including a new (or at least expanded) city hall.
AgGunNut
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AG
Homicide is but one crime that comprises violent crime.

And my numbers are first hand knowledge. As for the school zone patrol you referenced, like a previous post of mine stated, there are 4 motors officers currently. There are two vacancies due to changes in assignment and change of employment for someone. Furthermore, they're in the school zones every day because their job is to be there. The motor officers are responsible for running traffic in areas that receive citizen complaints, school zones, and in areas with a statistically higher likelihood of crashes.

As for the rest of your post, I do agree that there is too much spending on non core services.
InMyOpinion
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So many "expert" opinions on how to properly run a city, but how many of you are gonna step up and run for city council?
carpe vinum
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AG
Quit voting for tax & spend progressives if you don't like tax hikes.
It's fairly simple.
HankWalker
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The College Station police station is being designed for 80,000 square feet at $28M, or $350/sq-ft. That construction cost is very competitive with other similarly-sized projects in the area. The intention is for the building to have enough space to last for several decades at the current rate of growth. Anyone who has lived here for any length of time has seen the police department outgrow their space several times, as the city has doubled in size and then doubled again. In terms of size of the police station, Fort Worth has multiple police substations, not one police station, so their total police station space is much higher than the main administration building.

Another discussion alluded to by Mayor Mooney is new city hall vs. renovating the police station as a city hall or at least a city hall annex.
02skiag
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AG
MeKnowNot said:

If my math is correct, with the proposed increase the new College Station tax rate will be as follows:

College Station: $0.49750
Brazos County: $0.48500
CSISD: $1.39600

Total: $2.3785

Assuming that this is the "wrong" tax rate, what would the correct rate be and, more specifically, how would your proposal meet the needs of the community?

Best answer gets you my vote for City Council and/or Mayor!


You are approaching this incorrectly. Have you read any of the thread? The taxpayers have faced significant increases in property values for 2 or more years in a row. Property value increase = pay more taxes. On top of those increases they are increasing it even more with a rate hike.
Omega6464
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Just FYI, those are state rights-of-way and fall under TxDOT's jurisdiction not CS's.
"He who attempts to govern, ploughs the sea" -Simon Bolivar
Omega6464
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techno-ag said:

candyland02 said:

They just got a significant increase in taxes due to property value increases the last two years. If they can't make their budget work from that they need to be replaced.

The citizens are already feeling the burden of those increases, now is an awful time to squeeze them for more money.
Brace for an increase in fees sometime in the future, too.

The only good thing out of all this is more people might see the light and move to Bryan.
Bryan tax rate is .62999 compared to CS's .4725 (proposed .4925).

So you think folks will flee CS for higher taxes in Bryan?

Can you explain your thought process on this?
"He who attempts to govern, ploughs the sea" -Simon Bolivar
isitjustme
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AG
The reason some my leave CS for Bryan is that even though Bryan has a higher property tax rate, their property values in many areas are 20-40% lower for comparable properties in decent areas of town. So you can get lower taxes on the same type of place or same taxes on a nicer place in Bryan vs CS. Plus, you get Bryan's lower utility rates.

Plus if you have young kids and you choose to locate near Johnson, Bowen, Sam Houston, or a couple of other elementary schools you have great schools. Plus there are specialized advanced programs in middle schools (Odyssey, Inquire) and high schools (IB, Collegiate).

Or if your kids are gone/don't have any and you have a lot of $$ and like golf, you can live in Miramont or Traditions.

Or if you want to live in a city with a real downtown or the diversity that CS claims that they want to have, then Bryan could be your fit.

Or if you want to get away from a lot of the crazy student/parent/game day traffic while going to great local eateries, then Bryan might look attractive.

Admittedly, the first paragraph answers your question more directly, but I threw in the others as a bonus.
techno-ag
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AG
Omega6464 said:

techno-ag said:

candyland02 said:

They just got a significant increase in taxes due to property value increases the last two years. If they can't make their budget work from that they need to be replaced.

The citizens are already feeling the burden of those increases, now is an awful time to squeeze them for more money.
Brace for an increase in fees sometime in the future, too.

The only good thing out of all this is more people might see the light and move to Bryan.
Bryan tax rate is .62999 compared to CS's .4725 (proposed .4925).

So you think folks will flee CS for higher taxes in Bryan?

Can you explain your thought process on this?
Added fees, higher utilities, and higher valuations mitigate the so called tax advantage of CStat.

I wouldn't use the word "flee," but I think when weighing all the options Bryan might look attractive to someone considering both.

ETA: agrab beat me to it and said it better.
oklaunion
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Fleeing to Booger County would be even cheaper.
AggiePhil
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AG
duffelpud
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Here's my tin-hat / follow-the-money explanation for what's going on.

Realtors are compensated by percentages on sales, so it is in their interest to list and close on high-dollar homes and properties. One strategy often utilized is to have sellers remodel baths and kitchens in order to make the home "more sellable". The r-o-i for the seller is usually minimal to nada, but the r-o-i for the agent is infinite since their investment is zero.

Now apply this logic to our city government and the real estate professional complex that is joined at its hip. It makes sense for a "citizens" advisory committee packed with real estate professionals to recommend that the city government spend millions and millions on amenities like senior centers, skate parks, new city buildings and parks because, like telling a home seller to redo their kitchen, it doesn't cost the agent a dime but the return is exponential.

It's also like Peter's explanation to Joanna in the movie "Office Space" about taking a penny at the convenience store sales counter. If Peter was on the College Station city council he'd say "That's exactly what raising the tax rate does, except instead of taking one penny, we're just taking a whole bunch of pennies from a whole lot of people".

Carnwellag2
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where do the new candidates stand on this?
InMyOpinion
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agrab86 said:

The reason some my leave CS for Bryan is that even though Bryan has a higher property tax rate, their property values in many areas are 20-40% lower for comparable properties in decent areas of town. So you can get lower taxes on the same type of place or same taxes on a nicer place in Bryan vs CS. Plus, you get Bryan's lower utility rates.


I don't know about the 20-40% lower unless your talking older areas of Bryan. I know of a house in Greenbriar and one in Creek Meadows estates that are exact duplicates. They were built the same year. The only difference is the lot for the Bryan house is 3000 sqft larger. The Bryan house has a tax appraisal that is $15k more.
Omega6464
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AggiePhil said:

http://i46.tinypic.com/2iiu3pe.jpg
This is worth a ditto.
"He who attempts to govern, ploughs the sea" -Simon Bolivar
Ornlu
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AG
My dispute is purely with the $350/SF number. That's NOT competitive, it's completely bloated. Class A office space is running $160/SF. Other institutional projects are less than $200/SF. An appropriate target would be $175/SF which is less than half of their budget. The budget for the new station should be less than $15M.

If the City of College Station would quit asking for the moon, sun, and stars every time there's a public project, they might actually get what they want. Instead, they ask for gold plated everything and us ordinary citizens recognize the lunacy and end up fighting them.
kraut
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InMyOpinion said:

agrab86 said:

The reason some my leave CS for Bryan is that even though Bryan has a higher property tax rate, their property values in many areas are 20-40% lower for comparable properties in decent areas of town. So you can get lower taxes on the same type of place or same taxes on a nicer place in Bryan vs CS. Plus, you get Bryan's lower utility rates.


I don't know about the 20-40% lower unless your talking older areas of Bryan. I know of a house in Greenbriar and one in Creek Meadows estates that are exact duplicates. They were built the same year. The only difference is the lot for the Bryan house is 3000 sqft larger. The Bryan house has a tax appraisal that is $15k more.
If we are talking about 6000 sf vs. 9000 sf, that's a huge difference.

I did the math awhile back. Between the property taxes and utility rates for both cities, it ended up being a wash.
InMyOpinion
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kraut said:

InMyOpinion said:

agrab86 said:

The reason some my leave CS for Bryan is that even though Bryan has a higher property tax rate, their property values in many areas are 20-40% lower for comparable properties in decent areas of town. So you can get lower taxes on the same type of place or same taxes on a nicer place in Bryan vs CS. Plus, you get Bryan's lower utility rates.


I don't know about the 20-40% lower unless your talking older areas of Bryan. I know of a house in Greenbriar and one in Creek Meadows estates that are exact duplicates. They were built the same year. The only difference is the lot for the Bryan house is 3000 sqft larger. The Bryan house has a tax appraisal that is $15k more.
If we are talking about 6000 sf vs. 9000 sf, that's a huge difference.

I did the math awhile back. Between the property taxes and utility rates for both cities, it ended up being a wash.


Bryan lot ~ 13k sqft, CS lot about 10K
Frio Cielo
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duffelpud said:

Here's my tin-hat / follow-the-money explanation for what's going on.

Realtors are compensated by percentages on sales, so it is in their interest to list and close on high-dollar homes and properties. One strategy often utilized is to have sellers remodel baths and kitchens in order to make the home "more sellable". The r-o-i for the seller is usually minimal to nada, but the r-o-i for the agent is infinite since their investment is zero.

Now apply this logic to our city government and the real estate professional complex that is joined at its hip. It makes sense for a "citizens" advisory committee packed with real estate professionals to recommend that the city government spend millions and millions on amenities like senior centers, skate parks, new city buildings and parks because, like telling a home seller to redo their kitchen, it doesn't cost the agent a dime but the return is exponential.

It's also like Peter's explanation to Joanna in the movie "Office Space" about taking a penny at the convenience store sales counter. If Peter was on the College Station city council he'd say "That's exactly what raising the tax rate does, except instead of taking one penny, we're just taking a whole bunch of pennies from a whole lot of people".





At a commission of 2 to 3 percent, I doubt that most experienced Realtor will unnecessarily encourage a seller to make a $10,000 update in order to get a $40 to $60 higher commission.

Upgrades to homes to sell isn't primarily done to increase the ROI but to make your house more competitive and attractive to buyers who have sufficient lending strength but little resources to do updates after purchase. If an upgrade makes your house sell and close a few months earlier, you are saving the mortgage, taxes and insurance cost of those months.
duffelpud
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AG
Quote:

Upgrades to homes to sell isn't primarily done to increase the ROI but to make your house more competitive and attractive to buyers who have sufficient lending strength but little resources to do updates after purchase. If an upgrade makes your house sell and close a few months earlier, you are saving the mortgage, taxes and insurance cost of those months.

Your point is taken, but that was a metaphor. Scale the numbers up and you're talking about some real coin. Also, 2 to 3 percent of 10k is $200 to $300, not $60 to $80 - do that once a month and it's enough to make payments on a used Mercedes Benz CLK 550 with the AMG trim. Do you by chance work for the City of College Station?
MosesHallRAB83
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AG
I see your point, but think the motivation is more likely directed at making a sale. Sure if it sells for more, then the better. What would you want as an agent, a sale now or one a couple of months after repairs for an extra 2-3 hundred in commission?

Personally I would rather move the inventory as fast as possible as that more than likely would make up for any difference in return on an investment they didn't have to make.

It might make sense on an a high end property, but I suspect there is a point of diminishing returns.
atm86
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HankWalker said:

The College Station police station is being designed for 80,000 square feet at $28M, or $350/sq-ft. That construction cost is very competitive with other similarly-sized projects in the area. The intention is for the building to have enough space to last for several decades at the current rate of growth. Anyone who has lived here for any length of time has seen the police department outgrow their space several times, as the city has doubled in size and then doubled again. In terms of size of the police station, Fort Worth has multiple police substations, not one police station, so their total police station space is much higher than the main administration building.

Another discussion alluded to by Mayor Mooney is new city hall vs. renovating the police station as a city hall or at least a city hall annex.
Bolded for emphasis. Several decades from now we will be in our third or fourth iteration of a "new" police station.

Why do you think Fort Worth has substations?
happyinBCS
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Hmm now a 6% increase in water rates what is next
runawaytrain
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Ding ding... the city has lost all credibility. With all the hidden taxes in utility bills along with tax increases, I have reservations for any increases in any utility that isn't really an additional tax.

http://www.kbtx.com/content/news/College-Station-planning-water-rake-hike-next-summer-441452583.html

Oogway
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Your county taxes are planned to go up too, so get ready.
moneyinthebananastand
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Reading through the city budget revealed they plan another tax increase to pay for the new city hall next year.
techno-ag
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AG
moneyinthebananastand said:

Reading through the city budget revealed they plan another tax increase to pay for the new city hall next year.
They should change the name to College Taxation.
Frio Cielo
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To me, any increaee in tax fees, tax rate, fees, or any other public cost to property owners over the annual rate of inflation should have to be voted in by the voters.

FlyRod
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Should the growth (which most here seem to favor) that leads to such tax increases also be put to the voters? Just curious...
 
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