PS3D said:

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halibut sinclair said:

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Sorry, but chains have to come first, if you can't support chains, you can't support these mythical "great local restaurants" everyone speaks of.

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What? Most towns are chock full of local restaurants and other businesses long before the chains come in.

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College Station is a relatively new city, and in many ways functions as a typical suburb would on the edge of Houston that gets its start with chains and moves onto great local sustainable restaurants later on (and by "sustainable" I mean ones that won't get run out by chains). The original stock of "local" restaurants like Pelican's Wharf, Fort Shiloh, et. al. seemed to go away with the rise of the chains, but if you can't support chains then you won't be able to support hip local joints. You know what I'm saying...?

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very good friend owns a well known steak house in Houston. I asked him once about opening an eatery up in CS and he just laughed. He said it was well known in the bidness that CS is possibly the hardest city to work with in the entire state. EXTREMELY small business un friendly. A large chain is much better equipped to navigate thru the morass and idiocy that the overlords put a new business thru. The small guy just does not have the resources to deal with entities like CS city government.

So big lib-rill Houston has a more business friendly guvmint than small, rock-ribbed conservative College Station?

Well that's just odd...

It's incredible the number of people who have told me how ridiculously hard it is to work with CS government for ANY new business. The people who run this town should be ashamed at all of the stupid red tape and numerous design changes and architecture changes and all other changes needed to do business here. If they think CS is the gold standard for new beautification they just need to take a hard look at the signature area of CS, the run down sewer area called Northgate. If ANYTHING needs upgraded it's that mess and dump of dilapidated structures.

Northgate is getting better, and nicer. New buildings, new more adult-oriented bars and restaurants.

But if you mean the ACTUAL sewer area near West End Elixir Co., I believe that is being addressed as well. I assume they will have it fixed before the food truck court opens, so as not to put people off their feed.

PS3D said:

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halibut sinclair said:

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Sorry, but chains have to come first, if you can't support chains, you can't support these mythical "great local restaurants" everyone speaks of.

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What? Most towns are chock full of local restaurants and other businesses long before the chains come in.

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College Station is a relatively new city, and in many ways functions as a typical suburb would on the edge of Houston that gets its start with chains and moves onto great local sustainable restaurants later on (and by "sustainable" I mean ones that won't get run out by chains). The original stock of "local" restaurants like Pelican's Wharf, Fort Shiloh, et. al. seemed to go away with the rise of the chains, but if you can't support chains then you won't be able to support hip local joints. You know what I'm saying...?

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I really don't and I don't think you do either.

Somewhere between the "morass of redtape" and the anything goes anywhere Houston model there must be a reasonable compromise. Compromise only seems like a dirty word if one views the world with a win-lose perspective.

halibut sinclair said:

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PS3D said:

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halibut sinclair said:

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Sorry, but chains have to come first, if you can't support chains, you can't support these mythical "great local restaurants" everyone speaks of.

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What? Most towns are chock full of local restaurants and other businesses long before the chains come in.

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College Station is a relatively new city, and in many ways functions as a typical suburb would on the edge of Houston that gets its start with chains and moves onto great local sustainable restaurants later on (and by "sustainable" I mean ones that won't get run out by chains). The original stock of "local" restaurants like Pelican's Wharf, Fort Shiloh, et. al. seemed to go away with the rise of the chains, but if you can't support chains then you won't be able to support hip local joints. You know what I'm saying...?

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I really don't and I don't think you do either.

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Well, explain your position without passive-aggressively attacking me as you've done in the past.

I won't speak for halibut, but I'm unaware of any empirical market research showing that chains have to "make it first" before local home grown restaurants can. Can you provide a link to such studies? I'm not suggesting they don't exist, but I certainly haven't seen any.

mason12 said:

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I grew up in Shreveport/Bossier. I miss the good diner food from Stawn's. They have three restaurants. One by Centenary College, one on Youree Drive, and one on Airline Drive in Bossier.

http://strawnseatshop.com/Strawn's%20Eat%20Shop%20%20Menu.pdf

http://strawnseatshop.com/Strawn's%20Also%20Menu.pdf

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We ate at a cajun place a few years ago in Shreveport/Bossier called "The Blind Tiger" I don't know how we found it or if it would be considered "authentic" cajun food, but our selections were amazing.

PS3D said:

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halibut sinclair said:

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PS3D said:

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halibut sinclair said:

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Quote:

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Sorry, but chains have to come first, if you can't support chains, you can't support these mythical "great local restaurants" everyone speaks of.

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What? Most towns are chock full of local restaurants and other businesses long before the chains come in.

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College Station is a relatively new city, and in many ways functions as a typical suburb would on the edge of Houston that gets its start with chains and moves onto great local sustainable restaurants later on (and by "sustainable" I mean ones that won't get run out by chains). The original stock of "local" restaurants like Pelican's Wharf, Fort Shiloh, et. al. seemed to go away with the rise of the chains, but if you can't support chains then you won't be able to support hip local joints. You know what I'm saying...?

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I really don't and I don't think you do either.

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Well, explain your position without passive-aggressively attacking me as you've done in the past.

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Don't know about halibut, but it seems to me that you've shifted your position from "chains come first" to "locals can't always survive the arrival of chains in the same market niche". It might be true that chains actually come first in new suburbs attached to a larger city. You could even argue that this is what is happening within B/CS as a smaller city where chains tend to dominate the periphery - like the ongoing discussion of Tower Point.

Even then, it does not follow that a community's ability to support the local joints (hip or unhip) is connected to supporting chains.

I've been here long enough to remember Fort Shiloh and Pelican Wharf existing, but I never ate at either. Did they go because of competition from chains or for some other reason? Given how hard the restaurant business is, they might have gone away for unrelated reasons.

Nice post, bio. Made me wonder, actually, if I can think of any situation where a chain has put a local place out of business? And looking back at local places that have closed, I am hard pressed to think of such a situation.

It has been argued in other threads that chains are easier to keep open because they come with corporate support and training already, and brand recognition. That, for better or worse, is a given. But the association with the status of "local" restaurants is unclear at best.

You mentioned earlier, FlyRod, about the middle-aged w/kids demographic and sometimes that is where the chain restaurant may have an edge. Many local restaurants do have children's portions and deals--at least I have seen them advertised, but other businesses may find it just too expensive or be unaware of how to corner that market. We had one picky eater in the family, who despite our best efforts was just wired that way until finally growing out of it. (or gave in--the jury is still out). We found that when going to local places, if we gave them a heads up, they would work with us and it made the experience much more pleasant for all; plus it earned them repeat customers. It wasn't anything too crazy (mostly it was extreme sauce phobia--as in the child who doesn't like sauce touching ANYTHING) but it was a way to work around the children's menu that only has chicken fingers, hot dogs and hamburgers and branch out into trying other items.

This isn't meant as a criticism of what is available--we have discussed before how food is such a personal thing with people plus it is a business and a difficult one at that. Cheers!

biobioprof said:

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PS3D said:

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halibut sinclair said:

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PS3D said:

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halibut sinclair said:

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Sorry, but chains have to come first, if you can't support chains, you can't support these mythical "great local restaurants" everyone speaks of.

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What? Most towns are chock full of local restaurants and other businesses long before the chains come in.

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College Station is a relatively new city, and in many ways functions as a typical suburb would on the edge of Houston that gets its start with chains and moves onto great local sustainable restaurants later on (and by "sustainable" I mean ones that won't get run out by chains). The original stock of "local" restaurants like Pelican's Wharf, Fort Shiloh, et. al. seemed to go away with the rise of the chains, but if you can't support chains then you won't be able to support hip local joints. You know what I'm saying...?

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I really don't and I don't think you do either.

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Well, explain your position without passive-aggressively attacking me as you've done in the past.

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Don't know about halibut, but it seems to me that you've shifted your position from "chains come first" to "locals can't always survive the arrival of chains in the same market niche". It might be true that chains actually come first in new suburbs attached to a larger city. You could even argue that this is what is happening within B/CS as a smaller city where chains tend to dominate the periphery - like the ongoing discussion of Tower Point.

Even then, it does not follow that a community's ability to support the local joints (hip or unhip) is connected to supporting chains.

I've been here long enough to remember Fort Shiloh and Pelican Wharf existing, but I never ate at either. Did they go because of competition from chains or for some other reason? Given how hard the restaurant business is, they might have gone away for unrelated reasons.

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Well, I did expand my opinion that we can't forget that College Station DID have some local options years ago, but my point was that chains have their place in the "restaurant food chain". It seems to me that when people demand "local restaurant options", they don't mean mediocre Tex-Mex or another seafood place that serves tilapia. They want something that's trendy, something that food writers will write home about, something that excels in the local cuisine, and something you can be proud of taking people to when they visit town, because Koppe Bridge and Chicken Oil Co. just aren't what they used to be. But to support those types of restaurants, you need an environment where the big restaurant chains can do well, too. As for your second question, I know for a fact that one of the officially stated reasons for the closure of the Texan Restaurant was chains. I can't speak for Pelican's Wharf or Fort Shiloh, though.

The Texan closed because of chains? Wow... which chain was serving the same market?

I always thought Christopher's killed the Texan.

halibut sinclair said:

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The owner of The Texan, Mr. Tapley died. His wife tried to continue on and couldn't handle it. The family decided to close the place.

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There was an article in Insight Magazine, which specifically mentions the chains (well, besides Tapley's death, of course). Until I have the chance to "put up or shut up", could you cut the slander?

Told you I wasn't making stuff up.

I'm glad you spent 3 days trying to find this, because it totally invalidates your original argument that chains have to come first before local restaurants.

halibut sinclair said:

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I'm glad you spent 3 days trying to find this, because it totally invalidates your original argument that chains have to come first before local restaurants.

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If you read my posts, you would've seen that I clarified and expanded my original argument.

Either way, your claim of me being a liar have been disproved, though I fully expect you'll still find new ways to argue and slander my name in the future. Thanks for playing.

Your expanded and clarified opinion was still incorrect.

Here's a thought - what if Ms. Tapley's opinion that "increased competition, largely from chain restaurants" was not entirely correct? To use some examples from back in the day, I don't think that Casa Tomas, Olive Garden or Bennigan's was taking their clientele. Christopher's probably affected them, but it's also possible that lowering prices didn't change the fact that tastes were changing, their food quality wasn't what it was after Mr. Tapley's death, and the building wasn't kept up. Christopher's and The Republic seem to do ok with even more chains in town now.

My sense was The Texan could never quite figure out what it wanted to be, and those kind of restaurants usually struggle.

People I know spoke of Square One in this regard as well, though to be fair they were generally positive about it.

Halibut raises a good point. The closing of a long time business is often a deeply personal thing, and the owner may not be entirely forthcoming as to the reasons the particular business closed.

That is one thing I love about living here in Columbia now.

There is a huge variety of dining options compared to BCS.

Mexican isn't good, but that has helped a lot with our weight loss. There are just so many family owned joints of varying cuisines that you never get bored with the options out there.

BCStalk said:

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Tanya 93 said:

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That is one thing I love about living here in Columbia now.

There is a huge variety of dining options compared to BCS.

Mexican isn't good, but that has helped a lot with our weight loss. There are just so many family owned joints of varying cuisines that you never get bored with the options out there.

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This has nothing to offer this topic in any way. If you love where you live so much, I suggest joining one of their forums.

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Or it shows that a college town situated between two much larger cities can support many restaurants of varying types when the students want more options.

The students there don't want more options.

In the early 80's, people couldn't wait for the chains to get there. Now that they are entrenched, people can't get enough of what they had before.
As has been stated, the masses eat what they can afford, and failed attempts(like Doe's Eat Place where the owner had never been to the original and people couldn't grasp the concept not ever being to the on in Greenville), the high-end places have limited traffic.
Oh for the days of Grapevine, Pepe Taco, 3-C and scrambling for a place to get your parents to take you to eat.

Pretty sure people are pretty happy with what is here and what is coming, rather than what was. It's fun to wax nostalgic about places gone by, but restaurant choices are better and more numerous now than they've ever been. Now expectations are rising, which is a perfectly normal thing.

I agree M'Beaux's is awesome.

I miss Luby's!

I looked at the menu online, and talked to my daughter who has been there, and she said it is good. we both agreed that they seem like more of a seafood place with a couple cajun options available.still going to try it, just maybe not the cajun 1st menu i was thinking, but i'll drive that far for good seafood with a little cajun thrown in!

cottonpatchag said:

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In the early 80's, people couldn't wait for the chains to get there. Now that they are entrenched, people can't get enough of what they had before.
As has been stated, the masses eat what they can afford, and failed attempts(like Doe's Eat Place where the owner had never been to the original and people couldn't grasp the concept not ever being to the on in Greenville), the high-end places have limited traffic.
Oh for the days of Grapevine, Pepe Taco, 3-C and scrambling for a place to get your parents to take you to eat.

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WHOA! Pepe Taco is still on South College with the "fastest taco in town"!

I suggest the drive-thru.

Yes, but chip and dips for $2.00 is as gone as Chanello's s square pizza. No waxing or waning for the past, just the cycle is churning, and what you don't have is what you want.