Gunny456 said:

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I have read about some of those studies.........I understood that they injected the monkeys and rats with the actual infected tissue and that they fed the monkeys the same infected tissue......not just meat from the animal.
They have also been studying the effects of our stomach acids and the digestive system process to try and understand if it can in fact be contracted by eating "the infected tissue".
At a seminar I attended in MO the biologist also shared data on the injection of infected tissue into other Cervidaes (namely Fallow and Axis) and have not seen a transference of disease into those specie and are hoping that may show some clues on preventing it into other Cervidae.
You brought up some very valid points. I say if a person is very concerned about his meat to have the deer tested.
As the biologist in MO stated we have a lot to learn about it yet......just like covid.

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CDC (yeah, I know) summarized some recent research that has not been fully published yet showing that macaques were infected by eating both muscle meat and/or brain/spinal tissue (see below). They also highlighted a 2018 study that said the opposite. My own opinion is that until we know more, I am going to get my deer tested, and if they are positive, I am not going to eat them. Everybody else should make their own judgements about their personal risk tolerances.

From Transmission | Chronic Wasting Disease (CWD) | Prion Disease | CDC:

The CWD prion has been shown to experimentally infect squirrel monkeys, and also laboratory mice that carry some human genes. An additional study begun in 2009 by Canadian and German scientists, which has not yet been published in the scientific literature, is evaluating whether CWD can be transmitted to macaquesa type of monkey that is genetically closer to people than any other animal that has been infected with CWD previously. On July 10, 2017, the scientists presented a summary of the study's progress (access the recorded presentationExternalexternal icon), in which they showed that CWD was transmitted to monkeys that were fed infected meat (muscle tissue) or brain tissue from CWD-infected deer and elk. Some of the meat came from asymptomatic deer that had CWD (i.e., deer that appeared healthy and had not begun to show signs of the illness yet). Meat from these asymptomatic deer was also able to infect the monkeys with CWD. CWD was also able to spread to macaques that had the infectious material placed directly into their brains.

This study showed different results than a previous study published in the Journal of Virologyexternal icon in 2018, which had not shown successful transmission of CWD to macaques. The reasons for the different experimental results are unknown. To date, there is no strong evidence for the occurrence of CWD in people, and it is not known if people can get infected with CWD prions. Nevertheless, these experimental studies raise the concern that CWD may pose a risk to people and suggest that it is important to prevent human exposures to CWD.

Thanks for sharing.

jayelbee said:

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I'd be willing to bet that the odds of human transmission are probably lower than some of the rare side effects that many of us willing accept from pharmaceuticals and a lot of daily activities that could kill us.

That said, I wouldn't knowingly eat tainted meat. If I were 55 or older, I'd probably increase my risk tolerance significantly, but I wouldn't serve it to my kids or anything.

The bigger concern to me is what it does to the population of it gets a foothold and you see high prevalence rates. That's something we should all be very concerned about.

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I am over 50, but I already have MS and "innumerable" lesions in my brain according to my most recent MRI. So I don't need anything else getting in there and gumming up what I have left. I agree with you that the risk to the native population is of more immediate concern than the human transmission angle, and that is something we probably won't know the full extent of until at least another 5-10 years down the road.

jayelbee said:

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TPWD commission is meeting next week to discuss implementation of new rules for deer breeders WRT CWD. Public comment period is open through 11/3.

https://tpwd.texas.gov/business/feedback/public_comment/proposals/202111_cwd_manage.phtml?eType=EmailBlastContent&eId=87fe898d-9ddf-4c47-bafe-4a0a765c63be

I know we have people here that fall in both sides of the issue, so this is your opportunity to have your voice heard. If you are concerned about CWD, I hope you take the time to weigh in and ask your friends to do the same.

The text is a lot to read through, but here's an short writeup from NDA (Formerly QDMA). https://www.deerassociation.com/action-alert-support-texas-cwd-rule-proposals/

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Thanks for the head's up. While I appreciate that TPWD is trying to toughen up their testing requirements, in my opinion, the testing program still won't stop CWD infected deer from being transported. It just gives us a better chance to know about it sooner than we would have otherwise. That is not good enough for me. Until we have a reliable ante-mortem test that can detect CWD with >95% accuracy that can be used on any deer a breeder wants to transport, we should stop allowing the transport of any deer. Nothing a breeder will accomplish transporting deer around the state for profit should be allowed to outweigh TPWD's responsibility to stop the spread of CWD to the wild herd. My comment that I submitted is included below in case anybody cares.

"Thank you for the opportunity to comment on the newly proposed rules. While these new rules are a positive step up from the previous program, my belief is that they still amount to closing the barn door after the animals have already escaped. By that, I mean that they allow a movement qualified facility to send deer around the state that may be infected or exposed to CWD, and we will not know it until after the deer have been transported and released at a new property. Everything after that is just reactionary to a problem that could have been solved by not allowing the sale and transport of the deer in the first place.

I believe that the only appropriate response for TPWD to the recent evidence that CWD exposed animals have been released to dozens of new counties in the state should be a total halt to the transportation of white tailed deer in the state until such time as a reliable ante-mortem test is available that can detect CWD in a specific animal before it is transported. At that point, we can consider allowing a resumption of the transportation of deer around the state, but even then, those deer should be positively marked with brands or ear tags that will stay with them for their entire life, so that they can be trapped and re-tested if necessary following a positive test at the facility they came from.

I recognize that TPWD feels like they have to show that this new set of rules is as close to revenue neutral as possible to get it approved, but that ignores TPWD's primary responsibility in this matter, which is the protection and conservation of the white tailed deer herd in Texas as a resource owned by the state. I know that the halt to transport of deer would greatly harm deer breeding businesses. However, TPWD's duty is to responsibly manage that resource for the citizens of Texas, not to ensure that deer breeders don't lose money while they transport CWD-exposed deer sold to the highest bidder around the state and potentially spread CWD to the wild population. Allowing the transport of deer from one facility to another, without a reliable ante-mortem means of knowing that the deer doesn't have CWD is madness, and these rules will allow that practice to continue. None of this would even be an issue and those breeders would not exist, had TPWD not made the initial mistake of allowing native white tailed deer that belong to the state to be treated as livestock by deer breeders.

Therefore, while I respect that these rules represent an advance from the older program, I feel that they accept a level of risk to the wild population of white tailed deer in the state that is unacceptable to me, and should be unacceptable to TPWD as the agency responsible for management of the resource on behalf of the citizens of Texas."

not what darwin had in mind.

Anyone know any details on the Angelina County exposure? Couldn't find anything on a google search. Our property is just over the border. Really don't want to have to high fence everything to try to keep CWD out.

I'm also curious about the likelihood that exposed means infected.

DTP02 said:

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Anyone know any details on the Angelina County exposure? Couldn't find anything on a google search. Our property is just over the border. Really don't want to have to high fence everything to try to keep CWD out.

I'm also curious about the likelihood that exposed means infected.

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TPWD has been pretty tight lipped about specific properties where releases occurred. I know they spent a lot of time tracing out where animals that were potentially exposed had been released, and I believe they may have done some level of testing at some of the release sites where they were able to secure landowner cooperation. There were at least a couple of sites (breeder locations I believe) where they did a complete depopulation of the property. There is very little hard science out there about how easily deer are infected by exposure to other infected deer. Part of the problem is that it can take years for an exposed deer to develop CWD. Unless you have a ton of money laying around and just always wanted a high fence, I wouldn't be eager to run out and do anything other than getting your animals tested after you harvest them based solely on being in a county where an exposed deer may have been released. What I would do is keep an eye out for deer acting abnormally and looking to be in poor condition. If you see one that looks sick, harvest it immediately if you can and get it tested. If it is out of season or you are out of tags, contact the game warden to report it and see if they will let you harvest it for testing.

TPW is going to look at creating two more CWD containment zones and a surveillance zone at their late August meeting. The counties impacted:

Thanks for sharing! We're just outside this zone but I guarantee that will change next year…

I'm just North of 470 so looks like if they expand the zone I'll be included.

Hate it.

I tripple-dog-dare any pro-breeder mindset to opine their defense on the OB.

mhnatt said:

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I tripple-dog-dare any pro-breeder mindset to opine their defense on the OB.

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Fug every last one of them!

Spineless TPWD has blood on their hands with this one. They pop you for having frozen filets on your boat, yet they do not want to shut down the offending breeders that are spreading this crap over thousands of miles across the state.

This thing is slowly perculating and will become so widespread that it will affect the entire populations across all of Texas.

Safe to eat the meat. Some say yes. Some say no. I'm not risking it.

Just wait until it jumps species!


*that was NOT me with the filets on Lone Star Law

In case you are wondering where we are headed, here is a summary of testimony by a Texas "deer guru" before the State of Wisconsin's Natural Resources Board that includes some discussion of stats about CWD in their wild herds.

https://www.patrickdurkinoutdoors.com/post/deer-czar-fails-to-assess-impacts-of-his-2012-report

They have had nearly 10,000 CWD positive detections since 2002, with nearly 7500 of those within the last 10 years. They are seeing CWD positive rates of over 30% in some counties, and the rate in 2.5+ year old bucks exceeds 50% in some counties. These are wild deer population #s, not just breeder stats. We currently still only have a few detections in wild whitetails outside of the panhandle, but those are all near breeder sites or breeder release sites. But we are still seeing Texas allow breeders (who have been the source of nearly all the detections and spread of CWD in Texas whitetails) to ship deer around the state. My stomach turned when I saw those numbers out of Wisconsin and thought about what it would look like to see that in Central and South Texas.

I can't believe TPWD is going to stick to their status quo and just keep monitoring the spread caused by breeders and doing nothing to try to stop it from happening. Absolute dereliction of duty by the agency tasked with managing the wildlife of this state...

In case you are wondering where we are headed, here is a summary of testimony by a Texas "deer guru" before the State of Wisconsin's Natural Resources Board that includes some discussion of stats about CWD in their wild herds.

I went to some of Kroll's talks he gave in East Texas in the 90s, mostly on small acreage management and the newly released game cams. They were very informative. However, listening to him the past few years, it appears to me he has become beholden to some influential groups which have motives that aren't in the average Texas deer hunter's best interest.

Yeah, my "deer guru" moniker for him was not meant to be complimentary.

I kinda figured that.

duddleysdraw88 said:

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mhnatt said:

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I tripple-dog-dare any pro-breeder mindset to opine their defense on the OB.

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Fug every last one of them!

Spineless TPWD has blood on their hands with this one. They pop you for having frozen filets on your boat, yet they do not want to shut down the offending breeders that are spreading this crap over thousands of miles across the state.

This thing is slowly perculating and will become so widespread that it will affect the entire populations across all of Texas.

Safe to eat the meat. Some say yes. Some say no. I'm not risking it.

Just wait until it jumps species!


*that was NOT me with the filets on Lone Star Law

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Hyperbole on either side is neither necessary nor productive.

Just follow the money/ donations. TPWD sure does. This deer breeding/ selling is a huge business and they spend/ donate much more than the groups that oppose the deer breeding/ selling. Or at least they have so far.

On a positive note, the whitetail deer research program at the Kleberg Tx. A&M- Kingsville department just got a major new funding donation dedicated to deer research. Let's hope this ranch owner/ trophy hunter has a plan and agenda to help the current problem. Time will tell.

TPW Commission voted yesterday to create the new Surveillance Zone 8 that covers parts of Duval, Live Oak, and McMullen counties in South Texas. There were 3 positive test results in a breeder's pen. The breeder broke every rule in the book, but because of his malfeasance surrounding landowners covering almost 200,000 acres now have mandatory testing on all harvests and carcass restrictions to deal with. The landowners got together and committed to voluntary testing of a certain percentage of their harvests in lieu of the SZ and presented that to the Commission, but TPWC wasn't interested. Again, all of this with zero outside deer testing positive - only deer in the breeder's pen.

News Release: Sept. 2, 2022: Chronic Wasting Disease Discovered at a Deer Breeding Facility in Gillespie County - TPWD (texas.gov)

Oh look, another positive in a deer at a breeder site. This is my shocked face...

This time in a 1 year old buck that died at the property. Given what we know about the typically long incubation and slow development of symptoms, it seems likely to me that the buck was probably infected during gestation by an infected doe. Which then begs the question of whether the doe was infected by another deer on the property and if it was mated naturally by another buck on the property or if it was artificially inseminated with semen from an infected buck. Either way, it seems like there are likely to be more positives than they are aware of at that facility.