I'm by nature a tinkerer. I listened to a meateater podcast episode called Archers Paradox which has Ed Ashby on it and really went into details on his arrow philosophies. I know his stuffs been posted on here before.

But what say you guys? Is it worth changing things up? I got a pass through on elk w my current setup but I suppose with a more compromised shot I'd want more assurance.

Right now pulling 70lbs my arrow is 430gr and 12.5% FOC with a 100gr broadhead, 300 spine with arrow length 28" at 8.7gpi

I could simply put a 125gr broadhead up front with what I've got now and be good with a touch More weight and increased FOC. I was also considering just going all out and changing to. 250 spine and go 150gr up front and just get a much heavier arrow all around for maximum momentum.

What's the downside of the heavier arrow? Just more spread on my pins and more drop the further I get out? Perhaps slower speed so more time for animals to jump the string?

Lastly with sights. All of our shots were 50+ yards on this trip so I'm thinking of making my 5pin go from 30-70 versus my current setup of 20-60. Any thoughts on that ?

I've got some arrow set ups from the last few years I can send you to play around with if you want. I can't use them anymore.

What are the specs for those setups?

I'm thinking if I stick w black eagle rampage and go 250 spine @ 10.7 GPI would be 299gr
Half out 50 gr
Vanes 18gr
Lighted nock 40 gr
150 gr broadhead

I'm looking at 558gr - I like that # honestly

I believe that 40 gr nock is going to throw your foc off. May have to add heavy insert

Could only find 5 left overs from last year...I have another similar set up floating around somewhere.

Easton hexx 260 - 9.3 gpi cut to 27.75
75g brass insert
H nock - 9g
4" wrap - 5g
3x max hunter - 24g

and I shot a 150g broadhead for a total of ~522g.

lazuras_dc said:

---

I'm looking at 558gr - I like that # honestly

---

That turns me on and will definitely get it done.

Sorry just looked the nocturnal is only 25gr

Doesn't black eagle make a heavier half out that's brass? If so that could raise your FOC a little more

https://www.blackeaglearrows.com/product-p/17-brass-in-weight.htm

Looks like could go 75gr brass weighted insert.

Wonder if a difference of you go 125gr broadhead and 75gr insert Vs. 150gr broadhead vs. 50 gr insert ?

I don't think any difference but 125 gives you more broadhead selection.

Heavy FOC and single bevel broad heads.

I'm shooting 150 gr Maasi broadhead.

That's awesome. I'm looking at Ironwill broadheads, look to be pretty awesome and fly well.

lazuras_dc said:

---

https://www.blackeaglearrows.com/product-p/17-brass-in-weight.htm

Looks like could go 75gr brass weighted insert.

Wonder if a difference of you go 125gr broadhead and 75gr insert Vs. 150gr broadhead vs. 50 gr insert ?

---

Laz, be careful with the 75 grain brass HIIT insert. You MUST use footers with those. I've had 3 or 4 arrows (Easton AXIS which are the toughest arrows I've ever used and Rampages) that have split the shafts on impact with the HIIT system. Both with fixed and mechanicals. Hard impacts and normal rib pass throughs into dirt. Iron Will makes some and I think Ethics Archery does as well.

If you go HIIT, use the rubberized adhesive from Black Eagle. I've heard that helps to keep the insert from breaking free upon impact and allowing the BH to set back into the shaft.

The difference in the 125/75 and 150/50 will be negligible, I'd go with 125/75 so that I could have the selection of 125 grain broadheads over 150s.

I shoot two bows right now. One shoots Rampage 300s @ 467 gr finished with a 100 gr. head and the other shoots Element Fire & Ice 300s at 511 grs with a 125 grain head. Both use the 51 grain Half Out from Black Eagle (I think Firenock OEMs those) and 30 grain brass screw in weights.

Next year I'm going to one shaft (Rampage 300s) so that I can just streamline everything and only have to change insert weight and BH.

After much hemming and hawing, To keep it simple I decided to keep my existing arrows and just got Iron Will S-series 125gr BH, total arrow weight wont be much higher (maybe like 455gr) but my FOC will be much greater.

I actually considered having a second bow to shoot a super heavy arrow for elk and keeping a fast one for WT but I'm not far from lolpoor so I ain't committing to that yet.

Whats with the breakage on the brass HIIT and why do you have to do something special? How is it diff than the stainless steel half out? Is it just bc of the weight?

EDIT: looks like the brass inserts actually screw into the halfout... so then it just creates another point of possible connection/breakage?

lazuras_dc said:

---

Whats with the breakage on the brass HIIT and why do you have to do something special? How is it diff than the stainless steel half out? Is it just bc of the weight?

---

No, it's because the carbon is exposed to the shoulder of the BH on the HIIT system. There can be enough give in the insert at impact to break the epoxy and push it back into the shaft, allowing the BH to mushroom the shaft.

I actually prefer the HIIT system because it is more concentric and spins better than the half-outs in my experience, but they aren't as durable. The footer works well to fix that, though.

You can also have enough flex in the shaft at the base of the HIIT to fracture the shaft there.

Here are some examples of how the shaft can break. I hit this buck's offside leg bone. The impact broke the epoxy and sent the insert back into the shaft. That caused it to mushroom the end of the shaft and the instability allowed it to break at the flex point at the rear of the insert.

I found the Broadhead and insert on the trail.

I use a collar with hidden insert on an Easton Axis. I like to shoot the heaviest arrow I can get to fly 280 fps.

I've got a nilgai hunt in Nov so I'm setting up some new heavier arrows.

Black eagle carnivore 250s
28.25" c to c
70 lb
9.7 gpi
Lighted knocks- 25 grains
3.5" wraps- 4 grains
2" blazers although i have experimented w and may go w 2.5" or 3" feathers which shaves 10-12 grains off the back end.
125 grain brass inserts
100 grain Iron Wills
That should put me in the 545-550 grain range.
I would go heavier broadhead and lighter insert but I've already got a couple of sets of the IW 100s.

Using a single pin CBE engage hybrid sight.

Do you have footers for the inserts?
Whats your FOC w a rig like that

If penetration is your focus, have you tried a solid core arrow like Easton injexion? I've heard they carry a lot of momentum but it requires changing the arrow rest width.

I'd love to hear opinions on people who've used them

arrow said:

---

I use a collar with hidden insert on an Easton Axis. I like to shoot the heaviest arrow I can get to fly 280 fps.

---

Same here. I'm shooting Easton Axis 5mms with 25gr Iron Will collars and 100gr BHs. Total arrow weight around 478gr at about 278 fps.

lazuras_dc said:

---

Do you have footers for the inserts?
Whats your FOC w a rig like that

---

if you are asking to me, not yet but I'm not opposed to it. I've never used them. Any recommendations? I'm certainly open to changing up how I do the front end except for the broadheads.

at 550 grains it is 14 FOC according to the Gold Tip FOC calculator. Not as high as I'd like at that weight honestly. If I ditch the wrap and switch to feathers it is 15.6 FOC. The lighted nocks really throw off the FOC by a couple of percentage points but I'm pretty dead set on using them based on past experience. not sure if that will make any real world difference or not. The only thing I'm really set on is doing the IW Broadheads and lighted nocks. Everything else can be adjusted. I have all of my own arrow building stuff so I can experiment a bit with different configurations.

550gr 15% FOC would be golden in my eyes.
I think I was about 13% at 430 grain. I'll what it looks like after the new broadhead. I'd assume 455gr and 15+ % foc

Hey phorizt, I just bought the ravin r10 crossbow https://ravincrossbows.com/product/r10-crossbow/ with that being said I got some Megameat 100 grain broadheads https://www.g5outdoors.com/g5-megameat-broadhead/ do you think they will do the trick for our nilgai hunt? If not what do you recommend in the 100 grain range?

ontherocks said:

---

Hey phorizt, I just bought the ravin r10 crossbow https://ravincrossbows.com/product/r10-crossbow/ with that being said I got some Megameat 100 grain broadheads https://www.g5outdoors.com/g5-megameat-broadhead/ do you think they will do the trick for our nilgai hunt? If not what do you recommend in the 100 grain range?

---

honestly I would not recommend any mechanical broadhead for a nilgai. For whitetails it probably wouldn't matter and you would be fine. I would find a good cut on contact fixed blade and also I'd probably go 150 grains or so. The heavier size also usually means a more solid construction. That crossbow is 400 fps and I'd much rather have more weight and a more robust head than a little more speed and cutting diameter in that setup.

For a more affordable option I like the Magnus Black Hornets or Stingers with bleeders. The steel is ok on those but not going to be nearly as tough as some higher end heads that use higher grade tool/blade steels. Not sure how the Magnus heads would hold up to a heavy bone hit. With a Nilgai their vitals are closer up towards the front of the chest so you're going to be shooting up close to that shoulder more than likely.

And another affordable option: https://steelforce.com/shop/phathead/phathead-ss-145/

I used 100 grain QAD Exodus before which a lot of people like but I had really bad luck with them.

I like/use Iron Will and they have a crossbow head but they are a little pricey: https://www.ironwilloutfitters.com/gear/x-series-crossbow-broadheads-three-pack

Some other good options here: https://grizzlystik.com/broadheads

If it were me and money wasn't a concern I'd get the Iron Will wide 150s for the crossbow.

My thought is that the more boring and simple the head looks the better off you probably are. If it looks like it took a team of 50 mechanical engineers to design it then you probably don't want it. Not that those can't and won't work bc hundreds of thousands or millions of animals per year get killed with big crazy mechanicals and I've killed deer with them. It just gives you less room for error on something like a nilgai imo.

Thanks for the recommendations. I'll look into some of the fixed blades you mentioned.

What was your bad luck with the QAD exodus? Leaving for an elk hunt this afternoon and have some in the quiver along with slick tricks. Might stick with the slick tricks

ALL IN 2013 said:

---

What was your bad luck with the QAD exodus? Leaving for an elk hunt this afternoon and have some in the quiver along with slick tricks. Might stick with the slick tricks

---

For what it's worth, I've had no bad luck with QADs, but my sample size may be much smaller than his. I've shot 4-5 game animals up to 250# with them (and missed a few and hit some boulders of much greater size with no breakage or bending). They are some of the toughest heads I've used. Would not hesitate to use either Slick Trick or QAD.

ALL IN 2013 said:

---

What was your bad luck with the QAD exodus? Leaving for an elk hunt this afternoon and have some in the quiver along with slick tricks. Might stick with the slick tricks

---

Put your shot where you need it to go and the slick tricks will be money. Full pass through on my elk- 100gr magnums.

My shot wasn't exactly where I wanted, it was about 4-6" to the right where I shot at 54yd. bull was facing left, so I still double lunged him. But if he was facing the other way, it may have been near shoulder/bone and who knows what would happen at that point, so I started this thread thinking I want some heavier arrow/FOC for insurance on that sort of stuff.

Yeah i called it bad luck bc it was probably just a mix of bad luck and my lack of skill but was enough to get me to switch. I liked the design and there are lots of great reviews on them so I probably wouldnt worry about it. They have great reviews for elk which is why I used them for nilgai when i did.

My experience was that i used them one 1 nilgai hunt, shot 1 hog and 2 nilgai w them. Did not recover any of the 3 animals, only had one blood trail which wasnt good that I followed for 3/4 mile before it vanished. 2 shots were under 15 yards and 1 broadside at 30 on a nilgai cow. The shot on the hog was high front shoulder angling down and shot placement was not good and penetration was terrible. That was my fault. The nilgai felt like perfect shots. Definitely the most gut wrenching hunt I've ever done. To wound 1 animal is bad but 3 in one trip really made me feel terrible and lose confidence in my equipment setup and myself.

Those were all w a 360 fps crossbow a few years ago before i moved to using a compound. I had a compound at the time too just felt more confident using the crossbow for the nilgai.

Open the elk's chest cavity with the QAD Exodus and it will die. It's my favorite 3-blade fixed. I switched to Slick Trick Viper Trick for elk. I like it better simply because it doesn't destroy my broadhead target when I pull arrows.

I was shooting a 562 grain arrow but had nock pinch with lighted nocks so went to Manu. Nock and shooting 550 grain