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SIAP - Browning/Winchester brings a NEW cartridge for the debates!

3,702 Views | 40 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by JSKolache
AgEng06
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The 6.8 Western... https://www.gohunt.com/read/skills/browning-launches-new-6.8-western-for-2021#gs.r0jxkr

Quote:

"More energy than a 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC and 7mm Rem Mag plus increased penetration versus existing .277 and 6.5 bullet offerings."
AgLA06
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I sent my dad that article Saturday. He's been looking to build something new for his all around hunting rifle similar to a .280. Something with more umph than his .257 that he can use on just about any big game in Texas, but with a shorter barrel and less recoil than his 300 win mag.

Seemed like this could be it if it becomes mainstream.
HSEAG13
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Won a Christensen 6.5 prc, now I'm wishing we would've seen if the the gun store would've allowed us to swap it for the same model but a "normal" cartridge that we already have. But then again, how else are they going to convince consumers they need something to else.
O.G.
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They can't get 30-06 and .223 ammo out right now. Maybe they should stay focused for a bit.
AgDad121619
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Lots of articles have popped up in last week around this. Ammo is available but couldn't find the rifles anywhere.
Get Off My Lawn
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Good grief. ANOTHER intermediate round?!
agsalaska
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Get Off My Lawn said:

Good grief. ANOTHER intermediate round?!
Man it is endless. How many ways to kill a deer?

When was the last round developed between .223 and .300 Win Mag that actually stuck and became mainstream?

I know someone is going to say 6.5 Creedmore(2012). And that may turn out to be true. But before that it was the 7mm-08 in 1980.
'
So two in my lifetime. Out of probably 30.

Dont get me wrong, it's cool and all. Go for it. I own or have owned several.
agsalaska
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AgEng06 said:

The 6.8 Western... https://www.gohunt.com/read/skills/browning-launches-new-6.8-western-for-2021#gs.r0jxkr

Quote:

"More energy than a 6.5 Creedmoor, 6.5 PRC and 7mm Rem Mag plus increased penetration versus existing .277 and 6.5 bullet offerings."

Those are some amazing specs. But the problem all of these run into his how much better is it than a .270 or 30-06 for 99% of the applications. Answer obviously is that it is not.

So how about the other 1%? Can they make that profitable? Hard as hell to convince a guy with a good .308 that he has hunted with for years because this is a better option past 600 yards.
Dirty-8-thirty Ag
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Isn't this pretty much a .270 WSM?!
Trigger06
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Dirty-8-thirty Ag said:

Isn't this pretty much a .270 WSM?!


Yes, but it is throated for the longer, higher ballistic coefficient bullets. At least that's my understanding.
schmellba99
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Dirty-8-thirty Ag said:

Isn't this pretty much a .270 WSM?!
Shortened .270WSM case, designed for heavy for caliber high BC projectiles right off the bat.

Honestly, it looks like a good round. Will it stick? Who knows? But why all the buttsoreness with a new round development?
powerbelly
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AgLA06 said:

I sent my dad that article Saturday. He's been looking to build something new for his all around hunting rifle similar to a .280. Something with more umph than his .257 that he can use on just about any big game in Texas, but with a shorter barrel and less recoil than his 300 win mag.

Seemed like this could be it if it becomes mainstream.


A 257 can handle any big game in texas
mts6175
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Dirty-8-thirty Ag said:

Isn't this pretty much a .270 WSM?!
Heavier, higher B.C. bullet with more energy at longer distance. I'm an avid 270 WSM guy, it's my go to, but I can see this replacing it. It's a niche cartridge, but it's interesting when you start looking at it. 12% more energy at 500 yards than a 270 WSM is what they are touting right now. That's significant.
normaleagle05
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schmellba99 said:

Dirty-8-thirty Ag said:

Isn't this pretty much a .270 WSM?!
Shortened .270WSM case, designed for heavy for caliber high BC projectiles right off the bat.

Honestly, it looks like a good round. Will it stick? Who knows? But why all the buttsoreness with a new round development?

Venting butthurt in other than real life settings is a feature of the internet, not a bug.
AgLA06
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powerbelly said:

AgLA06 said:

I sent my dad that article Saturday. He's been looking to build something new for his all around hunting rifle similar to a .280. Something with more umph than his .257 that he can use on just about any big game in Texas, but with a shorter barrel and less recoil than his 300 win mag.

Seemed like this could be it if it becomes mainstream.


A 257 can handle any big game in texas
That's your opinion. And definitely true if only hunting hill country or east Texas white tail. 110 gr isn't what he wants to shoot for larger white tail, exotics, and big game. He's looking for something more in the 150 - 165gr range. And a .257 doesn't fit that bill. He's looking for a combination of ballistics, bullet size, barrel length, and kick. He's narrowed it down to something between a 6.5 to .280.

His all around rifle right now is a .300 win mag shooting 180gr bullets. If he was going to step down to 100gr - 110gr bullets he'd just shoot his .243 that he loves. That's not what he wants.

And I agree with what he's trying to do as he physically fine in his 60s, but looking to drop the long length and kick of his win mag. Especially since he probably won't chase elk anymore, but it's always a possibility. And he wouldn't feel comfortable using a .257 on larger game (fallow, axis, nilgai, elk. etc.) at shots over 200 yards. It's also why he been hesitant to go 6.5 Creedmoor even though it should work as well. Since confidence is a big force in good shooting, I'm okay with him being picky.
agsalaska
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Sounds to me like he would be a great candidate for a .270 Winchester.




(Im half way joking by the way. I totally understand the draw of new technology)
mts6175
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I recommend him taking a serious look at the 270 WSM or even the 280 Ackley. I have been using the 270 WSM for 20+ years to hunt anything in Texas. Most of the deer I have shot have been larger West Texas deer. I have tried the 6.5 Creedmoor the past 2 seasons and personal opinion is I prefer my 270 WSM for hunting.
AgLA06
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agsalaska said:

Sounds to me like he would be a great candidate for a .270 Winchester.




(Im half way joking by the way. I totally understand the draw of new technology)
I know. I have one he can use. We've gone around and around on this for a year now. I'm actually surprised he's shown restraint. In the past he would have bought 2 or three rifles in different calibers by now. Maybe Covid and business being down actually has some benefit.

I guess he figures half the fun is buying something new and if he's going to do that he's looking for a unicorn in BC, barrel length under 24", 150gr or more bullet size, less kick than a 270.
AgLA06
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mts6175 said:



I recommend him taking a serious look at the 270 WSM or even the 280 Ackley. I have been using the 270 WSM for 20+ years to hunt anything in Texas. Most of the deer I have shot have been larger West Texas deer. I have tried the 6.5 Creedmoor the past 2 seasons and personal opinion is I prefer my 270 WSM for hunting.
That's basically what he has at the top of the list right now. He just hasn't been ready to pull the trigger so far for whatever reason. 6.8 Wester give him a third good option (if it becomes commercially viable).
agsalaska
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AgLA06 said:

agsalaska said:

Sounds to me like he would be a great candidate for a .270 Winchester.




(Im half way joking by the way. I totally understand the draw of new technology)
I know. I have one he can use. We've gone around and around on this for a year now. I'm actually surprised he's shown restraint. In the past he would have bought 2 or three rifles in different calibers by now. Maybe Covid and business being down actually has some benefit.

I guess he figures half the fun is buying something new and if he's going to do that he's looking for a unicorn in BC, barrel length under 24", 150gr or more bullet size, less kick than a 270.
That is the driving force behind all of this. That and capitalism.

I get that same desire as well from time to time. My recent obsession is large bore revolvers. For no reason whatsoever other than something new.
mts6175
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AgLA06 said:

mts6175 said:



I recommend him taking a serious look at the 270 WSM or even the 280 Ackley. I have been using the 270 WSM for 20+ years to hunt anything in Texas. Most of the deer I have shot have been larger West Texas deer. I have tried the 6.5 Creedmoor the past 2 seasons and personal opinion is I prefer my 270 WSM for hunting.
That's basically what he has at the top of the list right now. He just hasn't been ready to pull the trigger so far for whatever reason. 6.8 Wester give him a third good option (if it becomes commercially viable).
Couple vids worth watching on the 6.8. Not sure if it's enough to make me replace my 270 WSM, but if I was comparing the two, the 6.8 is intriguing. It has some serious energy transfer in ballistics gel in the 2nd video.



BrazosDog02
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This validates my decision to build a .308 and not a 6.5CM. Cool rounds but totally unnecessary.

I'm really glad nut and bolt manufacturers don't think like this. Could you imagine?

"Ok, guys....the 10mm nut was really great. But it doesn't have the holding power of this new nut. We'd Like to introduce the 10.76mm nut and bolt. Sockets won't disappear as readily as the 10mm AND it has more surface area for better holding power."


My buddy has a MINT Remington 700 chambered in .222 Remington Magnum. Ask him how he feels about these nick nack rounds...

cledus6150
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A 257wby loaded with a 115gr TSX going 3400fps drops Axis in their tracks!!!
schmellba99
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BrazosDog02 said:

This validates my decision to build a .308 and not a 6.5CM. Cool rounds but totally unnecessary.

I'm really glad nut and bolt manufacturers don't think like this. Could you imagine?

"Ok, guys....the 10mm nut was really great. But it doesn't have the holding power of this new nut. We'd Like to introduce the 10.76mm nut and bolt. Sockets won't disappear as readily as the 10mm AND it has more surface area for better holding power."


My buddy has a MINT Remington 700 chambered in .222 Remington Magnum. Ask him how he feels about these nick nack rounds...


Except the 6.8/.277 bore size has been around forever and a day.

Unecessary is pretty subjective - one could argue that a .22, a .30-06 and a 12 gauge are all that is "necessary". But what is the fun in that garbage?
BrazosDog02
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Being able to buy ammo at Joe Bobs Bait stand in Podunk, USA...that's what's fun about it.
Mans im just poking the bear. It's fine. I think it's a bit nutty but again, personal opinion.
texag_89
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Wonder if they were trying to copy a little - if nothing but the name alone - the old wildcat 7mmSTW?

https://www.rifleshootermag.com/editorial/ammunition_7mmstw_071207/83576

So many old calibers out there that have been forgotten or not found any longer.


gwellis
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AgLA06 said:

I sent my dad that article Saturday. He's been looking to build something new for his all around hunting rifle similar to a .280. Something with more umph than his .257 that he can use on just about any big game in Texas, but with a shorter barrel and less recoil than his 300 win mag.

Seemed like this could be it if it becomes mainstream.
I really like the .264 Win Mag.
Gil '91
Get Off My Lawn
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schmellba99 said:

Dirty-8-thirty Ag said:

Isn't this pretty much a .270 WSM?!
But why all the buttsoreness with a new round development?
Primarily: interchangeability and availability.

I'd have most of my bases covered with firearms chambered to .308, 5.56, .45ACP, .22LR, & 12ga. I could restrict myself to those and fill a 30 gun safe without duplicating each weapon's capabilities. And I could find multiple variations of each of those rounds which expand each of those weapons' functional limits.

I don't need a boutique round taking up shelf space, creating the possibility of chambering the wrong cartridge, increasing incompatibility, or making things more complicated for those who will inherent my guns. Would I turn down another gun if it were free? Of course not. But if it doesn't equate to a game-changing performance upgrade, then I'm just not incorporating unnecessary complexity into my arsenal.
mts6175
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Get Off My Lawn said:

schmellba99 said:

Dirty-8-thirty Ag said:

Isn't this pretty much a .270 WSM?!
But why all the buttsoreness with a new round development?
Primarily: interchangeability and availability.

I'd have most of my bases covered with firearms chambered to .308, 5.56, .45ACP, .22LR, & 12ga. I could restrict myself to those and fill a 30 gun safe without duplicating each weapon's capabilities. And I could find multiple variations of each of those rounds which expand each of those weapons' functional limits.

I don't need a boutique round taking up shelf space, creating the possibility of chambering the wrong cartridge, increasing incompatibility, or making things more complicated for those who will inherent my guns. Would I turn down another gun if it were free? Of course not. But if it doesn't equate to a game-changing performance upgrade, then I'm just not incorporating unnecessary complexity into my arsenal.
Sooooo...don't buy one?
gwellis
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So they compare a 7MM Rem Mag in 165 grn vs, a 175 grn 6.8 Western so they can claim more energy? Too damn funny.

Reality is, its a cool cartridge, but does NOT have more energy than a 7MM Rem Mag with same bullet weights and not better BCs either.
Gil '91
Get Off My Lawn
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mts6175 said:

Sooooo...don't buy one?
Oh, sure! Unless it's as successful as the 7mm or 6.5 Creedmoor, it'll probably remain little more than background noise. But a question was asked and I tried to answer it. The gun world is already crazy complex (especially when you get into some of the historical stuff) and additional complexity without sufficient offsetting benefit can be annoying.
powerbelly
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AgLA06 said:

powerbelly said:

AgLA06 said:

I sent my dad that article Saturday. He's been looking to build something new for his all around hunting rifle similar to a .280. Something with more umph than his .257 that he can use on just about any big game in Texas, but with a shorter barrel and less recoil than his 300 win mag.

Seemed like this could be it if it becomes mainstream.


A 257 can handle any big game in texas
That's your opinion. And definitely true if only hunting hill country or east Texas white tail. 110 gr isn't what he wants to shoot for larger white tail, exotics, and big game. He's looking for something more in the 150 - 165gr range. And a .257 doesn't fit that bill. He's looking for a combination of ballistics, bullet size, barrel length, and kick. He's narrowed it down to something between a 6.5 to .280.

His all around rifle right now is a .300 win mag shooting 180gr bullets. If he was going to step down to 100gr - 110gr bullets he'd just shoot his .243 that he loves. That's not what he wants.

And I agree with what he's trying to do as he physically fine in his 60s, but looking to drop the long length and kick of his win mag. Especially since he probably won't chase elk anymore, but it's always a possibility. And he wouldn't feel comfortable using a .257 on larger game (fallow, axis, nilgai, elk. etc.) at shots over 200 yards. It's also why he been hesitant to go 6.5 Creedmoor even though it should work as well. Since confidence is a big force in good shooting, I'm okay with him being picky.
A .257 Weatherby has killed Cape Buffalo. I am pretty sure it can handle anything else in Texas. However I get wanting something new if that is the driving factor.
AgEng06
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powerbelly said:

AgLA06 said:

powerbelly said:

AgLA06 said:

I sent my dad that article Saturday. He's been looking to build something new for his all around hunting rifle similar to a .280. Something with more umph than his .257 that he can use on just about any big game in Texas, but with a shorter barrel and less recoil than his 300 win mag.

Seemed like this could be it if it becomes mainstream.


A 257 can handle any big game in texas
That's your opinion. And definitely true if only hunting hill country or east Texas white tail. 110 gr isn't what he wants to shoot for larger white tail, exotics, and big game. He's looking for something more in the 150 - 165gr range. And a .257 doesn't fit that bill. He's looking for a combination of ballistics, bullet size, barrel length, and kick. He's narrowed it down to something between a 6.5 to .280.

His all around rifle right now is a .300 win mag shooting 180gr bullets. If he was going to step down to 100gr - 110gr bullets he'd just shoot his .243 that he loves. That's not what he wants.

And I agree with what he's trying to do as he physically fine in his 60s, but looking to drop the long length and kick of his win mag. Especially since he probably won't chase elk anymore, but it's always a possibility. And he wouldn't feel comfortable using a .257 on larger game (fallow, axis, nilgai, elk. etc.) at shots over 200 yards. It's also why he been hesitant to go 6.5 Creedmoor even though it should work as well. Since confidence is a big force in good shooting, I'm okay with him being picky.
A .257 Weatherby has killed Cape Buffalo. I am pretty sure it can handle anything else in Texas. However I get wanting something new if that is the driving factor.
I'm pretty sure at some point a .22LR has killed a cape buffalo...
mts6175
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Iteresting take by Ron Spomer. Personal opinion is I'd stick with my .270 WSM.

https://www.ronspomeroutdoors.com/blog/68-western-vs-65-prc-amp-270-wsm

SanAntoneAg
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AG
We won't critique for being two days late to the party.

https://texags.com/forums/34/topics/3176744/replies/58541234
Gig 'em! '90
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