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Helicopter Mountain Goat Hunt

2,418 Views | 19 Replies | Last: 4 yr ago by ZoneClubber
cupofjoe04
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AG
Sign me up...

https://www.outtherecolorado.com/national-park-to-use-aerial-gunners-to-kill-invasive-mountain-goats/

Quote:

An operation to kill the mountain goats that have invaded Grand Teton National Park and threaten the existence of the park's struggling bighorn sheep herd is beginning Sunday, officials said.

A large swath of the high Tetons, including the north and west slopes of the iconic Cathedral Group, will be closed to the public as aerial gunners contracted by the park spend up to a week locating and shooting at the approximately 100 goats


In all seriousness, this is an interesting read (not a lot of detail... maybe someone can find a better report?). A creative solution to a very unique problem.
JeremiahJohnson
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I applied or am applying for 4 mountain goat states. I have applied in colorado 5 years. I definitely would have paid big bucks to take care of their "problem"
ttha_aggie_09
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I get the purpose of this but this part is kind of a bummer:
Quote:

Another change allowed meat from the killed goats to be salvaged, but recovering any animals shot this coming week is unlikely, Germann said.


I was also sure this was going to be about some flat lander taking a chopper up to the top of the mountain to shoot a goat. That's probably the only way I would ever shoot one, unless I go to Kodiak... goat hunting is not for us flat landers.


cupofjoe04
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I hear ya, bummer to waste. But where these goats are it would be REALLY tough to recover. And they are an imminent threat to the Big Horn Sheep, so I think the key is trying to get them eliminated in the competing areas ASAP. They can wipe out the sheep with disease in the blink of an eye.

We have a Tier 1 Big Horn population here in southern Colorado (purely native, no introduced genes). They are around 450 sheep I believe, in 3 herds that cross at times. Not only do wild goats compete for habitat and food, the sheep are HIGHLY susceptible to disease transmitted from goats (domestic and wild). It is a serious problem keeping the sheep separated from the domestic sheep/goat leased grazing areas.
ttha_aggie_09
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Makes total sense... Are the population numbers that low in your area? I hunted outside of Weston, CO and swore I saw 80-100 bighorn during the hunt. One day was a group of 40-50 and the other days were smaller groups of rams or ewes. Not questioning you, just shocked to hear the numbers are that low.

Thinking about it now, it makes sense. Especially given the price tag for a 180"+ Bighorn in the area... holy smokes!
iamtheglove
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Same thing going on up here in Washington state. Someone relocated mountain goats years ago to the Olympic National Park from the cascades. Now they're everywhere. Copter shooting as well as tranquilizing and re-lo back to the native habitat in the cascades. There were several goat attack's over the last couold years that prompted action.

BradMtn346
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I'm sorry, but I hate this. This is just another example of why the National Park Service needs to have its management totally overhauled. Aka fired.

This was not a problem that came up all of a sudden. It had been building for years. Just like the elk in Rocky Mountain NP. Instead of letting the apex hunter in, the decided to keep their petting zoo status and pay big bucks to government snipers. Apex hunter is man.

What should be a money making opportunity is now costing tax payers. Disgusting.
cupofjoe04
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Good point. Interesting take I hadn't considered!
Aggie_3
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BradMtn346 said:

I'm sorry, but I hate this. This is just another example of why the National Park Service needs to have its management totally overhauled. Aka fired.

This was not a problem that came up all of a sudden. It had been building for years. Just like the elk in Rocky Mountain NP. Instead of letting the apex hunter in, the decided to keep their petting zoo status and pay big bucks to government snipers. Apex hunter is man.

What should be a money making opportunity is now costing tax payers. Disgusting.


So much this!!!!
cupofjoe04
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I am certainly no expert, but I've noticed a downtick in my short time here.

The most recent official thing I have seen was the 2012 Data Analysis on the Weminuche Herd, comprising S15, S16, and S28. I want to say the pop estimate was around 460 for all 3 units. But I've seen/heard some varying estimations as well- anywhere from 405 to 425, as recent as 2018. So it doesn't seem to be trending up to me.

I talked with a biologist a few years ago who said they are worried about lambs dying, and weren't sure why. They have an order to euthanize bighorns that come into contact with domestic sheep, and they had euthanized 6-7 bighorns that summer (I think it was 2017). That was a dramatic uptick, as they had only euthanized 1 or 2 in the previous 5 years combined.

When I first moved here, I would see bighorns on Wolf Creek Pass occasionally, and could usually find at least one band of ewes with just a few miles of hiking in that area. I know someone who has private land way up by the old Rainbow Trail, and you could sit on their porch and see bighorns skirting the cliffs. They would see them fairly regularly, but in the past 3-4 years have only seen them a handful of times. There is another spot near way up in the Williams Drainage region that has been a very steadily used lambing area. I hike and camp up there a lot, and would almost always see bighorns. 90% of the time it would be bands of ewes & lamps (sometimes 40+ sheep), but occasionally groups fo 4-8 rams. I helped 2 different people take ewes up there in 2016 and 2017. Luck would have it, when I drew a tag this past year, they were no where to be found. I had a friend with a ewe tag, and spoke to a local ram hunter, and we all had the same experience. Something dramatically changed with the sheep, they simply weren't in the drainages they have been in recent years. But no one seemed to find more of them anywhere else. With our abnormally hard winter last year (and coming off a record drought the year before), I suppose it's possible they had a big die off, or a bunch got caught in avalanches or whatnot.

Bottom line- people just aren't seeing them like they used to. I could be way off, but that is just my experience. CPW is in the middle of a 5 year study. They fly and record data. But they are always asking for volunteers to help spot and track them. I'm planning on spending a few nights this summer WAY back in the mountains looking for them.
ttha_aggie_09
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Disappointing to hear... makes you wonder why they're still letting ranchers run sheep on BLM and other public lands that support bighorn populations.

Short clip/gif of one of the groups of bighorn I saw. The video doesn't do it justice but there are Probably 40 in this group scattered on the hillside, away from the concentrated group in the center.
cupofjoe04
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That's an awesome clip! Thanks for sharing!

Only reason I can see that they continue to allow grazing is $. Maybe long-standing contracts? It's a problem though, at least down here. I've heard they have been very worried with the herds that run north of Vallecito (between Pagosa and Durango). Issues up north of Durango as well.
87Flyfisher
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Governor of Wyoming got the shoot suspended:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/4866066002
LEJ
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It seems to me that the biggest problem with BHS is BHS. They are not very hardy, much like domestic sheep.

cupofjoe04
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87Flyfisher said:

Governor of Wyoming got the shoot suspended:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/4866066002


Great find! Thanks for sharing.

I'm really glad they are going to dialogue more about this. I can only hope (but don't expect) the dialogue to be productive.
BullSprig07
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LEJ said:

It seems to me that the biggest problem with BHS is BHS. They are not very hardy, much like domestic sheep.



"Born looking forward a place to die" that's how I heard a biologist put it on an episode of the meateater podcast some while back. It's crazy because they've adapted to live in some of the most extreme terrains but they catch a cold and the whole herd dies.
cupofjoe04
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While I agree with you that they aren't as hardy as many other animals, and don't seem to be adapting well to new challenges like many animals do- it's hard for me to fault them when the chief threats are habitat loss (not their fault), fragmentation (not their fault), and diseases from domestic contact (not really their fault).

Whole herds of BH's are wiped out by bacterial pneumonia transmitted from domestic sources. I think we have created an environment that has made them less able to avoid & adapt to challenges, and then introduce foreign disease into an already weakened situation.

Not that I think you are suggesting we stand by and do nothing. That's just my thoughts, but perhaps I don't really understand the situation.
LEJ
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We're basically on the same page.

However, Darwinism does not care who's at fault.

Only people care about who's at fault, so they can eventually lay blame and point fingers.

The future of the BHS is pretty obvious. We just aren't ready to accept it.
cupofjoe04
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LEJ said:



The future of the BHS is pretty obvious. We just aren't ready to accept it.
Sadly, this is very true.
BradMtn346
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Regarding the sheep grazing permits. Most of those have been there longer than the federal government. I'm a cow man. I really don't like sheep, but I wouldn't see them have their grazing permits revoked. Every time a grazing permit gets revoked, a ranch in the valley, aka, winter range, gets subdivided. Winter range loss to houses is the largest loss of elk habitat in Colorado.
ZoneClubber
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Utah is having a similar problem. Mountain goats were transplanted from another part of Utah in 2013 to the La Sal mountains in SE Utah, an area that had no goats. Now there is a dispute between some environmentalists, the US Forest Service and Utah Division of Wildlife Resources. The fight is whether the US Forest Service can remove the goats based on damage to the alpine areas, over the objection of the Utah state wildlife department who wants them there for hunting income.

According to studies, in addition to eating and trampling sensitive plants, mountain goats kick up flowers, mosses, and any other vegetation to create large dusty wallows for bathing and resting in. The exposed topsoil easily blows away, and the alpine ecosystem loses nutrients. In a high-elevation environment where many plants grow just millimeters annually, these bare patches scar the landscape for years, which negatively affects other species of plants and animals.

A federal court recently weighed in, opining that Utah controlled the keys to the goat car, not the Feds.

A beautiful animal, but goats are goats and can be destructive.
Court upholds Utah efforts to keep goats
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