FIDO*98* said:
I'd get a Glock 19 and share it
Southpaw 07 said:
The specifics of this idea will probably be mocked, but why not 2x HiPoint 9mm ($159 ea at Academy) or something in a similar price point? You could be out the door with 2 guns plus some ammo for $400.
They aren't slim, sexy, or fancy, but I'd rather have ugly protection than none at all. You can always save for something nicer down the line.
I agree with this completely. I am not sure your price range but, you can arm 2 people with a reliable firearm for ~$500.BenderRodriguez said:Southpaw 07 said:
The specifics of this idea will probably be mocked, but why not 2x HiPoint 9mm ($159 ea at Academy) or something in a similar price point? You could be out the door with 2 guns plus some ammo for $400.
They aren't slim, sexy, or fancy, but I'd rather have ugly protection than none at all. You can always save for something nicer down the line.
Police departments are dumping .40 pistols right now.
Granted most are full sized guns, which are a little harder to conceal....but I've seen M&P 40s for ~$230 bucks.
There were places a few months ago trying to dump their Gen 1 M&P shields in 9mm and 40 for close to that price, and those are great carry guns.
There are low budget options out there if you needed to arm two people.
1. Me. I train more but not enough.AZAG08 said:
Taking budget, and suggestions on how to get 2 for the price of 1, out of it I think the OP poses an interesting question.
The question could be split in two:
- When you are together who would carry assuming only one gun
- When you are apart who gets to carry
TheEyeGuy said:
I can get two people outfitted with pistols for under $300, if need be. You don't get to be picky, obviously, but we also won't be looking at Hipoints either.
Best assistant ever!jabberwalkie09 said:TheEyeGuy said:
I can get two people outfitted with pistols for under $300, if need be. You don't get to be picky, obviously, but we also won't be looking at Hipoints either.
Seems like an optimal chance to have a matching set of his and her Yeet Cannons. Also seems like an excellent opportunity to start a Texian wedding registry of sorts.
Beachbabe19 said:
My husband had guns first but I've always been around guns- I now have a 9mm, 7mm 08, and use a 12 gauge shotgun for protection while he's out of town.
Southpaw 07 said:
The specifics of this idea will probably be mocked, but why not 2x HiPoint 9mm ($159 ea at Academy) or something in a similar price point? You could be out the door with 2 guns plus some ammo for $400.
They aren't slim, sexy, or fancy, but I'd rather have ugly protection than none at all. You can always save for something nicer down the line.
BenTheGoodAg said:
You know on a flight, they tell you to take care of your own oxygen mask before others? Does that concept apply here?
Not sure if serious.... if so, shotguns have a... reputation.... on the OB for causing home defense debate. If just trolling, good job, got me... keep it going.Beachbabe19 said:
Naveronski what do you mean?
Beachbabe19 said:
Naveronski what do you mean?
Stasco said:
Okay yeah, but won't the AR overpenetrate the walls and harm my family?
Quote:
I'm not saying shotguns aren't effective stoppers. I'm not saying they won't work. But if penetration of traditional interior walls is a concern, a shotgun is your WORST possible option. I know it seems counter intuitive that a shotgun penetrates more than a rifle, so don't take my word on it. Seriously, google the phrase "ammunition penetration through drywall" and click on any of the links and tests done by all kinds of people. The consistent theme will be that shotguns penetrate more interior walls than any other option. Translation: Shotgun pellets are still flying at lethal speeds well after 5.56 rounds are tumbling, losing velocity and becoming less lethal. Ignoring every other reason that an AR is a better home defense choice, this alone should be enough of a reason to ditch the shotgun and consider an AR inside the home.
If I was sleeping in a room directly opposite of any random OBer and could pick what weapon they would be using for home defense that might be sending rounds in my personal direction, I would pick an AR in 5.56 every single time. Hell, if I had an OBer roommate who only owned a shotgun I'd loan or buy them an AR just to minimize the chance of them sending buckshot flying my direction (no I'm not looking for a roommate).
One last thought: Lightweight ARs are cheap and easy to build. The lightest weight for an 18" shotgun I could find with a quick search was a Remington 20 gauge synthetic stock 870 express that came in at 5 3/4 lbs unloaded. The rifle below also weighs 5 3/4 lbs unloaded....but that is with a red dot and a light on it (a loaded 30 round magazine weighs ~1 lb).
So given that both guns weigh the same, would you prefer to use a rifle that penetrates walls less dangerously, has 30 rounds on tap, has a red dot for easy aiming even in low light conditions, a light to identify the target and only requires you to pull the trigger again if the threat isn't stopped immediately? Or would you prefer a 20 gauge shotgun with 5 shells max (or 4 if you keep the chamber empty) with only a front bead for sighting (and anyone who tells you you don't need to aim a shotgun in close quarters such as a bedroom can safely be ignored from that point forward in firearm discussions), no light for target ID, and on top of every other deficiency, a gun you have to manually eject and chamber each time you want to shoot in a high stress situation? For the purposes of this thread, which would you want your daughter to depend on if her life was on the line?
I've said my piece, yet again. I repeat the same info in thread after thread about shotgun penetration, but the myths refuse to die. Steve Bott, I sincerely hope you do some research on the subject and pick the best possible tool for your daughter that minimizes the potential risk to her roommates. Don't take my word for it, look into it yourself. It's not me saying you're making a really awful choice by picking a shotgun when you're worried about penetration, it is everyone who has ever done any comparative testing of shotguns, rifles and handguns fired through drywall. The data is out there for anyone willing to spend 10 minutes researching the subject. If you worry about interior wall penetration, stop advocating shotguns. They're the worst.
I completely agree with you on this. However, with the prices for used SD9s and especially SD40s, it's possible to get two very reliable (even if the trigger absolutely sucks) for under $300. And they are freaking everywhere. I buy them used for like $75 now and... I apparently offer more than a lot of stores do on them.Naveronski said:Southpaw 07 said:
The specifics of this idea will probably be mocked, but why not 2x HiPoint 9mm ($159 ea at Academy) or something in a similar price point? You could be out the door with 2 guns plus some ammo for $400.
They aren't slim, sexy, or fancy, but I'd rather have ugly protection than none at all. You can always save for something nicer down the line.
No.
One quality firearm is better than two very ****ty, bottom of the barrel, just barely functioning, anything.
TheEyeGuy said:I completely agree with you on this. However, with the prices for used SD9s and especially SD40s, it's possible to get two very reliable (even if the trigger absolutely sucks) for under $300. And they are freaking everywhere. I buy them used for like $75 now and... I apparently offer more than a lot of stores do on them.Naveronski said:Southpaw 07 said:
The specifics of this idea will probably be mocked, but why not 2x HiPoint 9mm ($159 ea at Academy) or something in a similar price point? You could be out the door with 2 guns plus some ammo for $400.
They aren't slim, sexy, or fancy, but I'd rather have ugly protection than none at all. You can always save for something nicer down the line.
No.
One quality firearm is better than two very ****ty, bottom of the barrel, just barely functioning, anything.
One thing I do want to add because I don't think it's addressed in that post, at least. There are two main reasons that people gravitate towards shotguns for home defense: reliability and "spread". In regards to reliability, I actually feel a handgun or a decent AR will be a better option due to the tendency to short stroke a pump under stress. Most of us that have hunted with a pump have done it just because we were too excited about a second shot on a dove, now amplify that times 1000% because you have some jackhole breaking into your house. The second... spread. All the time, people come into the store and want shotguns. I ask them why, they say "It spreads." We then have to go into how, in the case of a home invasion, the spread is not enough to keep you from having to aim the stupid thing and all that jazz. In fact, in doors, there really is no spread. So, now you have low capacity, slow reload, and crazy over penetration.Naveronski said:Beachbabe19 said:
Naveronski what do you mean?
Bender has a pretty good writeup about it. Basically, if your choices are a deer rifle or a shotgun, use the shotgun. If you have an AR-15 or a shotgun, use the AR without question.Stasco said:
Okay yeah, but won't the AR overpenetrate the walls and harm my family?Quote:
I'm not saying shotguns aren't effective stoppers. I'm not saying they won't work. But if penetration of traditional interior walls is a concern, a shotgun is your WORST possible option. I know it seems counter intuitive that a shotgun penetrates more than a rifle, so don't take my word on it. Seriously, google the phrase "ammunition penetration through drywall" and click on any of the links and tests done by all kinds of people. The consistent theme will be that shotguns penetrate more interior walls than any other option. Translation: Shotgun pellets are still flying at lethal speeds well after 5.56 rounds are tumbling, losing velocity and becoming less lethal. Ignoring every other reason that an AR is a better home defense choice, this alone should be enough of a reason to ditch the shotgun and consider an AR inside the home.
If I was sleeping in a room directly opposite of any random OBer and could pick what weapon they would be using for home defense that might be sending rounds in my personal direction, I would pick an AR in 5.56 every single time. Hell, if I had an OBer roommate who only owned a shotgun I'd loan or buy them an AR just to minimize the chance of them sending buckshot flying my direction (no I'm not looking for a roommate).
One last thought: Lightweight ARs are cheap and easy to build. The lightest weight for an 18" shotgun I could find with a quick search was a Remington 20 gauge synthetic stock 870 express that came in at 5 3/4 lbs unloaded. The rifle below also weighs 5 3/4 lbs unloaded....but that is with a red dot and a light on it (a loaded 30 round magazine weighs ~1 lb).
So given that both guns weigh the same, would you prefer to use a rifle that penetrates walls less dangerously, has 30 rounds on tap, has a red dot for easy aiming even in low light conditions, a light to identify the target and only requires you to pull the trigger again if the threat isn't stopped immediately? Or would you prefer a 20 gauge shotgun with 5 shells max (or 4 if you keep the chamber empty) with only a front bead for sighting (and anyone who tells you you don't need to aim a shotgun in close quarters such as a bedroom can safely be ignored from that point forward in firearm discussions), no light for target ID, and on top of every other deficiency, a gun you have to manually eject and chamber each time you want to shoot in a high stress situation? For the purposes of this thread, which would you want your daughter to depend on if her life was on the line?
I've said my piece, yet again. I repeat the same info in thread after thread about shotgun penetration, but the myths refuse to die. Steve Bott, I sincerely hope you do some research on the subject and pick the best possible tool for your daughter that minimizes the potential risk to her roommates. Don't take my word for it, look into it yourself. It's not me saying you're making a really awful choice by picking a shotgun when you're worried about penetration, it is everyone who has ever done any comparative testing of shotguns, rifles and handguns fired through drywall. The data is out there for anyone willing to spend 10 minutes researching the subject. If you worry about interior wall penetration, stop advocating shotguns. They're the worst.
I don't sell them because I don't want to have to buy 5 of them at once to get the pricing to be competitive, but they sell for under $275 most of the time online. There are so many, especially on the SD40s that no one really wants (not because they are a bad gun but because they just are unpleasant to shoot) that they are hard to move at retail. So, we used to buy them at $100 and sell for $200 but I was getting more in than I wanted so I dropped the buy price.Naveronski said:TheEyeGuy said:I completely agree with you on this. However, with the prices for used SD9s and especially SD40s, it's possible to get two very reliable (even if the trigger absolutely sucks) for under $300. And they are freaking everywhere. I buy them used for like $75 now and... I apparently offer more than a lot of stores do on them.Naveronski said:Southpaw 07 said:
The specifics of this idea will probably be mocked, but why not 2x HiPoint 9mm ($159 ea at Academy) or something in a similar price point? You could be out the door with 2 guns plus some ammo for $400.
They aren't slim, sexy, or fancy, but I'd rather have ugly protection than none at all. You can always save for something nicer down the line.
No.
One quality firearm is better than two very ****ty, bottom of the barrel, just barely functioning, anything.
I had no idea the SD9's were that cheap now.
Still better than a hipoint, even if not amazing.
TheEyeGuy said:
One thing I do want to add because I don't think it's addressed in that post, at least. There are two main reasons that people gravitate towards shotguns for home defense: reliability and "spread". In regards to reliability, I actually feel a handgun or a decent AR will be a better option due to the tendency to short stroke a pump under stress. Most of us that have hunted with a pump have done it just because we were too excited about a second shot on a dove, now amplify that times 1000% because you have some jackhole breaking into your house. The second... spread. All the time, people come into the store and want shotguns. I ask them why, they say "It spreads." We then have to go into how, in the case of a home invasion, the spread is not enough to keep you from having to aim the stupid thing and all that jazz. In fact, in doors, there really is no spread. So, now you have low capacity, slow reload, and crazy over penetration.
