Trump, the head of the FAA and the CEO of Boeing all agreed prior to his announcement that grounding the fleet was the best move to ensure there are no further issues.agfan2013 said:
See the thread on the general board, has an actual pilot who has flown the 737 max (assuming he's not m f barnes-ing us). The guy thinks they are safe planes. But as noted above, Trump just grounded all of them so you might want to worry about if you even have a flight to get wherever you were going.
Check this thread out
SWCBonfire said:
I've only been on one 737 Max on southwest, and the first question I had for the flight attendant was if they could even land and takeoff at Midway. Noticeably longer.
txaggie02 said:
I flew SW from HOU to OKC today. If you go to their website to make a reservation, you can click on the flight number and it will tell you what type of plane you will be flying in for that particular trip. As others mentioned, it's a non-issue for now though.
redass1876 said:
Please, with all your wisdom, explain how this is an aircraft issue. You sound like one of those gun grabbers that just yell "well, we have to do SOMETHING"
The planes fly as designed. Pilots in the crashes are flying them like old 737s and are fighting the flight control systems. I did say they needed training. That does not make this a design issue
Grounding the plane was still a good idea; the system (pilot + aircraft + training) is definitely flawed at the moment. I don't think anyone is debating that.GAC06 said:
And it looks like Boeing, and virtually every aviation regulatory agency on the planet shares that view.
Thirdhand info is always the most reliable.redass1876 said:Grounding the plane was still a good idea; the system (pilot + aircraft + training) is definitely flawed at the moment. I don't think anyone is debating that.GAC06 said:
And it looks like Boeing, and virtually every aviation regulatory agency on the planet shares that view.
Max 8 has been in service for almost 2 years and this is just now an issue in design?
I'm going to stick with the info i have gathered from flight test engineers i used to work with in my flight test days that have friends doing the same job at Boeing, over what the news tells me
It's more fun to watch this play out.Mr. AGSPRT04 said:
Who wants to tell him?
Quote:
The MAX's Safety Features Cost Extra, Weren't Onboard Doomed Flights
Anonymous company insiders at Boeing now allege two safety features offered as options were not aboard the two crashed 737 MAX-8 aircraft. The upgrades include an angle of attack indicator and a disagreement light, which lights up when the angle of attack sensors report different data. One of those could soon become standard on future 737 MAX aircraft.
Whistleblowers inside Boeing now accuse the company of upselling two safety features on the 737 MAX aircraft, both of which were not found aboard Lion Air Flight 610 or Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302. Speaking under anonymity to The New York Times, company employees allege the aircraft did not have an angle of attack indicator or disagreement light on board, which were both sold as add-ons by the Chicago-based manufacturer.
The two products offer additional information for pilots of the 737 MAX aircraft to aid them in decision making. The angle of attack indicator shows readings from the angle of attack sensors, while the disagreement light turns on when the two sensors report different readings. The anonymous employees claim neither of the doomed aircraft had either option on board, which they say could have helped the pilots in correcting flight issues prior to the crash.
The practice of selling safety features as add-on equipment is not new for Boeing. In a SEC filing dating back to 2003, Brazilian airline Gol was charged over $500,000 in extras, including $18,400 for floor-mounted emergency path lighting, $6,700 for oxygen masks with smoke goggles for the pilots and $37,800 for passenger chemical oxygen generators.
In comments to The New York Times, both American Airlines and Southwest Airlines say they purchased the disagreement light with their aircraft. American also included the angle of attack indicator, while Southwest has it in a separate display above the pilots. The company insiders claim Boeing will include the disagreement light as standard equipment for future Boeing 737 MAX aircraft, while Boeing is committed to updating the MCAS software systems.
Boeing has not commented directly on the accusations, but in an open letter to the public from earlier in March, company chairman, president and CEO Dennis Muilenburg reassured that safety was the manufacturer's first priority.
"Boeing has been in the business of aviation safety for more than 100 years, and we'll continue providing the best products, training and support to our global airline customers and pilots," Muilenburg wrote. "Soon we'll release a software update and related pilot training for the 737 MAX that will address concerns discovered in the aftermath of the Lion Air Flight 610 accident."
Quote:
company employees allege the aircraft did not have an angle of attack indicator or disagreement light on board,
Quote:
The Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX, which crashed in March and killed 157 people, suffered a damaged angle-of-attack sensor upon takeoff from a bird or foreign object, triggering erroneous data and the activation an anti-stall system -- called MCAS -- sending the pitch of the plane downward and ultimately crashing into the ground, two aviation sources familiar with the investigation told ABC News.
As the jet was nose diving, the Boeing 737 MAX pilots did not try to electronically pull the nose of the plane up before following Boeing's emergency procedures of disengaging power to the horizontal stabilizer on the rear of the aircraft, according to the sources.
One source told ABC News that they manually attempted to bring the nose of the plane back up by using the trim wheel. Soon after, the pilots restored power to the horizontal stabilizer.
With power restored, the MCAS was re-engaged, the sources said, and the pilots were unable to regain control and the plane crashed.
The preliminary findings in the crash investigation are expected to be released by transportation officials in Ethiopia on Thursday morning.
Earlier Wednesday, Boeing released a statement that said, "we urge caution against speculating and drawing conclusions on the findings prior to the release of the flight data and the preliminary report."
MORE: Anti-stall system was activated before Ethiopian Airlines Boeing 737 MAX crash: Sources
French and American investigators are assisting in the Ethiopian probe and at the center of it is an automated anti-stall safety system on the MAX and its possible link to issues in the Ethiopian flight and a Lion Air crash in 2018.
In both crashes, the Boeing 737 MAX aircraft struggled to maintain a steady flight path. The planes repeatedly lost and gained altitude before entering a dive to the earth's surface. In the two incidents, a new anti-stall safety system on the MAX that controls trim -- MCAS -- was activated, sources have told ABC News.
MORE: New details emerge about the Boeing 737 Max plane involved in Ethiopian, Lion Air crashes
Commercial airline pilots are trained to disengage the system in the event of runaway trim, when the airplane is making unexpected pitch movements. It is unknown what would have kept the pilots of the Lion Air flight from disengaging the system and trimming the aircraft. Lion Air has defended the training of its pilots.
In the days following the crash of Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302, airlines and aviation authorities around the world grounded the MAX. The United States was the last to do so on March 13, after the Federal Aviation Administration concluded the refined satellite data that became available to the agency that day warranted a temporary grounding of the MAX.
MORE: Boeing reveals proposed updates to 737 MAX amid scrutiny of automated safety system
Last week, the acting FAA administrator went to Capitol Hill to defend the government's response to the two crashes. Daniel Elwell told senators on Wednesday that while the FAA may have been among the last aviation regulators in the world to ground the MAX, it and Canada were the first to make a decision based on robust data from the aircraft.
Boeing says it is working a software update for the automated safety system and it is expected to be approved by the FAA and offered to airline in a few weeks.
