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Need OB's Perspective - Remington Outdoor Company

1,544 Views | 16 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by EskimoJoe
yutyutag05
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AG
Hey OB, I don't post too much here (lots of productive lurking), but I figured this would be a good audience to glean some info from. I'm writing a paper on Remington's Chapter 11 and impending turnaround and wanted gauge the board on a few things:

1. Other than product defects (Walker Trigger causing negligent discharges), is there anything that is product-related that may have caused the company's decline?

2. For the distributors and heavy purchasers...EyeGuy. What is it like to deal with Remington? Time to market with products? Customer service interactions?

3. Any strengths that the company possesses? I know they're only one of two U.S. Firearms Manufacturers that produces both weapons and ammo so that's an obvious one.

4. Any known issues with the production facilities/practices? I know they've done some recent (within the past 5 years) expansions in hopes of ramping up production demand spikes, but that is all that I know. There may be folks on here that have dealt with them directly and it would be helpful to get their POV on how Remington performs in comparison to their competition.

TLDR VERSION: People smart on all things related to Remington as a company, please chime in for a desperate grad school student.

Any help or perspective would be greatly appreciated! TIA!
IDAGG
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AG
I believe they were burdened with a lot of debt from a private buyout of the corporation a few years ago. That looms large in their chapter 11 filing. They couldn't service their large debt load.
IDAGG
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AG
They screwed the pooch with the acquisition of Marlin and their abysmal quality after moving production of those lever rifles to the Remington factory in N.Y. I am sure that didn't help as well.
Chazz03
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I want to see the MLA citation for the expert advice you get from OB
Furlock Bones
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AG
IDAGG said:

I believe they were burdened with a lot of debt from a private buyout of the corporation a few years ago. That looms large in their chapter 11 filing. They couldn't service their large debt load.
this is numero uno.
yutyutag05
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There will definitely be a footnote with: "Experts from TexAgs' Outdoors Board."
gibberish
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Ahhh Remington.

A company that I would like to see succeed given some of the products storied histories, but who knows if they'll ever recover.

Sorry I don't have any specific insight to add beyond as a consumer watching their many missteps from QC failures and bad product launches.
DatTallArchitect
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AG
If I remember correctly, the guys from X-Caliber barrels (in Montana) previously worked for a barrel manufacturer that was bought out by Remington then promptly moved out of state (Alabama, if memory serves me right). They obviously didn't want to move, so they started their own company. That seemed like a strange business decision to me. With something like that, your employees are your biggest asset.
agfan2013
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AG
To question #1, two more recent things stand out in my mind: (1) You had the R-51 pistol fail miserably when Remington tried to enter the CCW market and even after the redesign, the pistol still hasnt earned most of its trust back. (2) Next, is that you can find a lot of anecdotal evidence across the internet (Im talking lots of other message boards, not just Texags) that the new 870s are just not as reliable as they used to be. I personally know 4 people with basic model 870s and two or three of them had to send them back for repairs/adjustments because they didnt function well out of the box. QC seems to be an issue with them across the board.

Sad to hear as I own two 700s that are great shooters and my 870 Wingmaster has knocked more doves out of the sky than I can count.

I'm sure there's more behind the scenes with their acquisition and debt structure that is beyond my knowledge that someone else will chime in on, but from a product standpoint, those two things jumped right out in my mind.
gibberish
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Don't forget they moved states too, that can't be good for the bottom line if you already have money issues.
CactusThomas
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1. The firing of all the Marlin employees who knew how to make rifles and moving production to the Remington facility run by drunken monkeys. Oh and look into the r51 fiasco. That could be a paper topic by itself.

3. Brand recognition. They did an excellent job of earning a reputation for quality by manufacturing good products for decades. Unfortunately they have completely gotten away from that but their reputation remains. Primarily among uninformed customers who may not have bought a firearm in several years.
yutyutag05
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Thanks for everyone's responses! It definitely uncovered some items that I was unaware of.
hurricanejake02
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My personal beef with them (and I'm far from alone if the internet is to be believed) is the practice of screwing customers over on rebate items, and denying any responsibility because they farm it out to a 3rd party.

Anecdotal at best, but I'm one of at least 3 guys on my lease (3/15 is not a good percentage, especially when not all 15 participated) who didn't have rebates returned in the appropriate time frame, got far less than the actual rebate value, or simply never received their rebates.

I personally swore I'd never give them another dime of business from that day on.
Walter Kovacs
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Aren't there more than two companies that make both ammo and guns? Probably a lot more if you look at custom high end shops. Companies may farm out ammo production but I doubt many will say who does the loading. Remington, Nosler, and Weatherby have ammo and guns. Does Winchester count? I'm not sure who owns what between FN and Olin. The same goes for Browning and Sig USA. Does it count if they have guns and ammo produced here but are owned by foreign corporations?
TheEyeGuy
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Sponsor
AG
From the dealer side....

Remington is pretty much a dinosaur. In fact, I don't actively have anything from Remington in stock that isn't used, though part of that is because of what we sell.

Here's the thing: customer confidence in the Remington name is incredibly low, and that saddens me. I grew up shooting a 700 bolt gun for hunting purposes... in fact it was my grand daddy's 30-06. However, they are slow to change and have had too many very public miscues. As such, I stock Savage over Remington, for the most part, because even I trust Savage more. In addition, I don't use Remington Actions on our custom guns anymore, either, unless asked to.

Compounding those previously mentioned issues is the fact that, in Remington's eyes, I'm too small of a fish for them to mess with. This is not just a remington thing, though, Ruger/Savage/Remington all do the same thing. What frustrates me as a dealer, however, is that I don't even have a rep. Other big names.... Sig Sauer, Glock, etc, all have someone that I can call and talk to about product and that comes by to show new stuff. Remington, however, does not. So, the only interaction I have with Remington is either at SHOT show or if there's a warranty issue.
Owner of Texian Firearms:
Dealer in Firearms, Optics, Night Vision and other shooting accessories.
US importer/distributor of Rudolph Optics
Supporting bad financial decisions since 2015
yutyutag05
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Good to know, I may need to do a quick fact check on my source that I pulled that from. It may be from a scale perspective, but Weatherby is a fairly large manufacturer. Thanks WK!
yutyutag05
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Thanks EyeGuy, you confirmed my suspicions. I have to make recommendations for the turnaround and one business development-related action that I'm toying with is focusing more on smaller distributors. I've read numerous articles about this disconnect with the smaller customers and limited sales involvement.

The other gap that I've taken note of is their over-reliance on big box stores (we know how that movie is ending) and while it is a much easier/cheaper business case to have a centralized sales model that deals with key accounts, breaking down the sales org will be critical for long term growth once they come out of this Chapter 11.

Good stuff all, thank you again!
EskimoJoe
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Remington had lived on name alone for a while. several years ago, my brother and I each bought a 22-250 for picking off coyotes and prairie dogs. He spent $800 on a Remington 700 sps vtr with the triangle bull barrell, then another 500 or so on a scope. I spent $330 on a savage axis & scope package.

he gave me a lot of hell until we went shooting prairie dogs and my $330 savage rifle & scope package deal was out shooting his $1300 Remington "sniper rifle" setup.
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