Outdoors
Sponsored by

School shooting solutions?

3,759 Views | 35 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by BowSowy
LoudestWHOOP!
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:57a, 2/19/18
AG
I trust the opinions of this board about firearms and their safety.
We have all heard the news.
We know what they want to do politically.
What would your solution be to school shootings.
My kids are out of college, but one is a public school elementary teacher.

I have some thoughts and ideas on what to do in the school and thought I would run it by y'all. These of course are not all my ideas but a collection of ideas heard and seen from many sources. I would like your thoughts. Mental health issues are someone else's part to fix, but that needs to happen also.

Secured "Airlock" entrance where you have to be buzzed in.
Key card entry to campuses.
Closed campus may need to become the norm.
Ballistic vests issued to the teachers and administrators at the school. Panels would probably have to be level 3 for rifle, 3a for pistol.
Secure door systems or add-ons. I have seen these in the past... Link - Fighting chance solutions
Ballistic Shields - I had only seen them for SWAT teams but saw this on Demo Ranch. Ballistic Sheilds - Do they work?
Ballistic blankets - $900 for 3a protection 4'x6'

Close the blast doors - have doors seal off hallways to slow the shooter down.
Pepper spray for teachers? - Yes, I know this last guy had a mask.

Concealed carry? - who trains them and how often
Finger printed lockbox in the classroom? - again for CHL holders
Additional armed security from police or former military on campus

What did I miss?
What are the pluses and minus of these?
If you are a teacher/principal I would really appreciate your input being the one's who have to make this work from the inside.

EDIT:
Also thought that if the doors a wooden that they could be clad with steel possibly.
I posted it below (with a link) but also wondered if a RING video doorbell could be used to control access.
Reply Quote
1
1 edit
TwoMarksHand
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:00a, 2/19/18
AG
We can barely fund education as it is now. How in the world do you suppose you can afford all that?

Best thing I can think is to allow teachers to carry, and do away with the gun free zone.
Reply Quote
32
normaleagle05
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to LoudestWHOOP! • 9:18a, 2/19/18
AG
LoudestWHOOP! said:
Mental health issues are someone else's part to fix, but that needs to happen also.

This is our current policy on a national basis. Seems to be working poorly. Maybe we should all start with a more proactive approach here.
Reply Quote
14
LoudestWHOOP!
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to TwoMarksHand • 9:23a, 2/19/18
AG
TwoMarksHand said:
We can barely fund education as it is now. How in the world do you suppose you can afford all that?

Best thing I can think is to allow teachers to carry, and do away with the gun free zone.
Political but ... Shrink Dept of Ed to a dozen people(if not the preferred complete removal), move school funding from Federal to Local and stop educating children of illegals.
Reply Quote
13
Eliminatus
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:29a, 2/19/18
AG
This is one of the questions that is asked over and over and the answer is provided over and over. (Not a rant against you OP btw)

Takes a good guy with a gun to stop a bad guy with a gun.

The automatic instinct is for everyone to circle the wagons and armor up. It won't work. Some things just need a direct counter of the same variety. This is proven over and over elsewhere. Take counter-sniper operations for example. You can armor up, use sniper screens, differ your routes, etc... Nope, the best weapon is another sniper. Always has been. Same deal here.

The options PRE shooting are myriad, murky, and controversial.

Options DURING a shooting; good guys with guns. Be they students, teachers or admin, or on site security. (Preferably all three). Allow adults to defend themselves and others. It is also the most cost effective by far.
Reply Quote
14
1 edit
Wycliffe
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
9:38a, 2/19/18
You have to stop violence with violence.
Reply Quote
6
TwoMarksHand
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to LoudestWHOOP! • 9:38a, 2/19/18
AG
LoudestWHOOP! said:
TwoMarksHand said:
We can barely fund education as it is now. How in the world do you suppose you can afford all that?

Best thing I can think is to allow teachers to carry, and do away with the gun free zone.
Political but ... Shrink Dept of Ed to a dozen people(if not the preferred complete removal), move school funding from Federal to Local and stop educating children of illegals.
That would be a pretty great start.
Reply Quote
3
dodger02
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Eliminatus • 9:50a, 2/19/18
AG
I'll counter this by saying, however, that when schools put forth big bond packages to build and/or renovate facilities, shouldn't adequate physical security be one of the top priorities?

In a few weeks, I am going to be asked to vote for a big bond package to build schools which actually can accommodate our district's tremendous growth. Why should I not require those putting forth the bond to include physical security measures like controlled/limited entry, secure door systems, etc.?
Reply Quote
4
cr
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to TwoMarksHand • 9:56a, 2/19/18
TwoMarksHand said:
We can barely fund education as it is now. How in the world do you suppose you can afford all that?

Best thing I can think is to allow teachers to carry, and do away with the gun free zone.


Barely fund education? Where did you get that? My isd has a Taj mahal football stadium, ipads for elementary students, new buildings, and a crap ton of administration. And so do the isds within a 50 mile radius of me.

Do you have some stats?
Reply Quote
6
Josepi
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:00a, 2/19/18
AG
At my children's school, you have to be "buzzed" in from the office to get into the school during school hours. However, all of the doors are glass. It would take about 3 seconds to shoot the glass, kick it out, and walk right through. It's not an effective deterrent.
Reply Quote
1 edit
DannyDuberstein
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:01a, 2/19/18
AG
If it's a priority, we need to limit and control access points much more effectively. My kid's schools seem to do this reasonably well. Of course, passing time-frames are always a risk, there are other ways around it, and not all schools are designed for it. But it's one line of defense that, at a minimum, could buy some time between when people are aware of a shooter and kids start getting shot. Then there is armed security.

Passing more laws will do nothing.
Reply Quote
1
2 edits
LoudestWHOOP!
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Josepi • 10:03a, 2/19/18
AG
Josepi said:
At my children's school, you have to be "buzzed" in from the office to get into the school during school hours. However, all of the doors are glass. It would take about 3 seconds to shoot the glass, kick it out, and walk right through. It's not an effective deterrent.
Maybe expanded metal/mesh over the windows with an internal-only accessed lock?
Reply Quote
1
LoudestWHOOP!
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:04a, 2/19/18
AG
I was also wondering if the Ring- doorbell camera could be used in schools.
Reply Quote
Eliminatus
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to dodger02 • 10:04a, 2/19/18
AG
dodger02 said:
I'll counter this by saying, however, that when schools put forth big bond packages to build and/or renovate facilities, shouldn't adequate physical security be one of the top priorities?

In a few weeks, I am going to be asked to vote for a big bond package to build schools which actually can accommodate our district's tremendous growth. Why should I not require those putting forth the bond to include physical security measures like controlled/limited entry, secure door systems, etc.?
No reason you shouldn't. If your district can afford it by all means go ahead. But it is not feasible for every school out there. But if it can be done at places, I am for it. As I mentioned options pre shooting are legion, yet controversial in feasibility when looking at macro view. More than a few of my HS classes were in trailers. At a 5A school. No way to put a security control entry point on that. You can't protect against every single what if for every single kid in the US.

My point is that when a shooting DOES occur and is ongoing the best and most effective way to stop it is with violence.
Reply Quote
9
dodger02
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to Eliminatus • 10:19a, 2/19/18
AG
I agree with you to a large extent and I'm going to try not to get into the same exact argument that I did with my wife over the weekend. She's an elementary school teacher and they use portable buildings, too. There are also three schools located on the same stretch of property; students have to walk from building to building.

It's not an optimal situation.

But just because there are vulnerabilities and physical limitations like the use of external buildings and structures doesn't mean that one shouldn't exhaust all available options to provide the most secure environment reasonably possible.
Reply Quote
LoudestWHOOP!
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:05p, 2/20/18
AG
Was thinking last night after listening to some talk radio where they stated the fact that there was nothing to take the Florida shooter in for even with his threats.
I was wondering if a person makes a "provable threat" (like the Florida shooter did) could they be temporarily added to a list that prevents them from purchasing a firearm.
I know the government doesn't seem very good at keeping their current list up to date.
Also what constitutes a provable threat to a government bureaucrat?
Probably a slippery-er slope ... just thinking out loud.
Reply Quote
1 edit
powerbelly
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to LoudestWHOOP! • 12:07p, 2/20/18
AG
LoudestWHOOP! said:
Was thinking last night after listening to some talk radio where they stated the fact that there was nothing to take the Florida shooter in for even with his threats.
I was wondering if a person makes a "provable threat" could they be temporarily added to a list that prevents them from purchasing a firearm.
I know the government doesn't seem very good at keeping their current list up to date.
Also what constitutes a provable threat to a government bureaucrat?
Probably a slippery-er slope ... just thinking out loud.
There should be no lists that deprive citizens of rights without due process.
Reply Quote
8
LoudestWHOOP!
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to powerbelly • 12:10p, 2/20/18
AG
powerbelly said:
LoudestWHOOP! said:
Was thinking last night after listening to some talk radio where they stated the fact that there was nothing to take the Florida shooter in for even with his threats.
I was wondering if a person makes a "provable threat" could they be temporarily added to a list that prevents them from purchasing a firearm.
I know the government doesn't seem very good at keeping their current list up to date.
Also what constitutes a provable threat to a government bureaucrat?
Probably a slippery-er slope ... just thinking out loud.
There should be no lists that deprive citizens of rights without due process.
I see what you mean, just like the "no-fly list" made up by the Feds.
Reply Quote
1
powerbelly
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
In reply to LoudestWHOOP! • 12:11p, 2/20/18
AG
LoudestWHOOP! said:
powerbelly said:
LoudestWHOOP! said:
Was thinking last night after listening to some talk radio where they stated the fact that there was nothing to take the Florida shooter in for even with his threats.
I was wondering if a person makes a "provable threat" could they be temporarily added to a list that prevents them from purchasing a firearm.
I know the government doesn't seem very good at keeping their current list up to date.
Also what constitutes a provable threat to a government bureaucrat?
Probably a slippery-er slope ... just thinking out loud.
There should be no lists that deprive citizens of rights without due process.
I see what you mean, just like the "no-fly list" made up by the Feds.
Exactly.
Reply Quote
poet0715
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
12:36p, 2/20/18
AG


I really like Colion's thoughts on how to battle these types of shootings...
Reply Quote
5
DiskoTroop
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
3:39p, 2/20/18
Maybe the $500,000,000 we give to planned parenthood could be rerouted to school security. It would be about 10% of what would be needed but it'd be a step in the right direction.

As a security professional I can tell you a school is a difficult place to secure. Security culture is primary and when you have a couple thousand kids doing a chinese firedrill every 45 min to change classes, it gets really tough. To do it right would require phase one planning of security enhancing architecture. Simply design the school to be tight. But that's not very conducive to the designers and artists among us. Nor does it help our schools already standing.

The way I see it our kids are much much more likely, statistically, to be injured in a school shooting than a fire. But if that school didn't have a monitored fire alarm, fire extinguishers everywhere, a sprinkler system and run fire drills annually, we'd be calling for heads to roll... right?

Why on God's green earth are we not adequately protecting our schools?
Reply Quote
6
2 edits
ghollow
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
4:04p, 2/20/18
AG
I am all for allowing teachers to conceal carry if they are trained and licensed. My wife is a teacher. Many of the teachers at her school are ex-military/law enforcement who are on their second career. They would be perfect for this scenario. It would be on a volunteer basis only and the kids would not know who is carrying.

Something else that might be worth considering is not allowing anyone under the age of 21 to buy a semiautomatic weapon of any kind. Allow them to possess them just not buy them. It puts the responsibility of actually purchasing a semi-auto on someone who is old enough to know better.
So the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced. It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.
Reply Quote
1
BlueSmoke
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
4:35p, 2/20/18
Making smaller and harder to acquire spoons won't keep people from being fat. As stated. You fight violence with violence. And the first step is to get rid of these established hunting parks for the deranged - gun free zones. They don't work. Period. Get rid of them.

Introduce the element of the unknown. Give these cowards pause. That p***y in Aurora supposedly bypassed multiple theatres that allows concealed carry and targeted one that does not. You want to spend more of my tax payer money. Subsidize CHL classes for teachers that want to take them. Also give them the same discounts LE professionals get (on gun prices).

And in a perfect world, we'd implement the best security system man has ever seen - dogs. Specifically school safety dogs.
Nobody cares. Work Harder
Reply Quote
1
CactusThomas
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
4:46p, 2/20/18
AG
Privatize education
Reply Quote
1
coyote68
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:15p, 2/20/18
You don't see our airplanes get hijacked anymore. Kill a couple of shooters and it will stop.
Reply Quote
redass1876
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
5:20p, 2/20/18
AG
You forgot "asking the FBI to follow up on leads"
Reply Quote
3
cbminers
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:12p, 2/20/18
AG
Lots of interesting ideas on this thread.

Privatize the critical thinking.
Privatize the implementation/application.
Privatize the installation, maintenance, training, etc. associated with any "solutions."
Tie the success of any measures implemented back to someone's bottom line.

Don't let the government, in any capacity, near any of it.

Do all of that and you have a chance at getting this done for a reasonable cost, on a reasonable timeline, and with a reasonable expectation for success. Let the feds handle it and you get TSA 2.0.
Reply Quote
bigtruckguy3500
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:15p, 2/20/18
The only realistic means by which we can defend school children from these extremely rare events is by allowing teachers to be armed under the right conditiosn (already having a CHL, for example). I think it's completely non-sutainable in the vast majority of this country to put an armed guard in every school. Sure, you could cut money from somewhere else and raise money from somewhere else to pay for it, but as soon as the most recent shooting fades from peoples' minds, that part of the budget will be on the chopping block. Unless it's run by the feds, in which case it'll be a big government jobs program like the TSA.

Also the phrasing of this shouldn't be "arming teachers," because it makes it sounds like we're forcing teachers who don't know how to use guns to have to carry one on their hip. Believe me, I've had this conversation with folks. We should instead say that we need to "stop disarming" teachers.
Reply Quote
2
OldCamp
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:29p, 2/20/18
Quote:
You forgot "asking the FBI to follow up on leads

While it makes complete sense that the police should follow up on leads, I'm not sure how much good it would do in these situations. They can take someone in for questioning but until they commit a jailable offense or get convicted of a crime you won't be limiting their access to guns or their ability to murder.

The real answer is allowing people to fight back.
It's time to start holding schools and the state accountable for not taking common sense measures to protect our kids. We protect banks, and airports and sporting events but we don't protect our own children at school. It's crazy.
Reply Quote
GE
User Profile
Private Message
Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:43p, 2/20/18
AG
Make it an entirely state problem rather than national. Gives you the chance to try 50 different solutions. Hopefully one works and the other states adopt.
Reply Quote
5
ThunderCougarFalconBird
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:15p, 2/20/18
AG
Get rid of schools as we currently know them. Giant box filled with kids is a 150 year old solution and not much of one. We have the technology now to approach the entire concept of education in a million different innovative ways but for some reason, we keep falling back on (1) build large box, assign kids to box based on geography, (2) subdivide box, assign kids to sub-box based on age, (3) expect better results.

If there is no school, there is no school shooting. It's time to re-evaluate how we educate.
Reply Quote
5
SanAntoneAg
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
10:47p, 2/20/18
AG
Go ahead and fund school building security to rival the country's most secure buildings. Be sure to include the additional personnel needed to make it happen. Then fund adequate security for the perimeter of the school property, I.e. exterior fence, then do the same for the school buses that transport the kids to and fro each day. For each school across the country.

If you can't fathom how this can't be funded without a paradigm shift of state and federal funding, then this utopian idea of completely secured schools, or any public building or gathering for that matter, ain't gonna happen.
Reply Quote
1
Aggie Infantry
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
6:48a, 2/21/18
AG
My son got his first gun when he was 5, was an Infantryman in the Army, and has a CHL. Now he is a teacher. I would think that he should be able to carry his sidearm.

How many other teachers out there are prior service in the Army or Marines? USAF does not count - they don't have to qualify with their weapons in Basic Training ;-) ?
Reply Quote
26.2
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
7:10a, 2/21/18
STOP PLASTERING THE SHOOTERS FACES AND NAMES ON EVERY WEBSITE AND NEWS SEGMENT.

How stupid can we be? These shooters are sick little losers who want infamy. Don't give it to them.
Reply Quote
1
Todd 02
User Profile Ignore User Stop Ignoring
How long do you want to ignore this user?
24 hours One week Permanently Cancel
8:47a, 2/21/18
AG
Sign outside my kids' school...

Reply Quote
1
Page 1 of 2 ▼
 
×
subscribe Verify your student status
See Subscription Benefits
Trial only available to users who have never subscribed or participated in a previous trial.