Allen76, we've had some good discussions on mesquite on the boards in the past. Need to get some advice on your tractor/PTO/sprayer set up you're using. Think we may be ready to move from ATV tank set up to get more serious. Reply back to this thread and I can get you my contact info, just want to be sure you're around before posting my digits.

Bump to try again

Your next step up is a towable 150-300 gallon tank with strainer, PTO powered roller pump, and cluster or boombuster nozzle for broadcast spraying, and hose and spray wand for directed spraying (not spot spraying, it doesn't turn off and on quickly and completely). Red Ewald, Continental Belton, etc.

One big problem you're going to have foliar spraying mesquite with something like sendero is getting high enough with a standard broadcast sprayer. You can fabricate extensions out of square tubing to get your nozzles higher (or use the cattle spraying wand), but drift (especially towards you) is a problem.

Bump. Good info Swc. Also, don't think you are going to use pipe for an extension and just run the solution thru it to get it high enough. The threads on an extension can't take the ant mounds and rough ground and you will be tweaking your design while you reload the sprayer, even if you brace the pipe up some. But sometimes you have to do what you have to do. All depends on how much you need to spray. I suggest airplane tires on tractor and sprayer too along with a drift control like Crosshair.

SWCBonfire said:

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Your next step up is a towable 150-300 gallon tank with strainer, PTO powered roller pump, and cluster or boombuster nozzle for broadcast spraying, and hose and spray wand for directed spraying (not spot spraying, it doesn't turn off and on quickly and completely). Red Ewald, Continental Belton, etc.

One big problem you're going to have foliar spraying mesquite with something like sendero is getting high enough with a standard broadcast sprayer. You can fabricate extensions out of square tubing to get your nozzles higher (or use the cattle spraying wand), but drift (especially towards you) is a problem.

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Thanks for the reply. We have been battling mesquite for years. We grub, aerial spray some, and use remedy/diesel (in the past) for what we term basilar spray for medium to large trees and foliar (whole plant) spraying for small to tiny mesquite. It is lethal when applied circumferentially around the trunks of even huge trees.

So we have always used the terms foliar (spraying all the leaves of the plant) versus direct basilar spraying (just around the trunk covering everything up to 3 feet above ground).

Can you clarify your terminology in your post? Broadcast spraying vs. directed spraying vs. spot spraying?

We have used demand pumps (only come on and use the ATV battery when trigger is pressed) and ATVs for years, but ready to upgrade our technology and killing power.

Thanks, may send you a PM as well.

He can chime in more, but broadcast spraying is equivalent to aerial spraying but doing it with a ground-based applicator (ie: cover all acreage).

Spot spraying is what you are used to with an ATV mounted handheld applicator. (A person can spot spray using either basal or foliar treatments like you mentioned.)

As SWC mentioned, when using a tractor PTO driven pump, there is no way to turn off the sprayer after treating each individual plant like you can with an ATV pump. If you try to turn off the PTO, some fluid is going to continue draining from your spray hose until the pressure stops the flow. What he means by directed spray is using the spray hose from a larger PTO sprayer like you would an ATV sprayer, but instead of stopping between plants, needing to move directly from one plant to the next to continuously spray. If you put a garden hose type lawn spray nozzle on the end of the hose, if you release the spray nozzle to stop spraying, the pressure generate by the PTO pump will likely result in your hose blowing due to excessive pressure before you get to the next plant. Trying to turn the PTO off, control the spray wand, and drive the tractor all at once is a hard task.

In my experience, if you want to use a larger tank and PTO sprayer to spray specific plants, it is going to take two people. One to drive the tractor and one to control the spray hose.

I would be interested to know what Allen is using.

How large (tall) of mesquites are you trying to treat?

Yeah, we're talking using a "cattle sprayer" gun to continually spray using the wand. Usually they leak all over your hand, and you get spray all over you. Read: they suck.

Most broadcast sprayers are designed assuming you are spraying cleared fields. A "cluster" nozzle will spray up and out, but if you're in windy areas it's no bueno. Boombuster nozzles essentially direct a stream out and downward so that you can mimic the distribution pattern of a boom without the physical width of the boom itself (mixed results in terms of even distribution, slightly higher pressures required IIRC, etc.)

There isn't a good way to spray taller mesquite. Cluster nozzles will go up some, but it is designed to put a uniform band of spray on the ground, and is streaky at higher elevations. And they get clogged easily (hence the in-line strainers on many sprayers). Boom busters are more uniform, but as mentioned, you have to almost make a custom rig to get them high enough to spray over the tops of even relatively young mesquite. We actually rigged up an old sprayer tank and frame with an adjustable height boom w/ a pair of boom busters on it for spraying mesquites long ago; but most don't have the access to such a rig. Pretty sure that the TCEQ (and your wallet) would frown upon spraying them with a tree sprayer (not to mention the residual in the machine when you're finished).

If you can get a custom applicator to do it with their taller rigs, that may be the best bet. You can always come back and basal treat what they couldn't drive over. I've also seen sendero applications that were obviously aerial sprayed that were very successful.

Allen must be out spraying mesquites or doctoring cows, because normally he would have responded to you by now.

I'm a died-in-the-wool basal sprayer when it comes to mesquites, so I can't offer much help to you other than this --

I would imagine you could plumb in an unloader valve on your PTO pump sprayer and use a trigger gun so that it wouldn't be in a constant 'on' position.

We used high pressure chemical spray rigs (electric pumps) in my manufacturing operation and always installed unloaders for that very purpose. If you're not familiar with an unloader, just think of it as a pressure activated bypass valve that redirects pump output back into the input when the trigger gun is 'off'. Every coin-op carwash you've ever used operates with them.

Those valves don't cost that much (maybe $50.00) and they're fairly simple to plumb in. You'll need to size them for flow and pressure, but those values should be shown in the specs for your PTO pump and spray nozzle. Flow won't vary based on your spray nozzle size, but pressure will.

The unloader will have an adjustment knob on it, but you'll still want to be within the correct pressure range for your pump flow and nozzle pressure.

Regardless of what you end up using, enjoy killing the mofo mesquite.

The spray wand on my little PTO sprayer shuts off pretty well. When I release the trigger, I hear a click and nothing passes after that. I don't know anything about the brand.

I do use the PTO switch a lot so my pump is not running if I am not spraying. I only leave it running if there are just a few seconds between one spray and the next.

I also replace my hoses every two years..... they are cheap.... you can see them bleed slightly when they get old. But this is another reason why I don't let my PTO pump run unnecessarily.

Allen76 said:

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The spray wand on my little PTO sprayer shuts off pretty well. When I release the trigger, I hear a click and nothing passes after that. I don't know anything about the brand.

I do use the PTO switch a lot so my pump is not running if I am not spraying. I only leave it running if there are just a few seconds between one spray and the next.

I also replace my hoses every two years..... they are cheap.... you can see them bleed slightly when they get old. But this is another reason why I don't let my PTO pump run unnecessarily.

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Allen, thanks for the replies. We are serious about upgrading and your rig sounds like what we want. I'd be grateful for some guidance on make and model of your sprayer wand and tank/pump set up. I posted my digits in the other thread. Let me know and I'll re post if you'd be willing to help out a fellow mesquite killer with some tech info.

Ribeye, SWC, milkman- thanks for the posts and info.

Wanted to bump this thread and ask fellow mesquite killers where you are finding your best prices on Sendero. We have done pretty well at the local feed store but we are upping our game with a PTO-driven sprayer and a tractor (picking up this week) and will begin going through a lot more product next year. We will spray a bit while it's still hot but ramp up next May.

What have you been paying for Sendero and where are you buying? Any online places to check out?

Thanks!

I usually wait until Tractor Supply has their 10% purchase coupon to buy certain chemicals. Often times it coincides with other sales.

I use a mix of RM43 and Remedy and it seems to do most of what i need

For B/CS area, check out Brazos Bottom Crop care. Didn't buy any this year but last year they were cheaper than either Producers or TSC. They don't have a website so you'll have to call and ask what their price is. The TSC coupon idea is a good one too.

dr_boogs said:

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... will begin going through a lot more product next year.

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I see you can get a 30-gallon drum of Sendero for about $4K online from Forestry Distributing.

Just don't pick the thing up with a hay spike!

Since I'm a satisfied triclopyr (generic Remedy) guy, I've never bought or used Sendero, so I don't know whether that's a good price or not.

What have you been paying?

Thanks for that find. 4K is a little steep for this year since we are on the hook for a tractor. We have been paying 125.00 a gallon.

We still use Remedy as well. Sendero is safe around live oaks and has a better kill than Remedy. Plus you don't have to mix it with diesel or corn oil. Easier on your pump internals.

Call your local Wilbur Ellis or CPS dealer. 30 gal drum can save you $10-20/gallon if I remember correctly.

We're looking forward to your photos and write-up of your new rig.

Have you seen this ad?

https://victoriatx.craigslist.org/grd/d/goliad-brush-sprayer/6948613925.html

Thanks! We went with a JD 4044 and a PTO driven sprayer that mounts on the back of the tractor for improved maneuverability. Will post some photos and a write up in the next week or 2 once we've got it up and running.

Today's price is $115/gallon for 30 gal drum. $145/gal individually.

Perhaps call your local feed store and see what they would charge for a 30 gallon drum.

dr_boogs said:

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Thanks for that find. 4K is a little steep for this year since we are on the hook for a tractor. We have been paying 125.00 a gallon.

We still use Remedy as well. Sendero is safe around live oaks and has a better kill than Remedy. Plus you don't have to mix it with diesel or corn oil. Easier on your pump internals.

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Sendero is great stuff when timed properly (ground temp high enough and before it starts wanting to make beans)... but a basal spray of remedy and diesel (applied correctly) in hot, dry weather is as close to a sure thing as there is in this world for any smooth bark mesquite bush. And by correctly, I mean on foot and pulling each limb back to find out where it goes into the ground if it isn't obvious. And that means the one that pops up out of the grass 3' away, too. A lot of work, but certain death if done correctly, and 4 gallons goes a LONG way if you're just carefully spraying the stems with no overspray. You can even get a relatively good kill on huisache if you up the remedy to 25%.

Are y'all saying it's ok to still spray mesquite now? Not too late?

It's never too late to spray mesquite. I kid I kid.....a little.

Here's my take after fighting them for 20 years. You can kill mesquite with herbicides year round. However most are more effective during certain times of the year. For example w Sendero you want the plant to be moving carbohydrates from leaf to the root. So you can spray them x days after bud out, but you don't spray during bean elongation when the plant is sending reserves topside. Once bean elongation has finished, you can go back to spraying. There is a nice table/chart on the dates. Soil temp has to be at a minimum threshold with sendero and you don't want to spray severely drought stressed trees. With remedy that's not such an issue because most folks use it as a basilar spray and you aren't relying on the leaf uptake to take chemical to the root. During cooler months we put up the sendero and don't basilar spray much, we use cut stump and spray the stump immediately w 25% remedy in diesel. It's deadly even in January (and easier w snakes and the heat to run saws in the winter). Bottom line, pick your herbicide and method to get after them no matter the time of year.

Has anyone had good luck spraying very small new plants this time of year? I'm talking where you barely have a foot of new growth from the ground? Is there a downside to spraying the whole plant with Remedy and diesel versus cutting it off and then spraying the very small stump?

This is in ground that was rootplowed in 2017 or in relatively clean pastures.

milkman00 said:

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Has anyone had good luck spraying very small new plants this time of year? I'm talking where you barely have a foot of new growth from the ground? Is there a downside to spraying the whole plant with Remedy and diesel versus cutting it off and then spraying the very small stump?

This is in ground that was rootplowed in 2017 or in relatively clean pastures.

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If it's under 12", spray the whole damn thing with remedy and diesel. Never cut off one that is small to spray the "stump", that should be reserved for larger bushes/small trees. You want a minimum surface area to absorb chemical and translocate to the roots.

Thanks.

Would you use an X1 tip even though you are spraying the whole plant, or would you use the X8 tip that is designed for leaf spray?

Have you noticed whether the tip selected makes a difference in your experience?

You can use a fan nozzle or a cone nozzle. Fan can actually work better if you pull the mesquite back to where it is exposed and going into the ground. If the spray tip is in-line with the stem, you can pull with one hand and spray with the other. In other words, you have to try to put 100% of the fan on the stem with no overspray - in other words, turn the tip to where the fan is spraying perpendicular to your face. If you're not coordinated enough, put the nozzle right on the stem and let it run down, or use the cone nozzle.

milkman00 said:

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Has anyone had good luck spraying very small new plants this time of year? I'm talking where you barely have a foot of new growth from the ground? Is there a downside to spraying the whole plant with Remedy and diesel versus cutting it off and then spraying the very small stump?

This is in ground that was rootplowed in 2017 or in relatively clean pastures.

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I spray those with Sendero this time of year. I try to stay away from anything that has been damaged, dried up, etc. But the fresh, healthy little plants die about 100%.

Every year I think I am finished in early July. Then a few weeks later (now) all the grass dries up and these little mesquites pop up. I can kill tons of them with a small hand pump sprayer so I do that rather than wait until next year.

Dr, Boogs, are you sure about that $125.00 per gallon price? I think I have been paying $158.00 this year from Helena Chemical. I havent checked lately but I have been buying from Helena the last few years because they were much cheaper than any of the feed stores.

If that is right, I would like the name of the place you are getting that from..... my brother lives in College Station and I can get him to buy some for me to get a considerable savings over what I am paying.

Also Dr Boogs.... I have been checking the 700+ yard fenceline that I cut stump treated diesel/Remedy last year and tried to use your "four minute rule" and I havent found one re-sprouting yeat. I think it worked pretty well.

Edit: wow I am too tired... making all kinds of mistakes..... I spray those little plants with Sendero, not Remedy

Allen - my dad gave me the 125.00 price for the feed store in Coleman. He's been buying the chemical the last few years so his price may be off/dated. I can confirm this coming week.

However, Brazos bottom Crop Care is selling it for 135.00 a gallon. Those are good guys over there too. Thanks to the poster AgFan who posted above in this thread for that find. If you want 30 gallons I think they quoted me 115 or 105 a gallon for 30 gallons.

Crazy how important the timing is for applying the remedy and diesel with cut stump, right? I was amazed at how much better our kill was when we started to apply immediately. Glad that's working out for you.