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Elevation certificate

5,116 Views | 33 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by SteveBott
yippee2
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AG
Flood insurance company is requiring a elevation certificate. I've owned property for 20 years and never needed this. The survey company quoted $600/ per certificate

Any idea if this is a good quote?
$240 Worth of Pudding
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Depends on the structure, location, etc.
That's certainly not a gouge by any means.

Are you doing new construction? Refinancing? Why the EC request all of a sudden?
Agmechanic
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Sounds like I need to charge more for elevation certs
SteveBott
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No way to know as said too many variables not disclosed. But I agree if it's non residential pretty competitive and maybe a tad high for suburbs.

If your high up the hill you will save thousands on lower flood insurance premiums so well worth the costs.

Flood plains change every 10 years or so if you have a mortgage that might be driving the request. You may now be in flood plain and when purchased you were not.
RK
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I just got one for $350.
sellthefarm
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Location? Post your address or coordinates and I'll give you a quote if you're in central Texas.
FourAggies
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This product may not serve the same purpose, because I was proving to my mortgage company and home insurance company that I was not in a flood plain on Lake Traivs, rather than providing an elevation certification for flood coverage. The prior owner referred me to CoreLogic Flood Services at www.floodcert.com . It cost me $20. I don't know how extensive their files are.
Doc Hayworth
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$350 and $600 are a bargain. I won't do them for less than $1800. You can not do what needs to be done correctly for 300 or 600 dollars. Too much liability in preparing one, to charge so little for it. Surveyors have lost their licenses not doing them correctly, without getting into detail.
FishingAggie
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New FEMA regs have been kicking in. We've seen some insane insurance quotes if you're below FEMA's flood plain. I mean like $10k a year. It's nuts. Lots of low level properties are being sold cheap because the insurance is not affordable.

I'm on the coast but a friend of mine in kerrville is having a big problem because he's in the 100 year flood plain. This is a huge issue in Florida and east coast. People are raising houses to get out of the higher rated flood zones. Everything In port a is in stilts now as well. I guess that has something to do with it
schmellba99
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Doc Hayworth said:

$350 and $600 are a bargain. I won't do them for less than $1800. You can not do what needs to be done correctly for 300 or 600 dollars. Too much liability in preparing one, to charge so little for it. Surveyors have lost their licenses not doing them correctly, without getting into detail.
What all is involved in them that would justify such a cost? Shooting grade is shooting grade, I'm assuming the preparation paperwork is the driving factor?

I am still bitter about mine - the FEMA map is literally the developer's plat map with a hand drawn line showing flood zones. My property survey showed the extent of the 100 year flood zone only partially on the back side of my property - but since the hand drawn FEMA map is the guideline, I get to pay for Zone AE rates. Even with the Memorial Day flooding last year we didn't get water within 1/4 mile of the house.

The electronic map has the flood zone limits about where my survey showed it to be...except there is a magic bubble that coincidentally jumps out and encompasses my property only. Not my neighbor on the east, not my neighbor on the west....just my little sliver of land. Amazing how that worked out.
normaleagle05
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Shooting grade is easy and happens on site. It's the relative difference in two readily observable things. Determining real elevation reliably happens off site through differential leveling and time consumimg GNSS work. The paperwork is not the cost driver, it's the field crew time, redundancy, and office post processing. Doc's number is not unreasonable to do it right, but a lot of people have too much confidence in the network receivers.
marcel ledbetter
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How can fema keep raising flood insurance rates with no limit? Many people finance a house purchase within a floodplain where flood insurance is tied to the mortgage. When flood insurance rates keep rising, I can see how some families would finally get to the point of being unable to afford the higher rates, and therefore unable to make payments on their house. Where I live, flood insurance keeps going up over the years to where its almost as much as a house payment. There ought to be a way to tell fema "enough" with ever rising flood insurance rates.
schmellba99
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normaleagle05 said:

Shooting grade is easy and happens on site. It's the relative difference in two readily observable things. Determining real elevation reliably happens off site through differential leveling and time consumimg GNSS work. The paperwork is not the cost driver, it's the field crew time, redundancy, and office post processing. Doc's number is not unreasonable to do it right, but a lot of people have too much confidence in the network receivers.
I've spent more than I care to remember hours behind a level shooting grade - it's simple math.

I guess I'm not up to date on what "determining real elevation reliably" means. You start with a known elevation, shoot your loop, double check your math and assuming it is within the allowable margin of error, there is no additional work required to determine elevation. Your math tells you what the elevation is.

If you were doing a property survey, I can understand the need for a lot of hours and time - that is absolutely time consuming. If your benchmark is 4 miles away, I can see the time also because closing a loop sucks when you are going more than a few thousand feet.
Ragoo
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marcel ledbetter said:

How can fema keep raising flood insurance rates with no limit? Many people finance a house purchase within a floodplain where flood insurance is tied to the mortgage. When flood insurance rates keep rising, I can see how some families would finally get to the point of being unable to afford the higher rates, and therefore unable to make payments on their house. Where I live, flood insurance keeps going up over the years to where its almost as much as a house payment. There ought to be a way to tell fema "enough" with ever rising flood insurance rates.
it is almost like you are flooded with flood insurance. Or drowning in flood insurance premiums. Irony and punny.
normaleagle05
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schmellba99 said:

If your benchmark is 4 miles away

This is almost always the case.
FishingAggie
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Jon H. Ryan said:

marcel ledbetter said:

How can fema keep raising flood insurance rates with no limit? Many people finance a house purchase within a floodplain where flood insurance is tied to the mortgage. When flood insurance rates keep rising, I can see how some families would finally get to the point of being unable to afford the higher rates, and therefore unable to make payments on their house. Where I live, flood insurance keeps going up over the years to where its almost as much as a house payment. There ought to be a way to tell fema "enough" with ever rising flood insurance rates.
it is almost like you are flooded with flood insurance. Or drowning in flood insurance premiums. Irony and punny.


My friend in kerrville got hit with $9000 FEMA bill.
His mortgage was only $24000k yearly and he couldn't make it work.

This apparently happened everywhere a flood plain exists. Especially along the coastal areas.

FEMA backed off and lowered the insurance back down but it's give up every year since. He's paying about 30% more now than he was and it's still supposed to go up. Apparently their position is if you want to live on the coast or next to a river, either be above the median flood plain ( which they are drawing and mapping themselves now) or pay the true premium of risk to live there.

He's trying to sell his home but people know about the insurance issue. It's crazy.

FEMA says it's not fair for people who don't live in the high flooding areas to subsidize the people who do. They were in the after sandy and all the hurricanes that hit Florida. We've looked at a lot of options but he's screwed I think. Wish some insurance folks would weigh in, but he's talked to everyone and they all say the same thing. He's in the worst zone FEMA has. I feel bad for him.
coyote68
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I am a builder.

In the old days it could be very time consuming for a survey crew if the benchmark was a considerable distance away. It is very expensive to pay for a crew, vehicle, equipment, insurance, and office overhead and still make a profit.

I tried to save money on houses around Lake Ravisband have the surveyor use the LCRA lake level for a benchmark. My surveyors told me stay out of their business.
$240 Worth of Pudding
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schmellba99 said:

Doc Hayworth said:

$350 and $600 are a bargain. I won't do them for less than $1800. You can not do what needs to be done correctly for 300 or 600 dollars. Too much liability in preparing one, to charge so little for it. Surveyors have lost their licenses not doing them correctly, without getting into detail.
What all is involved in them that would justify such a cost? Shooting grade is shooting grade, I'm assuming the preparation paperwork is the driving factor?

I am still bitter about mine - the FEMA map is literally the developer's plat map with a hand drawn line showing flood zones. My property survey showed the extent of the 100 year flood zone only partially on the back side of my property - but since the hand drawn FEMA map is the guideline, I get to pay for Zone AE rates. Even with the Memorial Day flooding last year we didn't get water within 1/4 mile of the house.

The electronic map has the flood zone limits about where my survey showed it to be...except there is a magic bubble that coincidentally jumps out and encompasses my property only. Not my neighbor on the east, not my neighbor on the west....just my little sliver of land. Amazing how that worked out.


Have you ever completed an EC? The type of structure and various items related to it play an integral role as well. Slab? Flood openings? Attached garage? Stairs leading to door? Equipment servicing the home? Etc, etc.

Some guys roll up, shoot an FFE at the front door step and think they've got what they need. What if there's a sunken living room?

It's not just simply shooting spot elevations.

Also, if you think you're getting screwed, get a flood study done, establish a BFE, and file a LOMA.
schmellba99
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Gota De Limon said:

schmellba99 said:

Doc Hayworth said:

$350 and $600 are a bargain. I won't do them for less than $1800. You can not do what needs to be done correctly for 300 or 600 dollars. Too much liability in preparing one, to charge so little for it. Surveyors have lost their licenses not doing them correctly, without getting into detail.
What all is involved in them that would justify such a cost? Shooting grade is shooting grade, I'm assuming the preparation paperwork is the driving factor?

I am still bitter about mine - the FEMA map is literally the developer's plat map with a hand drawn line showing flood zones. My property survey showed the extent of the 100 year flood zone only partially on the back side of my property - but since the hand drawn FEMA map is the guideline, I get to pay for Zone AE rates. Even with the Memorial Day flooding last year we didn't get water within 1/4 mile of the house.

The electronic map has the flood zone limits about where my survey showed it to be...except there is a magic bubble that coincidentally jumps out and encompasses my property only. Not my neighbor on the east, not my neighbor on the west....just my little sliver of land. Amazing how that worked out.


Have you ever completed an EC? The type of structure and various items related to it play an integral role as well. Slab? Flood openings? Attached garage? Stairs leading to door? Equipment servicing the home? Etc, etc.

Some guys roll up, shoot an FFE at the front door step and think they've got what they need. What if there's a sunken living room?

It's not just simply shooting spot elevations.

Also, if you think you're getting screwed, get a flood study done, establish a BFE, and file a LOMA.

No, not a surveyor. Spent a lot of time as field engineer back in my younger days doing layout and as-builts for structures and what not, so I am pretty good with the shooting grade, layout, etc. part of it.
Doc Hayworth
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Liability plays a big part of cost. The more expensive the structure & property, the greater chance of a claim if something unforeseen occurs.
If consumers don't like my quotes, it won't hurt my feelings if they go with a low baller that charges next to nothing. Anyway, I make more money when lending institutions and attorneys hire me to redo or verify the certificates that were, what I consider drive-by surveys.
JSKolache
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y'all ever had the pleasure of touring Cameron, LA? Buncha trailer on stilts, crazy...

Finn Maccumhail
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beefiedoubleoh said:

y'all ever had the pleasure of touring Cameron, LA? Buncha trailer on stilts, crazy...



Those places are all over in south LA.

I guess it make sense, you pay for a well constructed base of stilts and the platform, then drop the trailer onto the stilts with a crane, hook up your utilities and you're set. And then when the inevitable storm hits you're not out huge money because it was a POS trailer that blew away and not a super-nice house.
agnerd
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Gota De Limon said:



Also, if you think you're getting screwed, get a flood study done, establish a BFE, and file a LOMA.
I charge at least $20,000 for that. MUCH cheaper to go with the elevation certificate.
88jrt06
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coyote68 said:

I am a builder.

In the old days it could be very time consuming for a survey crew if the benchmark was a considerable distance away. It is very expensive to pay for a crew, vehicle, equipment, insurance, and office overhead and still make a profit.

I tried to save money on houses around Lake Ravisband have the surveyor use the LCRA lake level for a benchmark. My surveyors told me stay out of their business.
Good one!
Aggies Revenge
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beefiedoubleoh said:

y'all ever had the pleasure of touring Cameron, LA? Buncha trailer on stilts, crazy...


You do that in Kansas and wait for the first windy day, you will quickly find out why they are called mobile homes.
normaleagle05
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beefiedoubleoh said:

y'all ever had the pleasure of touring Cameron, LA? Buncha trailer on stilts, crazy...



I think we're looking at the future of residential construction in Houston.
The Shank Ag
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Smaller survey firms that aren't overloaded with work will do one for 325-350, which is pretty good for 1-2 hours of field work and 1-4 hours of CAD time.
$240 Worth of Pudding
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The Shank Ag said:

Smaller survey firms that aren't overloaded with work will do one for 325-350, which is pretty good for 1-2 hours of field work and 1-4 hours of CAD time.

Land surveyors are their own worst enemy. No way you can an EC correctly and be profitable at that rate.
SteveBott
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Never seen a survey in 15 years that cheap
$240 Worth of Pudding
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agnerd said:

Gota De Limon said:



Also, if you think you're getting screwed, get a flood study done, establish a BFE, and file a LOMA.
I charge at least $20,000 for that. MUCH cheaper to go with the elevation certificate.

Just saw this. I realize all of this. My point was to the guy who griping about getting "screwed" in his insurance rates.....there's a way out of it if he truly believes his property is mis-zoned and doesn't wanna pay his current rates. Didn't say it was a cheap out.
AggieChemist
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Jon H. Ryan said:

marcel ledbetter said:

How can fema keep raising flood insurance rates with no limit? Many people finance a house purchase within a floodplain where flood insurance is tied to the mortgage. When flood insurance rates keep rising, I can see how some families would finally get to the point of being unable to afford the higher rates, and therefore unable to make payments on their house. Where I live, flood insurance keeps going up over the years to where its almost as much as a house payment. There ought to be a way to tell fema "enough" with ever rising flood insurance rates.
it is almost like you are flooded with flood insurance. Or drowning in flood insurance premiums. Irony and punny.
Now we're just adrift in a sea of metaphors.
$240 Worth of Pudding
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AggieChemist said:

Jon H. Ryan said:

marcel ledbetter said:

How can fema keep raising flood insurance rates with no limit? Many people finance a house purchase within a floodplain where flood insurance is tied to the mortgage. When flood insurance rates keep rising, I can see how some families would finally get to the point of being unable to afford the higher rates, and therefore unable to make payments on their house. Where I live, flood insurance keeps going up over the years to where its almost as much as a house payment. There ought to be a way to tell fema "enough" with ever rising flood insurance rates.
it is almost like you are flooded with flood insurance. Or drowning in flood insurance premiums. Irony and punny.
Now we're just adrift in a sea of metaphors.

That's deep.
Animalsnoutlaws
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What would be a fair price for elevation survey in an undeclared flood plain?
91AggieLawyer
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This whole thing is what I don't understand about flood insurance. Ordinarily in the insurance business, if one company feels they are over-exposed in one area or another, they will re-insure some of their stuff with other companies, effectively spreading out the risk. The government can't do that. Yet, they still have private insurance agents sell the policies.

There has to be a better way to do this.
SteveBott
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Agents do not set rates or pricing just handle the customer service part
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