I trust a pump a little more than a semi, but I've been shooting an 870 wingmaster as my primary shotgun most of my life.



In before the "racking the slide scares the bad guy away" comment....

My brain short-circuited when I read the title and saw you posted this because I know your view on shotguns as a HD weapon (which I agree with).

But to answer your question, I'd go with the semi-auto.

Whichever one you have spent more time behind.

Semi-auto has greater capacity and quicker between shots, not much to think about for me.

Most of those disparaging semi-auto shotguns have had bad experiences using cheap guns or shotshells that particular type of gun isn't designed for. Thoroughly test out any gun with the type of ammo you want before you use it for self defense. My Benelli M2 is one of the most reliable guns I own. I've got tens of thousands of rounds through it.

I've seen a lot of shooters short stroke pumps when under stress/trying to go fast. They aren't nearly as reliable as people like to think.

It's a trap!

BenderRodriguez said:

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I have a hypothetical home defense question for yall.

You have two guns to decide between:

Pump gun: 5+1, standard sights.
Semi gun: 9+1, standard sights.

Both have proven reliable, and both weigh exactly the same loaded: 6 lbs, 2 oz. Which do you choose?

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Semi-auto given the bold in the hypo.

Semi-auto. Because this -

Quote:

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I've seen a lot of shooters short stroke pumps when under stress/trying to go fast. They aren't nearly as reliable as people like to think.

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lexofer said:

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I've seen a lot of shooters short stroke pumps when under stress/trying to go fast. They aren't nearly as reliable as people like to think.

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Obligatory:
I've been short stroking my pumps for years, but didn't know anyone was watching...and I'm not trying to go fast dammit, it just happens that way.

magnumtmp said:

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lexofer said:

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I've seen a lot of shooters short stroke pumps when under stress/trying to go fast. They aren't nearly as reliable as people like to think.

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Obligatory:
I've been short stroking my pumps for years, but didn't know anyone was watching...and I'm not trying to go fast dammit, it just happens that way.

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Username does not check out.

CS78 said:

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Whichever one you have spent more time behind.

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This is a common response to home defense questions, and one I disagree with.

Think about it this way: If you've replaced a wheel on a car with a lug wrench 200 times, you're pretty good at it, because you've spent a lot of time swapping out wheels with a lug wrench. But would be better to continue to use a lug wrench every single time you changed a wheel from now on, or take the minimal time and money investment needed to learn how to use an impact air wrench instead?

Both are capable of changing a tire, so does expertise with a lug wrench make it a superior tire changing tool over an impact air wrench?

1990AG said:

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I hunted for a few seasons with a SWAT officer who told me unequivocally that the pump is the way to go. For a few reasons, but mostly he said the mere sound of the pump action will make a person think hard before hanging around.

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There it is!

AgEng06 said:

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1990AG said:

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I hunted for a few seasons with a SWAT officer who told me unequivocally that the pump is the way to go. For a few reasons, but mostly he said the mere sound of the pump action will make a person think hard before hanging around.

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There it is!

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Took longer than expected

1990AG said:

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I hunted for a few seasons with a SWAT officer who told me unequivocally that the pump is the way to go. For a few reasons, but mostly he said the mere sound of the pump action will make a person think hard before hanging around.

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1990AG said:

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1990AG said:

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I hunted for a few seasons with a SWAT officer who told me unequivocally that the pump is the way to go. For a few reasons, but mostly he said the mere sound of the pump action will make a person think hard before hanging around.

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Appears to have been the wrong intel?

I wish I was an OB insider.....still stinging from the "Road" thread

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1. People without much experience will likely short stroke a pump under stress.
2. Racking a round before firing gives away your position. If the burglar is determined, he now knows your location and that you're armed and may arm himself or ready a weapon to find you.
3. Semi-autos typically have a problem with dove or bird loads, rarely with 00 Buck or slugs.

1990AG said:

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Appears to have been the wrong intel?

I wish I was an OB insider.....still stinging from the "Road" thread

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Do not feel bad. This is a thread for learning, not mocking.

The Wonderer nailed some of why its a bad idea, but the reason it got the response it did is that we have all heard that one before. It's one of those bad pieces of advice that has circulated around gun shops/forums for years. Not even SWAT officers are immune from hearing or giving bad advice.

And speaking of learning...given that the vast majority of people seem to understand the benefits of semi vs pump when it comes to speed of follow up shots and reliability under stress....

What if the 9+1 semi auto that weighed the exact same as the 5+1 pump gun looked like this?



Lower recoil, faster follow up shots, same weight, less dangerous over penetration of interior walls, shorter overall length....seems like some big advantages. (Gun pictured with a 10 round magazine, so yes it is 9+1).

Now, what if you could add a red dot to make accurate shooting really easy even in low light, double the capacity, and add a light for target identification without adding even 1 lb to the overall weight?



Would it then make sense to choose the semi with 20 rounds, a red dot, a light, that was only 13 oz heavier over the possibly unreliable pump action gun with a 5+1 capacity whose only advantage was less than a pound of weight savings and cost?

ad*****trapper said:

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It's a trap!

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I'm getting predictable in my old age.

Was this your ploy to show that AR is better suited for HD than the standard shotty?

ad*****trapper said:

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In all seriousness here, not trying to spark a debate although they are healthy, would it not be arguable that a .223 ( I am presuming the caliber) is excellent at penetrating through interior walls potentially harming innocents in other rooms?

The argument for the shotgun (not arguing platform) could be had if you were not using buckshot or slugs. Could a shotgun loaded with larger birdshot not arguably be better suited for ensuring shots are not entering the next rooms ( or two or three)?

I guess regardless of the "what if" scenario you are hoping to be 100% accurate and not have any misses that may over penetrate interior walls. If you hit your target over penetration is less of a concern with the rifle but what if you miss? I know this goes both ways for both gun platforms.

Curious as to why you believe the rifle will not over penetrate within your house if you think that the shot shells will . I take it we are talking home defense.

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The Wonderer said:

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Was this your ploy to show that AR is better suited for HD than the standard shotty?

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Mostly I wanted to start the premise of considering the benefits of operation (semi vs pump) and capacity (10 vs 6) and whether they were criteria worth considering between shotguns. I thought it might be easier for some to make the transition on considering those attributes between an AR and a shotgun if they started by considering only shotguns first.

It did help a lot that my LW build with a 10 rounder weighs the exact same as a 500 loaded with 00 buck.

He's saying it would be less lethal than the other options on that chart.

Because assumptions are dangerous. Assuming a rifle round will over penetrate more than a shotgun pellet is a very common assumption. Much like assuming a heavy basketball will fall at a faster rate than a lighter tennis ball, that assumption has been tested and disproven.

I'll link just one of many such tests here: http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html

The Spitzer construction of rifle bullets makes them more likely to tumble and lose velocity in barriers like drywall than round shotgun pellets or even pistol bullets. Lost velocity=less danger. Any round from any gun worth using can and will penetrate one or more drywall barriers. But shotgun pellets and pistol bullets retain both mass and velocity through drywall better than rifle bullets thanks to differences in their construction and will penetrate more walls at lethal velocities than rifle rounds.

If I was on one side of the house and knew someone was going to shoot a gun from the other side and i couldn't just get the hell out I'd want them shooting an AR at me over a shotgun or even a pistol.

Birdshot is for birds. Any shotgun ammunition worth using to stop a human sized threat will over penetrate more than a 5.56 round, period.