12 people (including two African Americans) saw a lot more evidence than the 2 minute Facebook live video that the rest of the country did. They determined that they couldn't prove beyond a reasonable doubt he was guilty, so I will defer to them. He isn't guilty.

Could things have been handled better? Probably, a life was lost. That's all I have, too much speculation and armchair quarterbacking by the country as it is so I'll stay out of that.

i think these juries are finding the rules of engagement that cops are operating under are too quick to assume the worst and take lethal action if there's even a hint of risk, making conviction in these cases impossible. officers are acting as they are trained - this is a training and doctrine problem. until its fixed and more 'risk' is balanced to preserving life this will continue and society will get more and more inflamed with each case.

specifically, based on what we now know after the fact from the physical evidence and the reputation of the driver (not a criminal but upstanding citizen, permit holder) this officer, if he felt under threat, seemingly could have drawn his weapon and held the driver at gunpoint and demanded his hands on the wheel prior to opening fire. but his training somehow led him to do otherwise and quickly take lethal action.

an article some time ago by an Army Iraq war veteran highlighted the problem in this age of law enforcement. a quote from the article, with link below:

Quote:

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Domestic police forces would benefit from a similar change in strategy. Instead of relying on aggression, they should rely more on relationships. Rather than responding to a squatter call with guns raised, they should knock on the door and extend a hand. But unfortunately, my encounter with officers is just one in a stream of recent examples of police placing their own safety ahead of those they're sworn to serve and protect.

Rhoads, the Fairfax County police lieutenant, was upfront about this mind-set. He explained that it was standard procedure to point guns at suspects in many cases to protect the lives of police officers. Their firearm rules were different from mine; they aimed not to kill but to intimidate. According to reporting by The Washington Post, those rules are established in police training, which often emphasizes a violent response over deescalation. Recruits spend an average of eight hours learning how to neutralize tense situations; they spend more than seven times as many hours at the weapons range.

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/in-iraq-i-raided-insurgents-in-virginia-the-police-raided-me/2015/07/24/2e114e54-2b02-11e5-bd33-395c05608059_story.html?utm_term=.b9a778a252cf

i think there's a lot of truth in the piece. police officers are among our most selfless citizens but the balance of life has tilted too far, and these shootings that are creating serious social divisions are one of the results. just my view.

I'll trust the 12 person jury verdict who had access to way more information/evidence than anyone regarding this case vs watching some video online.

Juries are fickle.

It's one thing to try and win a case in the court of public opinion and politics.

It's another thing to present evidence and testimony subject to courtroom admissibility rules and win a case.

If convictions could be obtained based on the amount of social media and special interest outrage you can generate, we'd all be in jail sooner than later.

"Domestic police forces would benefit from a similar change in strategy. Instead of relying on aggression, they should rely more on relationships."

That's the worst advice I've ever heard. But user name checks out - it's also the most California advice I ever heard.

My opinion, based off the limited view offered by the video, and without much research into the case is as follows:


Castile should have listened to the officer and not reached towards the console when he was told not to (even if his ID was in there and he was previously told to get his ID).

I think the officer drew his weapon appropriately when he felt a possible threat. However I believe he prematurely discharged his weapon, likely because he felt that a weapon was about to be drawn and adrenaline made him squeeze harder than he intended. Adrenaline is also likely why he fired as many times as he did.

Overall I do believe the officer was in the wrong in firing his weapon, however so was Castile for not obeying commands.

The big issue I have, after seeing the video, is that 4 minutes passed between the shots fired and Castile being pulled from the vehicle and given first aid/CPR. It was pretty obvious that he was neutralized almost instantly. I don't know if earlier aid could've saved him, but after the guy wasn't moving for over a minute it would've probably been safe to pull him and start giving aid. Of course the officer had to account for the girlfriend, but still, even when more officers arrived on scene, aid wasn't immediately rendered.

Not a comment on this case, but I've been a juror a few times and in general, (in my specific cases, at least) people are dumb as hell and get extremely hung up on the reasonable doubt. Had a robery case, footage of the guy (wearing a hoodie so couldn't see his face), he was arrested in the same hoodie with the money and gun on him. A couple jurors didn't want to charge him because they never saw his face in the videos so had reasonable doubt.

CactusThomas said:

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"Domestic police forces would benefit from a similar change in strategy. Instead of relying on aggression, they should rely more on relationships."

That's the worst advice I've ever heard. But user name checks out - it's also the most California advice I ever heard.

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it was not my advice, smart guy. it was a quote from an extended oped written by a veteran I happen to know, an oped i'd wager your brilliant arse didn't bother to even read.

hope you get pulled over sometime with your CCP by a hotheaded cop scared ****less and operating under shoot first rules of engagement, and don't manage to get yourself killed.

but you're right, I'm just another got dam'd calaforneye-yay liberal. like the forty percent of the state that is more conservative than most texans. grew up in rural texas, lived in california for a decade then moved to virginia and don't feel like changing my username. its great fun to see simpletons like you get spun up about it.

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i think there's a lot of truth in the piece. police officers are among our most selfless citizens but the balance of life has tilted too far, and these shootings that are creating serious social divisions are one of the results. just my view.

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Put your kid in that cop's shoes?

My son is a Houston cop and many of their arrests have an armed perpetrator. For their own safety the guns are out and unless you have lived this I feel you cannot judge his actions as "tilted too far"

The social division comes from the racial tension and black lives matter crap propagated by Obama and his cronies. America has seen the racial divide grow exponentially during those awful 8 years in Washington.

Black on black crime rates are insanely high.....

I'll stop here because there is no end to my rant.

I am sympathetic to African American folks in my church who are simply discouraged that these things just continue to happen at such a high frequency. They get the reasonable doubt but they're just tired of one story after the next.

Im not sure I really agree with Colin on this one. I don't think race has much to do with it. Had the robbery suspect been white and the officer pulled over a sketchy, trashy looking white guy I believe he would be just as much on edge and the outcomes would have been the same.

I still can't get over the poor little girl in the back seat though. Her presence alone should have dissuaded the cop from pulling the gun in the first place.

I have no comment on this specific case, but the "I feared for my life" excuse does not give one carte blanche. I feared for my life in combat countless times and managed to never go weapons free on anything that moved. As a society, we should give our law enforcement a ton of respect, and should also hold them accountable for their actions, even when they are scared. If they aren't up for that second part, they can quit anytime.

dubi said:

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Quote:

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i think there's a lot of truth in the piece. police officers are among our most selfless citizens but the balance of life has tilted too far, and these shootings that are creating serious social divisions are one of the results. just my view.

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Put your kid in that cop's shoes?

My son is a Houston cop and many of their arrests have an armed perpetrator. For their own safety the guns are out and unless you have lived this I feel you cannot judge his actions as "tilted too far"

The social division comes from the racial tension and black lives matter crap propagated by Obama and his cronies. America has seen the racial divide grown exponentially during those awful 8 years in Washington.

Black on black crime rates are insanely high.....

I'll stop here because there is no end to my rant.

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that's not the point. the role is 'to protect and to serve'. we justifiably respect police officers and see them as our most heroic citizens, next to our men and women in the military. heroic stature is granted based on the risk one places themselves at - the aggie who rushed to take an Iraqi child out of harm's way is a hero, because he was willing to risk all to protect the innocent.

when a cop freaks out and opens fire on a citizen who has not leveled a weapon, but "may have been reaching for a weapon', this is not in any way heroic. he has placed his personal safety above all else - which is no sacrifice at all. it is actually the opposite of heroism, it is cowardice.

i'd be ashamed of my son if he behaved that way, UNLESS his training taught him to react in such a manner. Which is the point of the article. our police are trained to defend their lives above all other considerations, which keeps them safe but puts the innocent at risk.

our democracy's justice system was founded on the following principal from English common law: 'better 100 guilty Persons should escape than that one innocent Person should suffer, is a Maxim that has been long and generally approved' - ben franklin. that was the ethos that created a free society. a culture where the life of a cop is more valuable than the life of an innocent citizen will not long be free. and that is where we are heading if training and doctrine is not reformed.

I'm not optimistic.

eric76 said:

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Ogre09 said:

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I obviously didn't hear and see all the evidence the jury did, but from what I have read and seen it seems to me like the officer was not justified in shooting him.

From what I can tell the incident happened like this. With no video from inside the car prior to the shooting, it's hard to tell what the driver was actually doing prior to being shot.

- officer sees the guy driving around, thinks he looks like a robbery suspect from a few days ago (doesn't really match the description of the robber or vehicle, other than being a black male)
- officer stops the guy for having a taillight out, fine reasonable cause
- during the stop, the driver mentions he has a firearm on him, driver has a license to carry
- the officer seems to panic at that point, tells the driver not to pull out his gun
- the driver says "I'm not reaching for it", he may have been reaching for his wallet
- officer shoots the driver
- driver says "I wasn't reaching for it" and dies
- driver's gun was still in his pocket the whole time
- driver had a bullet wound in his trigger finger, no corresponding wound in his leg where his gun was

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Castile was apparently at least somewhat high on marijuana at the time. He was surely reaching for his billfold, but it would be easy for the officer to be mistake the motions he was making with his hand as being an attempt to reach for the firearm instead of the billfold.

I'm not going to fault him for the shooting.

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The point I bolded makes me believe that the officer is at least being honest about the entire situation and legitimately thought the guy was going for his gun. His eyes were fixated on the dude's hand. That type of injury is EXTREMELY common in shootings. Bad guy brandishes a gun, good guys open fire - bad guy almost always ends up with GSW to the hands/arms, the gun itself gets hit a lot of times, etc. It's because as the officer in a situation like that, your eyes are drawn to the weapon right off the bat, so lots of shots end up there.

Defer to the jury. Sounds good. However............ I still think OJ was guilty and I think this cop got away with something between manslaughter and murder.

willie wonka said:

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I am sympathetic to African American folks in my church who are simply discouraged that these things just continue to happen at such a high frequency. They get the reasonable doubt but they're just tired of one story after the next.

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Tired of a lot of things.

Stop getting high and robbing stores and claiming, "hand up don't shoot".

Tired of race pimps like Sharpton and Jackson

Tired of blaming other people for "our" problems. It's not "our" problem, its your individual problem.

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'better that one innocent man go free than one hundred guilty be punished' - ben franklin.

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This doesn't make sense.

Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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'better that one innocent man go free than one hundred guilty be punished' - ben franklin.

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This doesn't make sense.

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Not all that difficult of a concept

96ags said:

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Martin Q. Blank said:

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Quote:

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'better that one innocent man go free than one hundred guilty be punished' - ben franklin.

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This doesn't make sense.

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Not all that difficult of a concept

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Well the quote is backwards, I did a double take at it too. The actual quote "is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer"

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I know it was written incorrectly, but for me it was fairly easy to deduce what quote he was attempting to reference.

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Martin just wrote that the quote made no sense. He was correct. Everyone on here can deduce what the quote was suppose to be. So why the weird face emoji in response to him?

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If he was just being obtuse, well then, I suppose the emoji applies in that situation as well.

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No, I think you're the one being obtuse. Martin just wrote that the quote, AS WRITTEN, made no sense. He was 100% correct.