Never said illiterate judges or those with political agendas (which they are not supposed to have) do not *******ize the 2A.

Where is freedom of speech not absolute?

redass1876 said:

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Never said illiterate judges or those with political agendas (which they are not supposed to have) do not *******ize the 2A.

Where is freedom of speech not absolute?

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Sadly, free speech is not absolute on most college campuses these days

It's amazing how groups who insist on tolerance are pretty intolerant of free speech.

(for clarification, i'm on the side of "this won't end badly")

There are plenty of people who conceal carry regardless of the law. It is what it is.

03_Aggie said:

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When did CC become a constitutional right?

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June 21, 1788

The U.S. Constitution was adopted and signed inSeptember 1787, but signing wasn't enough. It had to be ratified by nine of the 13 states before it became binding. That happened when New Hampshire ratified it on June 21, 1788.Jun 22, 2012
The Day the U.S. Constitution Was Ratified | IIP Digital
iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/inbrief/2012/06/201206217872.htm

You're welcome!

Prognightmare said:

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03_Aggie said:

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When did CC become a constitutional right?

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June 21, 1788

The U.S. Constitution was adopted and signed inSeptember 1787, but signing wasn't enough. It had to be ratified by nine of the 13 states before it became binding. That happened when New Hampshire ratified it on June 21, 1788.Jun 22, 2012
The Day the U.S. Constitution Was Ratified | IIP Digital
iipdigital.usembassy.gov/st/english/inbrief/2012/06/201206217872.htm

You're welcome!

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Except the Bill of Rights was not ratified until December 15, 1791.

Re your question on "Where is speech..." - the answer is plenty of places.

Not all public places are "public forums." One can't go into any space in any public building and speak freely without restriction. For example, I can't walk onto the floor of the House and give a speech not can I interrupt a court proceeding. Nor can I go inside a classroom and disrupt it by speaking without consequences.

Many places that are public, e.g. college campuses, schools, are "limited public forums" where reasonable restrictions may apply. Now many go to far and that is when the courts must be involved.

Freedom of speech has never been absolute, even the content can be restricted. We have restrictions on content that includes obscenity, libel, shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.

As for the OP, I am in disagreement.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Did anyone else think Negligent Discharge, not North Dakota?

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I live here and this is what I thought

Ducks4brkfast said:

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gumby579 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Did anyone else think Negligent Discharge, not North Dakota?

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I live here and this is what I thought

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Are you as scared about this as the the liberal chick that started the thread?

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Shaking in my boots. But seriously, I've been carrying since I have my Texas CHL but this goes into effect in August. There's still no open carry but ehh it's a small step. It was even more confusing since they have two different types of carry licenses in this state.

Ducks4brkfast said:

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gumby579 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Did anyone else think Negligent Discharge, not North Dakota?

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I live here and this is what I thought

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Are you as scared about this as the the liberal chick that started the thread?

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If you think i'm liberal, you dont know me at all.

Texas 1836 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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IslandAg76 said:

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Not to hijack but I never fully comprehended the thought process that allows an 18 year old to be treated as an adult under the law, vote, command a machine gun in battle, throw hand grenades, ..., BUT...after the 3 day battle you can't have a beer because we are protecting you and others.

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Probably because the drinking age was lowered in the 70s, 18-21 year olds couldn't handle it, so it went back to 21.

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Incorrect. It went back because the Fed forced states to raise the age.

Those states that refused were going to be denied highway funds that the Fed had previously stolen from the inhabitants of their states.. See State of Louisiana- one of the holdouts.

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And why did the feds threaten to withhold funds? Were they just a bunch of big meanies?

AgLA06 said:

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Is your argument seriously that the Feds do everything unpolitically, data driven, and with the constituents best interests in mind?

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My argument is that the Feds had data or believed that 18-21 year olds had a drinking and driving problem.

https://report.nih.gov/nihfactsheets/ViewFactSheet.aspx?csid=24

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Since the early 1980s, alcohol-related traffic deaths per population have been cut in half with the greatest proportional declines among persons 16-20 years old.

Today alcohol is involved in 37% of all traffic deaths among persons aged 16 to 20.

Numerous NIH-funded studies over the last three decades established the effectiveness of raising the minimum legal drinking age to 21 in reducing both drinking and alcohol-related crashes among persons under age 21. The U.S. Department of Transportation estimates that such laws, now in effect in all states, prevent 1,000 traffic deaths each year.

he number of alcohol-related traffic deaths among 16 to 20 year-olds in the U.S. decreased from 5,244 in 1982 to 1,987 in 2008 in large measure because of the legal drinking age of 21 and Zero Tolerance Laws.

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Quote:

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after the 3 day battle you can't have a beer because we are protecting you and others.

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It isn't THAT difficult to understand when you start factoring in things like teenagers hang out with other teenagers -- of legal (voting) age and otherwise -- and will share (or sell) what they're able to acquire. Also, behaving irresponsibly with alcohol is a bit easier and more of a temptation than doing so with firearms. Yes, it is true that a 22 year old could share with a 14 year old just as easily as an 18 year old could, but how many 22 year olds are still hanging out with high school kids? When I was 18, I hung out with HS kids; when I was 19 and later, I did not. Certainly not by the time I was 21. It happens, but it isn't common.

Incidentally, I was able to purchase alcohol at 19 and people several years older than I could do it at 18. They changed the law twice and haven't looked back.

If a true majority of people wanted 18-20 year olds to be able to purchase alcohol, it would be legal in Texas and other places. The fact is that the majority of people does NOT want that. Neither you nor I were more mature the day we turned (16 for driving; 18 to vote; 19/21 to drink) than we were the day before, yet we could do something on our birthday we couldn't have done even 1-25 hours earlier. Its called drawing a bright line and it has to be drawn somewhere.

Quote:

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We have restrictions on content that includes obscenity, libel, shouting "fire" in a crowded theater.

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Those are more time place and manner restrictions than they are content restrictions. Fire could be substituted for other words or phrases in your example here, meaning that the word, fire, itself isn't the focus of the restriction.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Texas 1836 said:

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CanyonAg77 said:

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IslandAg76 said:

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Not to hijack but I never fully comprehended the thought process that allows an 18 year old to be treated as an adult under the law, vote, command a machine gun in battle, throw hand grenades, ..., BUT...after the 3 day battle you can't have a beer because we are protecting you and others.

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Probably because the drinking age was lowered in the 70s, 18-21 year olds couldn't handle it, so it went back to 21.

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Incorrect. It went back because the Fed forced states to raise the age.

Those states that refused were going to be denied highway funds that the Fed had previously stolen from the inhabitants of their states.. See State of Louisiana- one of the holdouts.

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And why did the feds threaten to withhold funds? Were they just a bunch of big meanies?

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Honestly - mostly because MADD developed a really good lobby and made a state issue into a federal issue.

I take it you haven't spent much time in North Dakota. If so, you would know what kind of people you are talking about. Some great, salt of the earth people up there. I have some great friends up there, and, if they knew when to end winter, I wouldn't mind living up there.

DatTallArchitect said:

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I take it you haven't spent much time in North Dakota. If so, you would know what kind of people you are talking about. Some great, salt of the earth people up there. I have some great friends up there, and, if they knew when to end winter, I wouldn't mind living up there.

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CanyonAg77 said:

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Don't know how accurate this is, but note that in NH and AK, concealed carry is allowed at age 16.

Also note that Maryland has an offical age of 18 for CC, but in reality, almost no one gets a CC permit. And those that are issued are usually work related. If you get a permit because your job is handling money, you have to store the pistol when you get off work.




http://dustinsgunblog.blogspot.com/2009/10/map-of-minimum-age-to-conceal-carry.html

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I suspect that there are some variations in some states that aren't captured on that map because it would make it really complex. If you travel, READ UP on the laws in the state you are traveling to. For instance in Idaho:

There are literally three types of CC:

-Constitutional Carry: Anyone 18 or older both resident or non resident can Constitutional Carry (no permit required) OUTSIDE of city limits. To Constitutional Carry carry INSIDE a city limit you must be both an Idaho resident and over 21.

-Basic CCW permit: Must be over 21 and can carry CCW anywhere not prohibited (schools, courthouses, etc.) Both residents and non residents can get a permit.

-Enhanced CCW permit: Must be 21 or over, take more extensive training and mental health record check. This permit does two things. 1) Opens up more states with reciprocity including WA, NV. and a few others. 2) Allows one to campus carry. Both residents and non residents can get an Enhanced CCW permit.
One wrinkle in this law is that if you are 18-20 you can meet the requirements for the Enhanced CCW permit and they will issue you a basic carry permit. When you turn 21 you come back and they issue you the enhanced permit.

The tl/dr version: Make sure you are aware of the laws in the state you travel to. I am sure Idaho is not the only state that has some interesting variations in how and when you can CC.

Quote:

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The tl/dr version: Make sure you are aware of the laws in the state you travel to. I am sure Idaho is not the only state that has some interesting variations in how and when you can CC.

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True. As I said, Maryland looks lenient on the map, but in practice, they are one of the worst.

CanyonAg77 said:

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Quote:

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The tl/dr version: Make sure you are aware of the laws in the state you travel to. I am sure Idaho is not the only state that has some interesting variations in how and when you can CC.

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True. As I said, Maryland looks lenient on the map, but in practice, they are one of the worst.

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Oh absolutely. The map is a good starting point. But to your point, Maryland looks pretty lenient on that map (18 and older) but in fact is anything but lenient. Idaho looks stricter than Maryland, but is actually quite lenient in CC laws.

DatTallArchitect said:

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I take it you haven't spent much time in North Dakota. If so, you would know what kind of people you are talking about. Some great, salt of the earth people up there. I have some great friends up there, and, if they knew when to end winter, I wouldn't mind living up there.

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Did you miss the part where I live on the mt/nd border?

Have you spent a significant amount of time in Williston? Or even Bismarck for that matter? Williston will becone the wild west

Bismarck, yes. Williston, no. Bismarck is very tame. I know West river is worse than East river, but have yet to see anything as bad as parts of Kansas City or St Louis, and Missouri has been constitutional carry for a while.

BenderRodriguez said:

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histag10 said:

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Williston will becone the wild west

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As a fellow History major, your lack of historical context and understanding about both the effects of constitutional carry on other states who have passed it and the reality of the American West vs the Hollywood version you believe saddens me.

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It's just liberal propaganda, folks.

Don't feed the troll.