We are going to a highly rated training class with our 7 month old Terrier puppy. Our trainer is ( like most we talked to) 1000% positive reinforcement ONLY method. She claims that EVERY behavior can be worked via positive method ONLY, no use of ANY bop on the nose, harsh words, absolutely no buzz or ( horrors) shock collars.......strictly clicker and rewards....
We have seen great results with the reward ( food) and clicker for some basic commands and behaviors YET...our Terrier has an uncanny ability to know when we are " disarmed" or have no rewards. She knows 100% when we have a treat in our pockets, in the training pouch or even on the counter top. IF we try damn near anything other than the basic SIT, DOWN or sometimes STAY without a treat she just ignores us. The trainer say ALL can be worked via positive etc yet it would appear that it will take a bit more to get past the need for rewards.

We have friends who have Terriers and EVERY single one of them says that it will take the " old discredited" style of discipline to get a Terrier under control . NOT abuse but they ALL recommend a shock collar that they also say is hardly ever used. They ALL say that the bop on the nose and a stern NO is mandatory no matter what the trainers say. My guys say the collar set at BUZZ only is the most you will need , after a couple of low setting shocks to get their attention. They tell me that it only takes a few weeks of BUZZZ collar and then they sit on the shelf for years only occasionally needed as reminders as the dog ages.

What say this august board. We are totally new to dog stuff and need advice. Is the 100% positive reinforcement only the same as the NEVER spank a kid culture ?

Just my two cents.

I don't know what kind of terrier you have but I'll just relate my experiences. Terriers and extremely smart and, at least some breeds, extremely hard headed. I have raised mostly Cairns and Westies. Westies are more level headed, but every Cairn I have owned mirrored my relationship with my wife. In other words, the dog would do whatever I told it to as long as he/she wanted to do it also.

I would agree that some form of negative reinforcement is going to be needed when dealing with terriers.

Loyal, affectionate, protective and stubborn. All those describe my terriers. And would never want any other dog to own.

Sounds like you got hooked into the Dr. Spock hipster dog trainers?

Is this a Jack Russell?

Terriers are smarter than owners and trainers

You will need both positive and negative reinforcement.

Dogs are pack animals. There are no equals in their world. You either rank above or below them.

I never strike a dog on the nose or face. This creates hand shy dogs.

A corrective swat on the butt works.

Solid basic obedience training will let puppie know that his rank is below you.

malenurse said:

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Just my two cents.

I don't know what kind of terrier you have but I'll just relate my experiences. Terriers and extremely smart and, at least some breeds, extremely hard headed. I have raised mostly Cairns and Westies. Westies are more level headed, but every Cairn I have owned mirrored my relationship with my wife. In other words, the dog would do whatever I told it to as long as he/she wanted to do it also.

I would agree that some form of negative reinforcement is going to be needed when dealing with terriers.

Loyal, affectionate, protective and stubborn. All those describe my terriers. And would never want any other dog to own.

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thanks. She is a pure bred coal black Scots Terrier. THE most terrier ( terrorist) of the Terrier breed !
this is our first dog ( wife had family dogs 50 yrs ago but Ive never had one)..when we tell dog folks that we have our first dog they smile and gush UNTIL we then tell them its a Terrier ! The looks are great usually followed by a WHY ?
It is a very smart dog and fun to be with WHEN she is in her right mood. It is amazing what she can eat and destroy !! Hard headed and ,yes kinda wife like, and she really loves people. Still having some accidents as she is not quite house broken, our vet says it could take a year to get her fully broke !!!! grrrrr

The other issue is some people don't know when enough is enough and the training session becomes a beating the dog session, instead of two or three corrections then stopping if the dog isn't "in it" that day.

The army trained dogs for wars for a long time, the were trained with whips and nice choke-chains and slip-noose leads held high on the neck just behind the ears and under the chin; which when small amounts of pressure are applied make a big change in dogs attitude.

Dogs that are shown in professional kennel club showcases at minimum know those leashes, it's how you train a dog to sit when you stop walking; sitting raises the neck and stopped the pressure.

Agree. My uncle is a pro and says he spends as much time training the owner as the dog.

OnlyForNow said:

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The other issue is some people don't know when enough is enough and the training session becomes a beating the dog session, instead of two or three corrections then stopping if the dog isn't "in it" that day.

The army trained dogs for wars for a long time, the were trained with whips and nice choke-chains and slip-noose leads held high on the neck just behind the ears and under the chin; which when small amounts of pressure are applied make a big change in dogs attitude.

Dogs that are shown in professional kennel club showcases at minimum know those leashes, it's how you train a dog to sit when you stop walking; sitting raises the neck and stopped the pressure.

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I think that this is another failure of the positive ONLY method. Training can only be for short periods and when the dog is receptive. It only natural that during just play or just dog being dog time ..that the animal will F-UP be it eat a pillow, dig up gawd know whats, run wild, try to play Steve McQueen and escape ...on and on.. the positive only trainer says do NOT even yell firmly NO but try to use positive stuff to deflect the activity.....
That dont work ! I appreciate the " positive reinforcement " y'all are giving to the small buzz/shock collar the wife just ordered.....

Dogs are pack animals.