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Pistol shooting thread (Drills, Techniques, Discussion)

23,090 Views | 152 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by TwoMarksHand
BenderRodriguez
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AG
I asked if there would be any interest in a "getting better at pistol shooting" thread in the AR thread, and got enough of a positive response to decide one was worthwhile. Just as a heads up, this is going to be TL;DR for anyone who isn't interested in becoming a better pistol shooter, so if it holds no interest for you, feel free to check out.

Basically, what I'll be doing in this thread is periodically (probably monthly) be posting a new drill for people to try, and post their results. These drills will be designed to test your skills as a pistol shooter, reveal flaws in your technique, and help you become a better shooter.

I'd like to start by laying out two basic premises we should all be working from here for this thread, the most important being:

1) I am not an end all, be all expert. Nothing I say is gospel. I love shooting pistols, I enjoy competition, I truly love teaching beginners. I am not a Spec Ops guy, a SWAT officer, a national pistol shooting champion, nor do I run any famous well known shooting school. I'm a guy who is trying to get better at pistol shooting as I go, who enjoys teaching others some of the things I've learned along the way.

In that same vein, I'd tell you to be very, very wary of anyone who claims to be the authority on how to do things. There are skills and techniques that a SWAT guy would be very familiar with/find useful that isn't going to do much for a guy trying to shoot USPSA/IDPA. And competition skills are not necessarily going to translate perfectly over to good defensive skills with a pistol for concealed carry. So on, and so forth. But regardless of how you're going to use the pistol and what your end goal is (competition, self defense, etc), the one thing all pistol disciplines require is a firm grasp of the fundamentals of pistol marksmanship, and an honest assessment by the shooter of their own skills and deficiencies. This thread is aimed not at any specific discipline or use of pistols, but will focus primarily on drills/evaluations we can do as shooters trying to improve on our basic skill set. If people want to discuss other things, that's fine...but I'm going to try to keep my focus mostly on drills/skills to improve the fundamentals of marksmanship. The reason for this is basic premise number 2:

2) 90% of pistol shooters think they are in the top 10%. I'm not excepting myself from this, because I was guilty of it in the past. For the first few years I spent pistol shooting, I did so strictly on a square range, shooting bullseye style on paper targets. This is by no means a bad thing to do, but until you've pushed yourself and tested your shooting skills in other ways, this gives an incredibly false sense of skill. The first time I shot a USPSA competition, I realized just how inadequate my previous shooting had been. The first drill I'm going to share/recommend in the thread in the next post should help people establish a more honest assessment of their most fundamental skills: Sight alignment and trigger control.

If you're ready to take an honest look at your own pistol shooting skills, and want to improve your shooting, this is the thread for you. I doubt my drill scores/results will be the best submitted in this thread. I truly hope they are not, because as I said in the beginning: I am not finished with my own quest to improve myself as a pistol shooter, and hope others are interested in joining me on that quest. Do not be embarrassed to post disappointing results, because the only way we improve is honest assessment of what we do wrong and how we can improve. I will post some ugly results along the way, I am sure. Don't be afraid to do the same. I highly doubt any of us are perfect shooters, and we can all improve...myself included.

That being said, I'm going to end this already way too long post, and share the first drill below.



BenderRodriguez
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First Drill is one of my favorites: Dot Torture.

There are several reasons I love this drill. It only takes 50 rounds, so can be done without burning through too much time or ammo, both of which most of us find ourselves lacking enough of already. It also addresses a lot of fundamental skills you should have as a pistol shooter, primarily sight alignment and trigger control, while also allowing you to work on your draw, reloads, target acquisition, etc.

Here it is:



Printable PDF here, from pistol-training.com

This prints off on an 8 x 11 standard sheet of paper, which gives you 10 2" dots to shoot.

Start at 3 yards. I know that sounds incredibly short distance, but try it and see what happens. A Passing score is 50/50. If you can hit 50/50 at 3 yards, increase distance until you can't. There is no time limit.

The description is on the target itself, but I'll add it here:


  • Dot 1 Draw and fire one string of 5 rounds for best group. One hole if possible, total 5 rounds.
  • Dot 2 Draw and fire 1 shot, holster and repeat X4, total 5 rounds.
  • Dots 3 & 4 Draw and fire 1 shot on #3, then 1 shot on #4, holster and repeat X3, total 8 rounds.
  • Dot 5 Draw and fire string of 5 rounds, strong hand only, total 5 rounds.
  • Dots 6 & 7 Draw and fire 2 shots on #6, then 2 on #7, holster, repeat X4, total 16 rounds.
  • Dot 8 From ready or retention, fire five shots, weak hand only, total 5 rounds.
  • Dots 9 & 10 Draw and fire 1 shot on #9, speed reload, fire 1 shot on #10, holster and repeat X3, total 6 rounds.

There is also a specific Dot Torture designed for DA/SA guns. PDF for DA/SA Dot Torture

It has a slightly different description, but since it's on the target I'm not going to repost it here.

I'll be shooting this drill tomorrow, and will post my results. I'm also going to borrow the pistol-training.com disclaimer: Training with firearms is an inherently dangerous activity. Be sure to follow all safety protocols when using firearms or practicing these drills. These drills are provided for information purposes only. Use at your own risk.

I'm thinking this will be the Drill to shoot for this thread for the Month of July, and I'll add a new one in August if the thread goes well.

ETA: If you want to shoot this drill but do not have a holster or a range which allows shooting from the draw, start in a low ready position instead. But if you can, find a place to shoot from the draw, it's an important skill to work on and something you should be doing if at all possible.




cuz-i-can
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Pistol shooting can be quite humbling especially if you take yourself away from static shooting. Just like any fine motor skill it is perishable if not practiced regularly. Good idea and look forward to following this thread.
TwoMarksHand
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Holy cow bender, I was debated whether to start a pistol shooting drills thread earlier today.

I think I'm about to start getting into IDPA and USPSA competitions. There is a range within 20 miles of me that has a very nice set up.
G. hirsutum Ag
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I'm in for this. Awesomeness. I qualified for my LTC on Saturday and it reinvigorated me for wanting to shoot more. I was very happy with my results but I noticed I kept pulling down and left, I know that tends to be a fingering thing. I want to work on it more. Thanks for this.
TwoMarksHand
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Also check out refactor tactical training. They have similar setup as dot torture, but use colored shapes with numbers as a target. Downside is they are not printable. But, the drills they post on their Instagram are pretty good and challenging.

I can't wait to get out there and see how I do. I'm planning a range trip this weekend and I will post my results.
Greeze06
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Nice idea.
Credible Source
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This is going to be awesome! I'm in.
RockinU
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There are a lot of printable drill targets on pistol-forum.com, if you need more going forward (you prolly already know that). I look forward to this thread developing, should be a lot of fun.
Puryear Playboy
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This should be interesting.
Long Live Sully
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RFD
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In
gibberish
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Yea, I used to think I was good. I shoot in an outlaw match local to me and always came in around the top third.
Then I shot a USPSA match, holy kick in the nuts; was lucky to finish 10 from the bottom and not dead last.

Some good sources of info for the podcast listeners:

Practical Pistol Show - Run by some GMs (Ben Stoeger and others) no one cares about and has a cool web store out of Austin.

That Shooting show - Steve Anderson listens to a lot of Van Halen and talks shooting guns

Triangle Tactical - Lucas Apps and Ben Berry(until recently) older episodes chronicle their journey from B class to A and M class.



And those damn dots are aptly named.
CharlieBrown17
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mostly tagging to watch
suprafly03
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Allen76
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Thanks for the Dot Torture exercize. I want to encourage you to keep this going for the month like you planned.

Since I am virtually a beginner with handguns, maybe this will help me get motivated to get out and do it. If others on this thread are doing Dot Torture in July, it will definitely help motivate me.

Note to self.... buy more ammo and a holster.
maverick2076
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Two books I have read and learned from: Surgical Speed Shooting by Andy Stanford and Combat Focused Shooting by Rob Pincus. Good books, different techniques with different applications, but there are some great things to learn in both.
agingcowboy
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I have been around guns all of my life, but have never practiced consistently with any of my pistols enough for me to believe I am a very good shot.

Seeing this thread I thought I would put some time in and hopefully be able to improve my skill with my pistol. The one I shoot this most is my Glock 23 which I'll be using for these exercises as they come up. I recently picked up an Alien Gear holster but this morning was my first time wearing it and practicing with it.

Reading about the dot torture I thought it would be challenging, but I must admit that I scoffed at the 3 yard initial distance thinking I could easily complete this. I stopped on my way to work this morning. I followed the instructions on the sheet rather than Bender's written instructions because I forgot to print those. Here's the results of my first effort.





Imagine my surprise when my very first shot hit high and right...outside the circle.

I feel like I must be pulling down on the trigger the way several of the shots stack in a line. My follow through is poor as well I believe as I find myself peeking my head up over the muzzle to try to see my hits.

I have never shot with my weak hand before, I was surprised that I was able to do so, but it was horribly slow to get things lined up and pull the trigger with that hand. I assume you should use your "weak" side eye when shooting with you "weak" side hand...?

On 8 and 9 I was actually able to put a couple through the same bullet hole.

On 9 and 10 I hit OK, but there's wasn't anything resembling "speed" going on during my speed reload. This is another area I need to practice.

Overall, I was a bit humbled by my performance and I get why its called torture. But at least its a starting point in trying to improve my skills. I printed 2 of these so hopefully I'll be able to try again on my way home from work today.

Edit to say: reading is hard, I shot one too many at 3 & 4. Also when scoring these, do line breaks count?
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kill0509
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May have to try some of these drills out! Thanks Bender!
ATL Aggie
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Great idea!
digital_ag
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Awesome thread OP. Props to agingcowboy for breaking the ice. I'll definitely be following this one.
Hoss
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I'm totally gonna rock this thread. [/top 10% shooter]

Kidding aside, this is a great idea. As much as I hate indoor ranges, I may have to print this out and hit up the Red's down the street from my jobsite during lunch one day. I would consider myself an above average shooter, but with "average" not being very good that's not really saying much. I still need lots of practice and training.

Actually, I just remembered that You won't be able to do this drill at Red's or most other ranges since most won't let you draw and fire from a holster. That's going to make it hard for a lot of people to do the shooting drills. I'll have to try and sneak out to Best of the West one day.
96AustinAg
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quote:


I have never shot with my weak hand before, I was surprised that I was able to do so, but it was horribly slow to get things lined up and pull the trigger with that hand. I assume you should use your "weak" side eye when shooting with you "weak" side hand...?

No, you should not - use your dominant eye (assuming from your post you are strong side eye dominant). Typically, most people will cant the gun slightly so that the sights align in front of your dominant eye. You can also try just physically moving the gun in front further over in front of your dominant eye when shooting with your weak hand.

Hardest thing I see for students to deal with in classes when shooting weak hand is the lack of coordination/dexterity with the weak side hand, particularly the trigger finger. A whole lot of really bad yanking occurs until you put in the practice to get through that.

We could start a whole separate argument on whether that weak handed shooting practice time would be better spent refining and speeding up your drawstroke and presentation, shooting better strong/two handed, or other skills you are much more likely to need until you have built up adequate skill in those areas :-)
96AustinAg
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BenderRodriguez
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I'm glad yall are interested in something like this. I'm going to address a few posts first, and then I'm going to upload my targets. Shot the drill this morning.

quote:
The best way to improve is in-person instruction. I have a range halfway between Bryan and Austin and I run classes from beginner to advanced with different courses almost every week.

Karl, I'm glad to see you chime in. Taking a class with you is on my to do list. Folks, if I say one thing and Karl says something else....listen to Karl. Heard nothing but great things about him, his range, and his ability as an instructor.

quote:
Since I am virtually a beginner with handguns, maybe this will help me get motivated to get out and do it. If others on this thread are doing Dot Torture in July, it will definitely help motivate me.

As a newbie, do not get discouraged if you struggle mightily with this drill. I can't remember what I scored first time I shot it, but I'm pretty sure it was in the low 30s, and that was with a .22 at 3 yards. Pistol shooting is a skill that takes a lot of practice to master. I'm glad you're interested and participating!

quote:
Overall, I was a bit humbled by my performance and I get why its called torture. But at least its a starting point in trying to improve my skills. I printed 2 of these so hopefully I'll be able to try again on my way home from work today.

Edit to say: reading is hard, I shot one too many at 3 & 4. Also when scoring these, do line breaks count?

Cowboy, thanks for stepping up and being the first to post a target. I specifically chose this drill because it has that tendency of humbling folks who think they're good shots. First time I shot it I was very put in my place. And yes, treat it like competition. If it breaks the line, it counts.

quote:
You won't be able to do this drill at Red's or most other ranges since most won't let you draw and fire from a holster. That's going to make it hard for a lot of people to do the shooting drills.

Hoss, I should have mentioned this in the drill post. I'll edit it in in a second. If you don't have a holster or access to a range where you can draw as the drill requires, start from a low ready instead. That's what I do with my .22 when I shoot this. Preferably, find a place where you can practice your draw as well. Beauty of this drill is how many fundamental skills it makes you work on all in only 50 rounds.

Back in a second with my results from this morning.




BenderRodriguez
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Shot Dot Torture this morning. Should have shot it about 3 hours earlier this morning. I had planned to shoot it three times in a row: with the .22 I'm going to use for Steel Challenge this week, with my new 9mm 1911, and with the CZ I have been shooting/competing with the most. It was so darn humid/unpleasant that I quit after shooting the .22 and the 1911.

Feels like 103 is not a fun time to go shooting...but I did it anyway..for a while at least.



So, went to my local gun club, set up the target, measured out my distance and marked with with a board. Here is what 3 yards looks like: deceptively close.



Started with my Ruger 22/45. As mentioned in the last post, if you don't have a holster, you can start from low ready. I love my 22/45, it is an accurate little bugger with a nice trigger. Good warm up, 50/50 at 3 yards. I'll be stretching this one out further next week for sure.



Then I shot my latest purchase, a Dan Wesson Guardian (1911 in 9mm). It is a very nice gun, and one I am still getting used to/breaking in. 215 rounds total through it before this morning....265 now.



As you can see, this didn't go quite as well. It was going great right until #6&7 (Draw, shoot twice on six, twice on seven, repeat four times). The very first string, I drew, hammered the first shot dead center of six...and got cocky and rushed my second shot, sending it low. To both myself any anyone else trying this: Dot Torture is an accuracy drill, not a speed shooting drill. Doh. I also managed to miss just barely with one shot on weak hand only at #8, leaving me with a score of 48/50 with the 1911. Better luck next time, can't move it back just yet. Looks like I'll be shooting at 3 yards again next time with this gun.

I love this drill so much. Targets are small enough that it really forces you to concentrate hard on your sight alignment, your trigger control, etc. 50 rounds isn't much of a budget or time buster, so it is something you can do several times.

A follow up challenge for those who shot this drill already: Measure out 3 yards in your house/garage somewhere. Make sure any and all ammunition is stored safely in another room. Make sure there is nothing behind the wall you tape your target to that you don't want destroyed. Triple check your gun is empty before firing. Then tape up a Dot Torture target, and run through a dry fire practice of this drill once a day for a a week or so before you go shoot this drill again. I'm willing to bet the results of doing so will surprise/impress you.



karlrehn
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Another couple of drills to work on:

We use a 20 round drill we designed, called the "Three Seconds or Less" drill, in our Defensive Pistol classes. It tests the skills most likely to be needed in a defensive incident. Each string has a 3 second par time. Should be shot with your carry gun, carried the way you carry in public.
http://www.krtraining.com/IPSC/Information/ThreeSecondsOrLess.htm

The F.A.S.T. drill is another good, simple drill to do. Shooting the drill in under 10 seconds, starting from concealment, is a good baseline standard of competence with a defensive pistol. (The 10 seconds is not just your raw time, that's total time including time penalties for bad shots.)
http://pistol-training.com/fastest

The 3M test (aka the Farnam drill) is a good drill for working ability to draw, move, reload and clear malfunctions.
https://blog.hsoi.com/2013/06/06/the-farnam-drill/

One drill the Hardwired Tactical guys use as a baseline measure is a drill called "The Test" from Larry Vickers.
NRA B-8 bullseye target. Draw and fire 10 shots, at 10 yards. All hits must go in the black of the B-8 to pass.

The other drill that's a classic is the "Bill Drill" which is draw and fire 6 shots to the A-zone of an IPSC or IDPA target. (Use an 8.5 x 11 sheet of paper folded to be 8.5x5.5 as an alternative). Run it at 3, 7, 10, 15, and 25 yards. Generally the total drill time should be roughly 2x the speed it takes you to draw and fire the first shot. The shots should sound like 6 evenly spaced beats, and the 'tempo' of shooting should be faster up close, and slower for the longer distance runs. The Bill Drill exposes problems with consistency in grip and trigger control. If you relax your grip after every shot, or have to adjust your grip after each shot, you won't be able to shoot any kind of reasonable speed on the drill. And if your shot to shot times are the same at 3, 10 and 25 yards, that probably means you are too slow at 3 and too fast at 25.

***disclaimer: if you haven't had formal training in how to draw safely and properly, and/or you are using a loose fitting nylon or leather "gun bucket" type holster, or a SERPA holster, any holster that does not cover the trigger guard of your pistol, or any holster not specifically made for the model gun you are using, practicing high speed draws is NOT recommended, due to the risk of self-inflicted gunshot wound in your hip or leg (from getting on the trigger too early as the gun leaves the holster) or support hand (from failure to get the support hand on the gun at the appropriate time and place within the draw stroke). Drawing is a skill that should be mastered in dry fire, working on technique with no timer, and then with reasonable par times, before live fire drawing should be done.

Those untrained in drawing should run all the drills I've listed starting from some type of safe ready position and not the holster. Those carrying in public that have never had formal training in safe, correct draw technique should seriously consider seeking out that training.

Karl

tx4guns
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One of my favorite drills to humble range shooters is to leave a loaded pistol on safe on the shooting bench or in your holster. Walk 50-100 yards or so away from the target and sprint as fast as you can to it, draw, and empty the mag. You will notice your hands shaking, your vision is cloudy/jittery, and your breathing is pretty much jacked up. Basically what you'd feel in an adrenaline pump in a true self defense scenario. Practice it enough times, and your groups will improve. I haven't run it in quite a while, and I need to polish up.
96AustinAg
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I'd also consider taking some sort of force on force or scenario-based training, as well as seriously getting into competitive shooting, to help mitigate some of those physical responses and be able to run your gun and make decisions under stress so you aren't trying to function under a full body alarm/panic reaction.

At KR we are offering our AT-5 Tactics Laboratory course again this October.
DV04
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runningbombtech
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The weak hand is a great equalizer.
Shilo
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quote:
quote:


I have never shot with my weak hand before, I was surprised that I was able to do so, but it was horribly slow to get things lined up and pull the trigger with that hand. I assume you should use your "weak" side eye when shooting with you "weak" side hand...?

No, you should not - use your dominant eye (assuming from your post you are strong side eye dominant). Typically, most people will cant the gun slightly so that the sights align in front of your dominant eye. You can also try just physically moving the gun in front further over in front of your dominant eye when shooting with your weak hand.

Hardest thing I see for students to deal with in classes when shooting weak hand is the lack of coordination/dexterity with the weak side hand, particularly the trigger finger. A whole lot of really bad yanking occurs until you put in the practice to get through that.

We could start a whole separate argument on whether that weak handed shooting practice time would be better spent refining and speeding up your drawstroke and presentation, shooting better strong/two handed, or other skills you are much more likely to need until you have built up adequate skill in those areas :-)


Like gangster style?
96AustinAg
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Sometimes refered to as one quarter homie
Eliminatus
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Good stuff! I am relatively late in life getting into handguns but now find them actually more enjoyable then long guns. Which is what I grew up shooting.

I don't have much to add except my philosophy of crawl, walk, run.

In my head I have broken down pistol marksmanship into three categories. Accuracy, going from non-ready to ready, and movement. These are my general categories and of course can be broken down much further. For fun and skill maintenance I'll focus on one at a time, then step to two at once and then if I am seriously trying to improve myself (and have the facilities available) I'll combine all three simultaneously.

The first and biggest of course is accuracy. Stuff like the DOT torture is awesome for this. But it includes advanced shooting drills and everything on down to basic fundamentals.

Non-ready to ready is exactly that. I'll spend time on just going from various non ready stances such as hands in pockets, sitting down, facing another directions, etc to a ready position in a smooth and easy transition to the ready stance. I focus on this a bit more since I CC and going from conceal to drawn is a big thing for me. When I first started to CC I shocked myself at how difficult it can be to draw smoothly. That first night I got my CHL I spent probably 6 hours alone just going through the motions in different clothes and guns and style of carrying. (I go from hip to pocket carry depending on situation.) Was not as easy as I first thought it was going to be.

And movement. Being able to move while actively engaging in an accurate and efficient manner. This is where your high dollar professional classes really come to the fore. Wish I could afford them but alas I just stick to past gubment training and common sense. Definitely not trying to be a Tier One operator or anything.

So that is how I break it down for myself and I will concentrate on any area I feel like I need improvement on and then recombine it with the others.

The one thing I had always heard and can now absolutely testify to over a decade of shooting handguns is that it IS a perishable skill.
trip
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Love this. I will post my results when I get some time to shoot
 
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