Looking for suggestions for a long distance rifle.

Caveats:

1. I dislike recoil. Most of my rifles are AR's for that reason.
2. Complete rifle + scope under $1K.
3. I will shoot this rifle less than 2-3 x per year.
4. I'm not very picky about brands. Just something reliable. Mossbergs work great for me.

First of many questions you'll be asked: "Define long distance."

Second: "For what application?"

http://texianfirearms.com/catalog_detail.php?product_id=207001

+

http://www.vortexoptics.com/product/vortex-diamondback-hp-4-16x42-riflescope-with-v-plex-moa-reticle

Set you back right at $900 plus shipping.

6.5 creedmoor is not a heavy hitter in regards to recoil. It has slowly become one of my most recommended cartridges

Depending on what you call long distance a Remington 700p (.308) with a decent scope is hard to beat for out of the box accuracy.

It doesn't come close to my TacOps Xray 51 setup but at 1/10th the cost it will do anything you need it to out to 600 yards.

Least recoil would be an AR in .308, but I doubt you could get one of those and a half decent optic for $1k

Long distance = 500 yards.

For target shooting.

quote:

---

Depending on what you call long distance a Remington 700p (.308) with a decent scope is hard to beat for out of the box accuracy.

---

Agree with this. Get you a decent scope like a vortex or Nikon, and rings spending about 400-500. then see which 700 you can afford. Might be enough to get something slightly upgraded over a base model.

For that price range Id suggest banking the money each for 3 or 4 years and THEN buy a rifle.

How much would I be talking about spending?

Honestly the ruger precision rifle is awesome. I had a 1/4moa to 3/4 grouping for 3shot at 100. Hard to get rifle.right now but the rifle is around 1400msrp and then I threw another 900 worth of glass on top.

Its 6.5 CM hardly any recoil and is a laser. Pros have been hitting out to 1500 with it.

I'm looking at a Savage 10P and working through what glass I want working with a similar budget.

Take a hard look at Savage. $1k including glass is tough though. AT 500m you will want good glass and it is worth the expense. If you find a rifle, let me know before you buy a scope. I have a Sightron Siii 8-32x56 that I will be selling. It has won and placed in a few of my local 500 m matches.

Caliber is up to you but if you don't reload, I recommend a.308. The 6.5 Creedmore is the real deal and a quality round at this distance.

Good luck! You will soon be addicted.

Remington 700 .308 sps tactical or savage 10p, swfa super sniper 6x or 10x scope, badger rings and a good ching or GI sling. Learn to read wind. Fgmm or 175gr will do well. Maybe work up a good handload. This setup will keep you below or around 1k.

I'm a gas gun guy but this would be my preferred setup. With the proper implementation of the fundamentals I bet I could shoot better than most with it.

If it is not a hunting gun, the longer the barrell the better. My target rifle has a 30 inch barrell.

Barrel harmonics - not length are what are important!

quote:

---

Long distance = 500 yards.

For target shooting.

---

First rec was more geared towards hunting... for target shooting, I think the cheapest without skimping too much would be one of these:

http://texianfirearms.com/product.savage-10fcp-sr-308win-24-thrd-bbl-law-enforcement

Savage FCP-SR... 24" fluted HBAR with reinforced stock. $650

Add in base/good rings: $100

Vortex Viper Mildot 6.5-20 - $385

A bit above your budget but probably one of the easiest ways to get a decent long distance rig. Easily will be able to sell the scope later for $350ish when you are ready to upgrade to better glass (though this one isn't anything to sneeze at) and that gun is pretty sought after. I've had a few in store and sold two to the staff at American Shooting Center.

If you are only shooting to 500 yards, then just get a 5.56. No recoil, cheap to shoot, easily within your budget, and you can use the ammo you already have.

Since you already have ARs, get a bolt gun. Either a Savage or a Rem 700 with a heavy barrel will shoot better than you can in all likelihood. Good 77 or 75 grain match ammo is easily capable of sub MOA performance well past 500 yards.

Another benefit is that it WILL be a bit more sensitive to crosswind at 500 than a .308, so you can challenge yourself and your shooting abilities a bit more by having to make proper wind calls...with a .308, 6.5, etc, 500 yards is nearly point blank range for hold over and wind.

quote:

---

quote:

---

Long distance = 500 yards.

For target shooting.

---

First rec was more geared towards hunting... for target shooting, I think the cheapest without skimping too much would be one of these:

http://texianfirearms.com/product.savage-10fcp-sr-308win-24-thrd-bbl-law-enforcement

Savage FCP-SR... 24" fluted HBAR with reinforced stock. $650

Add in base/good rings: $100

Vortex Viper Mildot 6.5-20 - $385

A bit above your budget but probably one of the easiest ways to get a decent long distance rig. Easily will be able to sell the scope later for $350ish when you are ready to upgrade to better glass (though this one isn't anything to sneeze at) and that gun is pretty sought after. I've had a few in store and sold two to the staff at American Shooting Center.

---

Good to know you have these. It's what I really want, but they are not overly easy to find.

OP, In a .308 you really dont need any more than 16" of barrel to get to 500. Don't buy more rifle than you need in this case.

I would look for an 11 twist barrel in a .308 so you can shoot 155 grain bullets. Most of today's rifles are twisted 1-10 for the heavies (175-178 grn) that are needed to get to 1000 and beyond with a .308. 155's are cheaper, recoil less, and fly flatter over mid-range distances like the OP is looking at...but they don't always perform as well from 10 twist tubes.

I like Jay's option here with the Savage .308 tac

I like Playboy's line of thought, but I think .223 might be a little too demanding for a 'new' LR shooter, but I'm biased towards heavier bullets in general. If you do decide to hunt with your LR rig, you have much better options and versatility in the .30/7MM cartridges.

If you stick with Savage, Tikka, Remington, you can (somewhat) inexpensively convert over to a chassis gun down the line (with the Savage in Jay's link you're on the way there with a detachable magazine)

Added advantage of .308 (short action) is if you like what you buy, you could re-barrel to a 6.5 Creedmoor down the road; so I'd lean to the Savage with the AccuTrigger as the best starting point. (realistically though you'll just have an excuse to buy a new rifle).

At the end of the day though, as Playboy alluded to re: wind, it all starts with the shooter.

I started 10 years ago with a REM700 Mountain Rifle in .270, 140gr Accubonds, a Leupold Vari-X III and no range finder out to 600. But I also spent 3 days learning some fundamentals from a pretty good instructor.

If you know your variables (ballistics, optics, range/wind) and have good technique, you don't have to spend a ton to get out to 500 and even a little further, especially if you stick with .223/308; that said, probably the easiest entree from a pure shooting aspect would be the 6.5 Creedmoor

My recommendation for a longer barrel was for when the itch comes to go ro a 1,000.

Morning edit: More barrell = more muzzle velocity = less wind drift = less scatter with wind changes = more accuracy.

Pooh ah, I think you're confused. At least I hope you are and don't believe that.
Each cartridge has basically an optimum barrel length for performance. Some rifles do well with a 26" barrel and some don't need "extra length." At a point the amount of drag (due to excessive barrel length) will slow it down - not increase velocity. Stabilization has to do with several things , including but not limited to, twist rate, BC of bullet, velocity, bullet length, etc.
"The longer the barrel, the more accurate the rifle" is myth.

I have a Remington 788 in .222 Rem Mag I will sell you. That thing is a tack driver, even with the old ammo I have.

We are both correct:

Accuracy

quote:

---

Explaining Barrel Length:

Belief: a long barrel is required for accuracy when shooting at long distance.

Fact: In no part of our testing was barrel length a determining factor in accuracy. At a distance of 100-540 yards, there was no discernible difference in accuracy between various barrel lengths. This performance translated over to unknown distance shooting with all barrel lengths at ranges out to 900 yards. At no point in the testing was a short barrel a hindrance once marksmanship fundamentals were observed and proper flight data was applied.

---

Velocity

quote:

---

Explaining Velocity:

Belief: Now that we know that accuracy is pretty much the same, short barreled rifles lose too much velocity be effective at long ranges.

Fact: This is a double-edged sword. The 13.5-inch length could propel a 168 grain Hornady TAP round at an average velocity of 2390 fps, which is hardly slow. That is only a decrease of around 315 fps from the 26 inch length (25.2 fps/in), and vindicates many researchers who pioneered velocity discussions. There was no noticeable critical difference in accuracy at any range. There is a downside to longer ranges and reduced velocities, that being increased susceptibility to wind as range increases. Increased drift is not the end of the world, though, and if measured properly, can be overcome with ease.

---

Barrel length does not change accuracy of the rifle, but it DOES change the velocity of the projectile and the slower the bullet at medium and long range, the more wind drift it experiences. This will impact accuracy of the shooter (not the rifle) in the wind when the shooter does not read the wind change correctly (which I would argue is on every shot). How much error, or wind drift from the point of aim, will result from is a function of the BC of the bullet and the velocity profile of the bullet down range. Higher muzzle velocities reduce this error by minimizing the amount of time the bullet is subjected to the wind and make the shooter, not the rifle, more accurate by being less affected by error.

Remember it is about the nut behind the rifle!

For fun I'll link here - not trying to hijack - a site i go to regularly amongst several when comparing cartridges (includes some discussion on barrel lengths too) though the primary focus is long range hunting, but some interesting comparisons of different bullets and cartridges for those that are interested

http://www.ballisticstudies.com/Knowledgebase.html

Your point about barrel length is partially true. My point is after a certain length there are diminishing returns on velocity due to a "drag to powder burn" ratio.
I've never heard of a 30" barrel on a rifle and certainly one that improves velocity at that length.

quote:

---

Your point about barrel length is partially true. My point is after a certain length there are diminishing returns on velocity due to a "drag to powder burn" ratio.
I've never heard of a 30" barrel on a rifle and certainly one that improves velocity at that length.

---

I own one

http://www.savagearms.com/firearms/model/12FTR

I am pushing Berger 155.5 grain fullbores at just over 2,900 fps.

More info here.

Rifle Barrels What The Pros Use

Palma

Also take a look at the Ruger American Predator in .308 or 6.5 creed, $400ish street price. Comes with a scope rail and is already threaded so you can easily add a muzzle brake. With a Vortex Viper or Diamondback HP plus a muzzle brake you'd be well within your budget.

http://www.ruger.com/products/americanRiflePredator/models.html

That image just represents the max length the barrel maker will cut to those contours. The barrels are then cut to length and crowned to custom specs. If you read the article further, all the top shooters cut to 28" or less with the majority at 26". For a .308 cased cartridge or similar powder capacities, I doubt you'll get much extra velocity going longer than 24". Also, a shorter barrel will be stiffer in equal contours.

For the OP, I'd go with a Model 700 since they are so easy to customize in the future. Find a used Model 700 for around $350 and spend the rest on glass. My 2 cents.

Remington 700 5R Barrel in a 308 or a 300 win mag in a McMillian A-5 adjustable stock or an accuracy international 2.0. The glass I would look at the NightForce 5.5-22X56 NXS with a 3 inch sun shade. Learn hand loading.

Enjoy shooting 2 inch groups at 500 yards.

Sorry, I was thinking inside my box!

quote:

---

Remington 700 5R Barrel in a 308 or a 300 win mag in a McMillian A-5 adjustable stock or an accuracy international 2.0. The glass I would look at the NightForce 5.5-22X56 NXS with a 3 inch sun shade. Learn hand loading.

Enjoy shooting 2 inch groups at 500 yards.

---

Someone skipped the budget...

Yeah they did.