Future-proofing Electrical Outlets

1,420 Views | 19 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by txyaloo
RustyBoltz
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As our kitchen remodel progresses, I'm looking toward gathering the finishing touches including new brown/bronze switches, outlets and switch plates.
In the past years, I've replaced some bedroom outlets with dual use USB-A outlets but I see now that USB-C is becoming more widespread. Is USB-C "it" for a while? Leviton/Eaton now produces dual USB-A, dual USB-C and combination USB-A & -C outlets which is 2 too many choices.
Of the four outlets along the main kitchen, 2 are GFI which I'll just replace with new GFI. The other two will get USB added - are the combination -A/-C outlets the best option then?
OldArmyBrent
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That's the best you'll do for future proofing outlets right now, I think. Next up is wireless charging, so that won't really impact the outlets. If everything you have somehow uses USB C (and everything your friends may want to plug into your outlet is covered), then I'd go with C.
tomtomdrumdrum
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If you wanna get wild with home automation, something like this:

iDevices Wall Outlet - Wi-Fi enabled smart outlet; Works with Alexa, Siri, the Google Assistant https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y46XDS2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_mW6XFbJY4B1YD
lb3
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USB-C (in various incarnations) will be the standard for the next 15+ years.
TMoney2007
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I wouldn't buy any wifi based smart devices. I don't want the clutter on my network.
txyaloo
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tomtomdrumdrum said:

If you wanna get wild with home automation, something like this:

iDevices Wall Outlet - Wi-Fi enabled smart outlet; Works with Alexa, Siri, the Google Assistant https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y46XDS2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_mW6XFbJY4B1YD
Why would someone want to pay that much when a zwave or zigbee outlet is less than half the price, does the same thing, and doesn't add a bunch of chatter on your network?

https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-Appliance-Receptacle-Resistant-Controllable/dp/B07B3HKTZY
RustyBoltz
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I'm not on board with home automation yet - I find a lot of it to be solutions looking for problems. The only reason we got a Nest was they threw it in "free" with our new AC/Heat Pump system. I've found that that, at least, to be useful.
I'm limiting my upgrades to making to making our kitchen more user friendly and tidy.
Civen
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RustyBoltz said:

I'm not on board with home automation yet - I find a lot of it to be solutions looking for problems.
Seriously. I really can't see the use case that justifies the cost. How many freaking Alexa devices do I need around my house? Especially when Amazon/Google/whoever decides to try stuff like this: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-sidewalk-privacy-neighborhood-wifi-networks-us-2020-11

I have 2 Ecobee's only because I wanted something with an interface that was actually easy/usuable. And 2 google minis that I got free with a phone purchase. I have one in the kitchen that I use as a timer and music player... the other gets basically no use.
txyaloo
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Civen said:

RustyBoltz said:

I'm not on board with home automation yet - I find a lot of it to be solutions looking for problems.
Seriously. I really can't see the use case that justifies the cost. How many freaking Alexa devices do I need around my house? Especially when Amazon/Google/whoever decides to try stuff like this: https://www.businessinsider.com/amazon-sidewalk-privacy-neighborhood-wifi-networks-us-2020-11

I have 2 Ecobee's only because I wanted something with an interface that was actually easy/usuable. And 2 google minis that I got free with a phone purchase. I have one in the kitchen that I use as a timer and music player... the other gets basically no use.
Once you get used to the convenience, it's hard to go back.

My dad was having issues falling at night because he wouldn't turn a light on or use a flashlight. I put a motion sensor and smart wall switch in the living room that comes on at ~10% brightness from sunset to sunrise. He hated it at first, but has gotten used to it. My mom liked it so much she wanted the same in their laundry room.

I use motion sensors in bathrooms to turn the lights on/off automatically at night at ~5% brightness. That way you can see but don't blind yourself when getting up to go to the bathroom in the middle of the night. I have some weird wiring with lights/switches in bad locations. Lutron Pico remotes, smart switches/bulbs, etc, let me put new switches wherever I want without having to run wires.

Lots of things you can do fairly inexpensively that make life more convenient.
eric76
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If I was building a house, I'd probably put in at least twice as many outlets and run conduit to them. The idea is that when something else is needed in the future, all we need to do is run it through the conduit to the outlet.
OldArmyBrent
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RustyBoltz said:

I'm not on board with home automation yet - I find a lot of it to be solutions looking for problems. The only reason we got a Nest was they threw it in "free" with our new AC/Heat Pump system. I've found that that, at least, to be useful.
I'm limiting my upgrades to making to making our kitchen more user friendly and tidy.

I went whole hog on home automation. Cameras, switches, outlets, lights, thermostat. The only thing connected to someone else's cloud is the ecobee. Everything else is a mixture of 433 MHz, zigbee, z-wave, and local-only wifi. It's absurd, but I enjoy it. I can look at a screen with a floor plan and see which lights are on, whether doors or windows are open, and what temperature each room is. I can even click camera icons and see that camera's live feed.

It's absolutely ridiculous. I have found so many problems to throw my solutions at.

TLDR - you're right. USB outlets are clutch. Stick with those unless you want to waste a ton of time and money on automation while also annoying your wife.
kb2001
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USB Type C connectors are here to stay, but Type A isn't going away anytime soon either.

Do you have any devices that only have type A ports? Lightning cables, Kindles, older devices that are still micro-USB?

At this point, we are mostly to type C, but still have some older devices. A lot of new phones still come with a charge/data cable that is Type A on one end and Type C on the device end.
91AggieLawyer
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lb3 said:

USB-C (in various incarnations) will be the standard for the next 15+ years.
I wouldn't bet money on this. Not that I'd say you're definitely wrong, but look at how many somewhat similar things have come and gone in the last 15 years or so:

-- Firewire
-- original Thunderbolt
-- Lightning

Probably others I'm not mentioning. Obviously, some are proprietary and not exactly the same but these mentioned are either being replaced by some form of USB currently or obsolete now. What's to stop USC-C to suffer the same fate? Plus, look at other stuff we used in the 15 years prior to that:

-- SCSI
-- Serial Port
-- PS/2

5 years ago, no one would have predicted Apple would go with some form of USB on their iPads. I just bought 2 different iPad versions and both have USB-C instead of Lightning, something that's been on IOS devices for what, a decade? 8 years anyway. I got a 2012 Mac Mini after the 2014 one came out in part because the 2012 one still had Firewire. I needed it for an audio interface.

I'm probably the only person in America with 4 Mac machines in my house with Firewire! While I wouldn't be money on anything related to this, if I had to, I'd say someone will say something similar to my comment here about USB-C in 15 years. You don't even see that many 2005 vehicles on the road much.
UmustBKidding
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I'm in the more outlets, without built in stuff camp. I have a few with usb and they are not the panacea you would hope. USB A has been around forever. But there was first USB capable of 0.5A,, then apple decided to tie a few resistors on data lines and it was 1A, then 2A then Qualcomm decided that Apple was wrong exposing how many amps a device wants and did quick charge. Think they are up to 4.0 now. Yes its still usb charging but never the best and usually not the proper standard for a given random device to charge the fastest. USB-C PD the power delivery standard has had revisions already, and vendor specific implementations.
I have a few outlet expanders with USB in and at least when a new standard arrives I can throw them in the electronic junk box and plug in a new one, not turn off the breaker and all the devices on the associated circuit and remove wiring that is not designed to be messed with after installed, or worse get an electrician out to do it.
I have a dedicated shelf in the laundry room and garage that has a power strip and chargers for things like drill pack, hand vac etc. Having a usb outlet behind my night stand, under my cabinet or behind the television does not provide any convenience for me. The multi standard charger velcro'ed on my desk, end table and night stand are more accessible and therefor useful.
If you want some outlets that swivel so you can plug in wall warts more easily go for it. But fancy outlets don't make things any better for me.
RustyBoltz
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I thought I was hot **** when I got a mac pro with Firewire 800 only to have it be quickly obsoleted by Thunderbolt.

Thanks all for the input. I'm going to stick with the -A/-C combination outlets since we still have older devices floating around the household. It will be nice to have usb-C built in and save me the cost of buying any more PD charging blocks - those got expensive real quick.
Sweet Kitten Feet
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RustyBoltz said:

I'm not on board with home automation yet - I find a lot of it to be solutions looking for problems.

I'm kinda just now getting into the smart home thing, but I love it. Being able to trigger routines at certain times. Using a simple voice command if I'm feeling lazy. I'm really enjoying. Installing smart switched in our main living areas right now. I just think it's cool and convenient.
Pman17
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Do USB-C, USB-A is now on its way out.
tomtomdrumdrum
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txyaloo said:

tomtomdrumdrum said:

If you wanna get wild with home automation, something like this:

iDevices Wall Outlet - Wi-Fi enabled smart outlet; Works with Alexa, Siri, the Google Assistant https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y46XDS2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_mW6XFbJY4B1YD
Why would someone want to pay that much when a zwave or zigbee outlet is less than half the price, does the same thing, and doesn't add a bunch of chatter on your network?

https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-Appliance-Receptacle-Resistant-Controllable/dp/B07B3HKTZY

One difference is Apple homekit compatibility, but I didn't put much research into the recommendation - was more just offering it as an example.
AgDev01
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I think the difference is that USB-C is replacing a ubiquitous standard in USB-A where firewire etc are either dead or have morphed to use the USB-C form factor. Its also been around for 5 years now and is just now coming into full adoption as people have phased out old phones and laptops.

That being said whatever power rating the usb ports have will probably be terribly outdated given the changes in phone charging over the last few years.
91AggieLawyer
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AgDev01 said:

I think the difference is that USB-C is replacing a ubiquitous standard in USB-A where firewire etc are either dead or have morphed to use the USB-C form factor. Its also been around for 5 years now and is just now coming into full adoption as people have phased out old phones and laptops.

That being said whatever power rating the usb ports have will probably be terribly outdated given the changes in phone charging over the last few years.
I hope you're right. I'm getting tired of these things changing ever couple of years. I don't know why they didn't stick with firewire and just expand that. Or Thunderbolt. Or...

I think the greater point about ports on outlets is that receptacles are easy to change out, so if its just for charging purposes, I wouldn't worry too much about it. If its connected to something, then maybe later it can be rewired. I don't think USB-A is going anywhere anytime soon, so adapters will be available. It will just be a matter of data speed.
txyaloo
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tomtomdrumdrum said:

txyaloo said:

tomtomdrumdrum said:

If you wanna get wild with home automation, something like this:

iDevices Wall Outlet - Wi-Fi enabled smart outlet; Works with Alexa, Siri, the Google Assistant https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06Y46XDS2/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_fabc_mW6XFbJY4B1YD
Why would someone want to pay that much when a zwave or zigbee outlet is less than half the price, does the same thing, and doesn't add a bunch of chatter on your network?

https://www.amazon.com/Honeywell-Appliance-Receptacle-Resistant-Controllable/dp/B07B3HKTZY

One difference is Apple homekit compatibility, but I didn't put much research into the recommendation - was more just offering it as an example.
I don't run many Apple products, but I'm fairly sure Hubitat or Smartthings will integrate into Homekit. I run a Hubitat hub for my automations since everything runs offline. You still come out way ahead dropping $100 for a hub and $30 for outlets vs buying $100 outlets. Plus a hub offers a ton more functionality.
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