Home Networking Question

1,695 Views | 18 Replies | Last: 5 yr ago by TX scallywAG
Mike88Ag
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AG
I need to make some pre-wiring decisions for a new house we're building in Bridgeland. I want to make sure I run plenty of ethernet drops (especially downstairs), but don't want to overdo it because they cost too damn much. I'm not as concerned about the upstairs because I'll have easy access from the attic if I ever need to run more.

If any of you have solid network experience, I'd appreciate it if you could help answer the following questions.

1) Is it worth the extra cost to run Cat 6A cable? They charge $91 per drop to run Cat 5e. Upgrading to Cat 6 is an incremental $61 per drop ($152 total), and Cat 6A is another $30 per drop on top of that ($182 total). Note that the type of Cat 6A cable they run is unshielded (U/UTP).

2) Because of the fear of running too few cables, I'll probably have them run 1.5" flexible conduit from the panel box to a few key downstairs locations (Family Room, Study, and Patio) so I can run more cables later (or have the ability to run new cables if needed as technology evolves in the future). The conduits are $214 per run.

3) If I run the conduits, should I forgo paying the builder $182 per Cat 6A drop (and $91 per RG6 coax drop) and run the cables to those locations myself? I can get 1000' of Cat 6A U/UTP for ~$200, and I already own the RG6 and RJ45 compression tools.

4) Should I plan on running ethernet to a few ceiling locations for Wireless Access Points, or skip that and just use a wireless mesh system? The house will be fairly large...two story and approximately 5500 sq ft.

Thanks!
Average Joe
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AG
Is the builder running the cable? If so, make them go with a third party (of your choosing) that actually does this type of work. If not, find a different company to run the cable. Those prices are absolutely absurd.

If you want to run it yourself then do yourself a favor and get in there before drywall is on. Also, make sure you get boxes so the drywall guys don't cover the cables with drywall.
ntxVol
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Wow, your builder is raping you. I would do the conduit and make the drops later myself for that price.

Course, if you can afford a 5500sq. ft. house, what are you complaining about?
Mike88Ag
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They use a 3rd party for the low voltage installations (ConnectOne out of Houston). I agree the prices are outlandish, but they sort of have you over a barrel. I'm not allowed to run wires, or anything else for that matter, while the home is under construction.
Mike88Ag
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ntxVOL said:

Course, if you can afford a 5500sq. ft. house, what are you complaining about?
At these prices, I'll be flat broke by the time it's done!
Marvin_Zindler
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Hell, for those kind of numbers, I'd just show up on a weekend when no one is working and run my own drops.
Average Joe
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Mike88Ag said:

They use a 3rd party for the low voltage installations (ConnectOne out of Houston). I agree the prices are outlandish, but they sort of have you over a barrel. I'm not allowed to run wires, or anything else for that matter, while the home is under construction.
I would call up ConnectOne and ask them how much they charge per drop as if you were a new customer. If your builder is marking that up then I would raise hell. If that's what ConnectOne charges, then I would raise hell. Then I would run conduit and do it myself later. In fact, I would run the conduit either way.
Gary79Ag
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For those prices, there should be a tv, modem, receiver or whatever device also attached on the runs as well...that's highway robbery to say the least...
JSKolache
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Bro, just come take mine. We have cat5 panels in every single room & we use exactly ZERO of them. WiFi for everything....
UmustBKidding
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Run wire, hardwired links are bullet proof, wireless not so much. Also the wireless spectrum get more crowded every day and what works now will likely have issues in the future always at the worst possible time. An since you are almost always talking about unlicensed spectrum there is absolutely nothing you can do to resolve it.
Higher speed networks demand more care. If they are actually testing and certifying with quality test equipment then the price bumps may be justified. But the test equipment that I have that can do the basic stuff to certify Gb networks costs $10,000 when I bought it (cheaper now) and stuff that would certify 10G networks and 100Gb networks would be many times more. Almost no home contractor has any clue how an installation would perform beyond basic continuity. Are they upgrading jack, patch panels and all the integral pieces necessary to make Cat 6 work any better than cat 5e, unlikely.
I have 2+Mi of cable in my 5500' house and there are absolutely places I should have run more. At the time there was no such thing as POE and wish I had put in camera runs and additional runs to media rich locations. Also wish I put more coax in to back feed video from devices to the IDF.
Even with all IP I think you should run some coax. I have coax to every place a Tv makes sense and should of run two, and maybe more where I have multiple DBS devices. SWIM helps but still a RF back channel is useful at time. Have Fiber, coax, cat cable and AC power to the Entrance facility area to the Distribution frame.
I would run interduct between IDF/media center/wiring closet to places you have large displays, sound bars, subs. Can use it to do your own wire runs as the system grows. I would not run flexible steal conduit or rws.
saw em off
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The only benefit to CAT6A is it supports a 10GB backbone. That's way overkill for a home. You can run 1gb even over CAT5e. If you do decide to run drops for access points, make sure you get a PoE switch or you'll need electrical next to those drops also.
TX scallywAG
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My $0.02

$152 for cat 6 installed, drilling through wood cross members, all keystone inserts, faceplates, & patch panel really isn't bad. All toned, tested, & labeled. Patch panel in a HVAC area, not the hot attic.

Keep in mind, the builder will (should) be using plenum rated cable with fire safety and electrical inspections in mind. For that price, ensure they're not using cheap copper coated aluminium.

In business, I usually see $45ish per Cat 6 plenum materials and $115ish per hour labor per hour... key point here, by someone who tones, tests, & labels. That puts you around $160 per.

That's a smaller "per drop" scenario. Anything over 10 drops, should be quoted as a project as they can gain economies of scale. It also could go up depending on supports, hangers, rack, rack build out, patch cables, high ceilings, etc. That's why I'm not a huge fan of per dron rates.

IMO do upstairs now... stay out of the hot attic later and avoid regretting it.

This is the car wash scenario. I can spend 2 hours washing the Tahoe... or pay $35 and have it done by someone else while I sit in the AC. Take my money.
---
Class of '10 - A&M Undergrad & Master's Alum
JDCAG (NOT Colin)
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If you have rooms that will be easily accessible from above, you can probably get it done later for cheaper.

The pain in the ass spots, like into a room that is directly below a 2nd floor and has no access are the places that are probably worth doing now.

Olag00
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When we built, we had a similar situation and I asked the third party if they could lower the per drop with the amount I was installing and they did. The price per drop are for people doing 1 or 2 here and there. I had over 50 drops added on top of what was included in the home purchase.
UmustBKidding
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Plenam rated cable in any home install is a waste. We do run it at times where it's not required in commercial but only to cover cases where air return strategy changes or incompetent installer runs pvc where they should not, just to cover any liability. But embedded in sheetrock walls and ceilings and having no wiring in ducts there is no reason at all to run anything but pvc unless you own stock in a cable company.
Don't bother to tone my cable show me the near and far cross talk (elfext) length, skew, rl (alien on 6a) and other numbers that mean something and give you a real indication that it will be useful for real network signals.
Pilmer
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UmustBKidding said:

Plenam rated cable in any home install is a waste. We do run it at times where it's not required in commercial but only to cover cases where air return strategy changes or incompetent installer runs pvc where they should not, just to cover any liability. But embedded in sheetrock walls and ceilings and having no wiring in ducts there is no reason at all to run anything but pvc unless you own stock in a cable company.
Don't bother to tone my cable show me the near and far cross talk (elfext) length, skew, rl (alien on 6a) and other numbers that mean something and give you a real indication that it will be useful for real network signals.
Sometimes your insurance company will void your insurance if they discover your cable is not plenam rated.
UmustBKidding
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Bull***t
If it's not in a plenam they cannot require ptfe. All the class 1 wiring in your home is not plenam rated so are you not allowed electric outlets? Also class 2 wiring like door bells, burgler and fire alarms also detectors are not allowed either?
I have see plenty of Muni we know better than the nec but never anything this stupid. Anyone that would run a cable inside a return or supply air duct in a home is an idiot and would not meet code even if it was ptfe.
eric76
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One thing you could do is to put more outlets than you need and cover them with a blank plate and run conduit back to a central location. The idea is that in the future, if you need something else, you will already have the conduit and make it easy to run, whether it is electric, telephone, cable tv, internet, or something else.
Grits
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If you have RJ45 crimpers, and everything else you need to do the drops just go on ahead and do it yourself. The only thing you have to watch out for are fire breaks behind the sheetrock (if you're planning on doing the drops after the wall is finished), they can make things a little bit tricky. But you shouldn't have too much difficulty doing it yourself, provided you have some free time.
-OCHWFLAKASSBRTTEFE-
TX scallywAG
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If it's my home... plenum. All technology & alarm cabling in my house is not cheap Chinese BS. You're acting like it's plated in gold. The price jump is MAYBE 20%. Also, I like knowing the tech specs. My cable will be tested and guaranteed for better transmissions off the factory line.

Notice I said I'm in business/B2B in my post. If you're running it straight through wood end caps & cross members (no EMT)... don't go bottom of the barrel. That brown pair of the cable carriers power. Cheap cable jackets rip when pulled, exposing wires carrying low electrical currents.

Typical builders are cutting corners at your long term expense & their quick dollar. They install it and walk away. You live with it.
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Class of '10 - A&M Undergrad & Master's Alum
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