Ethernet over coax

1,898 Views | 20 Replies | Last: 6 yr ago by akaggie05
AtlAg05
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AG
I'm currently using powerline adapters to get internet upstairs to my desktop. The speed that I get is basically half what I can get at the modem.

The house has coax to all the rooms so I'm curious what kind of performance I could get from the Ethernet over coax devices. Last I looked they were fairly expensive and I would need two.

Anyone have any experience using them?
FatZilla
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Any reason you are not using wireless? Plenty of adapters you can use.
lockett93
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Would the directv Moca adapters work? They are only like $10 each
AtlAg05
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FatZilla said:

Any reason you are not using wireless? Plenty of adapters you can use.


Wireless isn't the best, my desktop is used mostly for gaming.
Mattressburn
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What speeds are you getting currently? Any chance you have a whole home surge protector those create havoc for powerline?. Also any chance you're using 2 prong powerline adapters instead of 3 prong? MoCA can beat powerline but only in older houses without grounding or a house with a whole home surge.
The Fife
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Anyone else read this and have bad memories of BNC cable networks?
AtlAg05
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No Home surge protector and I am using the 2 prong. Would the 3 prong help with consistency or does it still have reconnect issues?

I pay for 50 Mbps down and speed test around 20-25.
akaggie05
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The Fife said:

Anyone else read this and have bad memories of BNC cable networks?


Yep, was immediately thinking of T-connectors and terminators.
fcag
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The Fife said:

Anyone else read this and have bad memories of BNC cable networks?


Reminded me of the 4th floor of the engineering/physics building when another grad student unplugged it from the back of his computer and then locked his office and left for a few days. Took the entire hall down.
FatZilla
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AtlAg05 said:

FatZilla said:

Any reason you are not using wireless? Plenty of adapters you can use.


Wireless isn't the best, my desktop is used mostly for gaming.


PWL or Eth over coax will most likely have the same if not more latency than a good modern router. Whats the distance from your router to the computer? A good strong 5ghz band should top any of your other options except a direct ethernet hardwire.
Mattressburn
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AG
I know 3 prong helps with the throughput sometimes more than double in fact. My gut tells me that the 3 prong or MIMO would be more reliable but I don't have any data to back that up. Just feels like there would be less noise on the ground wire.

I haven't had to buy any in a while but it looks like the current crop is capable of gigabit speeds. Of course that's with the adapters being on the same circuit which is unlikely.

If this was me I'd get some new powerline adapters from a store with a very forgiving return policy. Only after those didn't improve would I look at the new MoCA adapters. They have a new standard but it doesn't look like anyone is making it yet. I honestly wouldn't hold my breath either. Actiontec makes the only 2.0 device and that took years for it to come out after the standard was released.

Here's a good writeup on the different powerline adapters.

https://thewirecutter.com/reviews/best-powerline-networking-kit/
Harry Bosch
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I use Ethernet over coax for one of my upstairs machines as well. I have absolutely zero issues with it and speed is just fine
AtlAg05
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AGGIE_EE_85 said:

I use Ethernet over coax for one of my upstairs machines as well. I have absolutely zero issues with it and speed is just fine


Which devices do you use?

I wasn't aware of the $10 DirectTV options, I assume you don't need DirectTV to use them. This would be the cheapest option to try and if they don't work I can return to Amazon.
Harry Bosch
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Actiontec Ethernet to Coax MoCA Network Adapter ECB2500C. I got a Fios repair guy to give me one once but you can get them online - shop around.
80085
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FatZilla said:



PWL or Eth over coax will most likely have the same if not more latency than a good modern router.


How is that possible?
FatZilla
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robertf03 said:

FatZilla said:



PWL or Eth over coax will most likely have the same if not more latency than a good modern router.


How is that possible?
Which part?
80085
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The part I quoted
FatZilla
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Because house wiring sucks in most houses? Breakers, junctions and the like screw up PWL connections a lot and it all depends on how your house is wired for coax too. Any splitters, any repeaters etc. A good 5ghz band is superior, hell even a 2.4 is superior over very long runs in both speed and reliability.
80085
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I donr buy it. Theres got to be just as much noise over RF than even the worst house wiring.
AtlAg05
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I ended up getting a pair of the Zykel AV2000 for $40 on sale Friday. Tested them out and went from 20 Mbps to 90 Mbps.

Needless to say, I'm quite happy.
BrazosDog02
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I have one of these ready for pickup. Have a promo code that took it to 130.

I can't believe a wired setup is better than modern routing technology. I'm not a good source though.

https://www.frys.com/product/8697300
akaggie05
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BrazosDog02 said:

I have one of these ready for pickup. Have a promo code that took it to 130.

I can't believe a wired setup is better than modern routing technology. I'm not a good source though.

https://www.frys.com/product/8697300


Hopefully I can provide some clarification. First of all, using the term "routing technology" to refer to wireless vs. wired is somewhat misplaced. When discussing networks, specifically packet-based networks that use the IP protocol, routing generally means the act of bridging two or more distinct network segments together. Your home router, whether it has a wireless interface or not, is generally providing a routing function between the public-facing WAN interface and your "private" internal network (usually with both wired and wireless interfaces) using a technique called network address translation, or NAT.

With that out of the way, the point of confusion seems to be how modern wireless air interfaces (802.11n, 802.11ac, etc.) don't stack up favorably against their modern-day wired peers. I spent a good chunk of my early career designing and implementing layer 2/3 wireless protocols for military air-air and air-ground communications, and the challenges associated with delivering a robust and reliable wireless communication path over any appreciable distance (and without consuming huge amounts of power) are immense.

For starters, at the very basic physical layer (Layer 1 of the OSI model), your medium for a wired connection is essentially a private highway, less a few occasional sources of interference that are usually dealt with rather swiftly either by the use of shielded cable in extreme environments, or by simple common-mode rejection of interference sources by the very nature of twisted pair cable. Your medium for a wireless interface is an absolute jumbled mess of interference sources, including, for example, signals that bounce off of objects in the environment and arrive as multiple copies at the receiver, all slightly out of time phase with their twins (known as multipath interference). Modern wireless protocols are very good at dealing with common sources of interference and multipath effects through the use of techniques such as forward error correction (where additional information is packed into the data stream which allows recovery from small blips in the signal... where the user wouldn't normally even notice it). However, the FEC data (among other things) is really just additional data that has to be packed into the channel alongside the raw traffic. As channel conditions degrade (when you move further away from the access point or find yourself in a congested area where there are multiple wireless networks in close proximity), most all modern 802.11 based protocols will start shifting to what's known as "more robust" rates.... slower and at a higher transmit power level. It's akin to standing in a loud, crowded room and yelling louder but at a much slower pace. Someone across the room probably has a much better chance of making our what you're saying over all the background noise, but throughput suffers.

Most of the marketing hype and throughput claims around wireless networking technologies are fast to mention the theoretical maximum speeds that the protocol itself can support. These are usually assuming near-perfect environments (and for measurement's sake, many have actually been taken in lab conditions where the RF signal path was sent over a piece of coax cable instead of over the air with antennas). Wired transmission paths (and the protocols that run over them that don't have to make performance trade-offs and include tons of overhead to deal with crappy channel conditions) will always win the performance and reliability battle, period.

Edit: most of what I said above centers on traditional wired Ethernet vs. wireless. Powerline adapters still share many of the same characteristics (and cleaner channel conditions) as compared to wireless, especially given the lower frequencies and noise floors as compared to a true OTA wireless link.
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