Texan_Aggie said:

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Cross Chris Jones off the list. 4 year extension w the Chiefs.

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I've kind of felt like we were gonna get Wilkins all along anyways.

Texan_Aggie said:

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Cross Chris Jones off the list. 4 year extension w the Chiefs.

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That surprises me

Mr.Bond said:

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Texan_Aggie said:

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Cross Chris Jones off the list. 4 year extension w the Chiefs.

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That surprises me

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Which part? I'm sure he likes winning so as long as they could make it a competitive contract it seems to make sense to me

Texan_Aggie said:

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Cross Chris Jones off the list. 4 year extension w the Chiefs.

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Where do you see this? I haven't seen it anywhere yet, just people expecting it to happen

gougler08 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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Texan_Aggie said:

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Cross Chris Jones off the list. 4 year extension w the Chiefs.

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That surprises me

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Which part? I'm sure he likes winning so as long as they could make it a competitive contract it seems to make sense to me

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Well considering the Chiefs currently have about 3.4 million in cap space, it's a surprise they could just outright sign him without cutting some people first. Also, now that I'm looking around I haven't seen any confirmation that he's been resigned yet.

I don't think the Chris Jones news is legit. John Harris was saying fake news earlier this evening.

IrishAg said:

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gougler08 said:

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Mr.Bond said:

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Texan_Aggie said:

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Cross Chris Jones off the list. 4 year extension w the Chiefs.

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That surprises me

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Which part? I'm sure he likes winning so as long as they could make it a competitive contract it seems to make sense to me

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Well considering the Chiefs currently have about 3.4 million in cap space, it's a surprise they could just outright sign him without cutting some people first. Also, now that I'm looking around I haven't seen any confirmation that he's been resigned yet.

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If KC was going to extend him why wouldn't they have done it back when he was holding out and not playing?

Just doesn't make sense to not do it then but do it now.

Ag_07 said:

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If KC was going to extend him why wouldn't they have done it back when he was holding out and not playing?

Just doesn't make sense to not do it then but do it now.

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Also, he's completely an unrestricted FA because of them not wanting to give him that long term contract last year. I really don't know why he would sign before free agency begins to figure out his market value.

Also, KC has issues with this resigning, outside of not being able to afford him without some significant cuts. Jones is as valuable to KC as Mahomes is. Crazy to say it, but it's the truth, I don't think they would have even made it to the Super Bowl if Jones wasn't leading their defense. So, you can't really ask Jones to sign with a huge discount, considering if they make him the highest paid DT he would be making just about half of Mahomes salary (almost 59 million this year). And again, his agent should be able to argue that Jones's worth is at least half of what Mahomes worth is to this team.

IrishAg said:

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Ag_07 said:

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If KC was going to extend him why wouldn't they have done it back when he was holding out and not playing?

Just doesn't make sense to not do it then but do it now.

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Also, he's completely an unrestricted FA because of them not wanting to give him that long term contract last year. I really don't know why he would sign before free agency begins to figure out his market value.

Also, KC has issues with this resigning, outside of not being able to afford him without some significant cuts. Jones is as valuable to KC as Mahomes is. Crazy to say it, but it's the truth, I don't think they would have even made it to the Super Bowl if Jones wasn't leading their defense. So, you can't really ask Jones to sign with a huge discount, considering if they make him the highest paid DT he would be making just about half of Mahomes salary (almost 59 million this year). And again, his agent should be able to argue that Jones's worth is at least half of what Mahomes worth is to this team.

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They might not be able to afford Snead either. Most of the speculation around them tagging him was trying to trade him for a second round pick. The only player that plays interior defensive line that makes over $30MM/year is Aaron Donald. The next highest paid guy is Quinnen Williams at $24MM/year. Chris Jones's value is somewhere between $25MM-$30MM. That's a huge amount of money for any team to pay for one guy regardless of how much cap money they have. If Snead isn't traded he's going to get just shy of $20MM this year. They're going to have to let guys go and try to replace in the draft and free agency with cheaper guys. It's not inconceivable that Snead and Jones are on different rosters at the beginning of the season. Another thing about Snead is on the other side they have Trent McDuffie who's still on a rookie contact and he's one of the best CB's in football.

Sounds like the Chris Jones stuff was taken into, but Pat McAfee seems to say both sides are going to try to get it done.

Madubuike just got a 4 year deal so my guess is Chiefs and Jones were waiting for that to close to put fence posts around his deal.

Still think we are best off letting Greenard walk and drafting his replacement.

The name I've heard associated with the Texans that is intriguing is Patrick Queen. Would be okay replacing cashman w Queen.

Texan_Aggie said:

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Sounds like the Chris Jones stuff was taken into, but Pat McAfee seems to say both sides are going to try to get it done.

Madubuike just got a 4 year deal so my guess is Chiefs and Jones were waiting for that to close to put fence posts around his deal.

Still think we are best off letting Greenard walk and drafting his replacement.

The name I've heard associated with the Texans that is intriguing is Patrick Queen. Would be okay replacing cashman w Queen.

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That's pretty much a generic journalist statement by Pat, of course both sides are going to try to get it done. But until KC frees up a lot of cap space they can't sign Jones not matter how much they want to.

Overall, they have to free up probably at least 30 million this year to sign Jones, other FAs, and their draft class. They really can't afford to defer too much past this year because then they would then have close to 100 million in cap space tied up with him and Mahomes next year and the year after. On top of all of that, the contract will have a serious cap dent over the life of it because I seriously doubt Jones won't command somewhere near the 75 million in guaranteed money that Madubuike just got so that will be on the books over the next 4 years.

We probably will let Greenard walk

That's interesting on Queen, not sure where you're hearing that, but I will be shocked (I mean us trading a 1st round pick for a veteran RB level shocked) if we spend a ton on a free agent LB, which is what Queen will probably get. This model is based on San Fran, and I would say almost all of their FA big game hunting money goes to finding new defensive lineman. Their spend on LB, CB, and Safety are usually focused on home grown guys.

DJ Bien Ame reported mutual interest. Supposedly he and CJ are close.

With these DLmen coming off the board why not resign Greenard?

He was pretty dang good and ended up in the top 10 with 12.5 sacks.

Honestly I wouldn't have minded seeing a franchise tag used on him.

Ag_07 said:

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With these DLmen coming off the board why not resign Greenard?

He was pretty dang good and ended up in the top 10 with 12.5 sacks.

Honestly I wouldn't have minded seeing a franchise tag used on him.

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Madubuike was always off the board, as he would have been tagged if they hadn't done a deal. Other than that no one big has been resigned yet, so no need to lock in us with a franchise tag.

The issue with Greenard is trying to figure out if they think he'll stay at this level or if they think he'll go back to all of the previous seasons. This is a guy who, in 4 years, has yet to make it through a season completely healthy (although this year was the closest with only missing 2 games) and has more sacks this year than his previous 3 combined. Reports are saying he's looking to get 18 to 20 million a year, which would give him the 8th biggest DE salary in the league. Is he really worth that? Or are his stats just a by-product of playing in a DE friendly system across from a guy that was top 3 in pass rush win rates, which would mean you could find a cheaper replacement for him. It's really tough, because I think Greenard could be a really good player for us, but I don't think he's a great player.

This past year screams contract year player to me. Let him walk at that asking price

So….bring back Clowney?

https://texanswire.usatoday.com/2024/03/08/texans-te-dalton-schultz-will-only-count-7-94-million-against-the-2024-salary-cap/

Schultz only counts $7.94M against the cap this year, and realistically this is probably a 2 year deal. Not bad at all.

MaxPower said:

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So….bring back Clowney?

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Sure, if his contract is a good value. Same thing with Greenard, if they get him at the value they want.

Greenard seemed more of an opportunistic DE that a game wrecker. WAJ showed flashes on how he will change a game, but I think most of Greenard's sacks were ones that came to him.

I don't think the drop off is that high between him and a Barnett. He's one where his stats don't really tell his role, based on my recollection.

Texan_Aggie said:

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Greenard seemed more of an opportunistic DE that a game wrecker. WAJ showed flashes on how he will change a game, but I think most of Greenard's sacks were ones that came to him.

I don't think the drop off is that high between him and a Barnett. He's one where his stats don't really tell his role, based on my recollection.

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I agree. And Jadeveon Clowney is a good example here. Who would we rather have, Clowney at 8-9 million for 2 years or Greenard at 18-20 million for the next 3-4 years? I would prefer having Greenard the player for the next 3-4 years, but he's not worth 10 million more a year than a Clowney level player for the next 2 years from a value to production ratio. In 2 years we should be able to groom a replacement in the draft and have him ready to go, helping to kick start the cycle of building out home grown talent.

Just to kind of cap off my thoughts, I personally don't think signing Greenard to a large contract will significantly improve the team's chances for a championship in the near or long term. But, fortunately I don't have to figure that out, that's on Nick and DeMeco and luckily they have better data than any of us.

I suspect we want someone with more size opposite Anderson and flip Anderson to where Greenard is playing. Maybe we also don't think he's worth what he will get paid, but could just be that we're looking at adding different skill sets to the DE rotation.

Even if we sign Greenard, we still need a DE who is more of a run stopper. Wilkins can also line up at DE in certain situations if we get him. So we may not need a big money DE as opposed to a situational pass rusher like Bryce Huff.

Clowney and WAj would probably be the best run defending DE duo in the league.

Jones back to the chiefs for 5 yrs 95 mill

Ags #1 said:

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Jones back to the chiefs for 5 yrs 95 mill

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Did I mishear or aren't they in cap hell? WTF

Several depth re-signings today

#Texans have re-signed defensive tackle Khalil Davis, a valuable rotational piece of defensive line, per a league source @KPRC2

— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL) March 9, 2024

#Texans finalizing one-year, $1.8 million deal now for Desmond King, per league source, with maximum value of $2.2 million @KPRC2

— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL) March 9, 2024

Source: #Texans re-sign corner Kris Boyd to one-year deal @KPRC2 https://t.co/W3vLNGwioo

— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL) March 9, 2024

#Texans have finalized a one-year contract with safety Eric Murray, per a league source @KPRC2 https://t.co/TojzBgTSWx

— Aaron Wilson (@AaronWilson_NFL) March 9, 2024

Ags #1 said:

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Jones back to the chiefs for 5 yrs 95 mill

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Apparently the 05 million is only the guaranteed part and Jones will be the highest paid DT per year. And one article said the guaranteed money will all be in the first 3 years. I have no idea how that contract can work. They will have over 1/3 of their cap number tied up in 2 people. I guess my understanding of goes the salary cap is even lower than I already thought it was.

Sounds like it's basically a 3 year deal, and years 4-5 are there to spread the cap hit. Generally speaking, guaranteed money is spread across the length of the contract for cap purposes, which would make his cap hit $19M ($95M/5) the first few years instead of ~$31.7M ($95M/3).

I'm sure they've done some other stuff so it won't be that cut and dry, but it looks like that's essentially the game they're playing here.

Ryan34 said:

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Sounds like it's basically a 3 year deal, and years 4-5 are there to spread the cap hit. Generally speaking, guaranteed money is spread across the length of the contract for cap purposes, which would make his cap hit $19M ($95M/5) the first few years instead of ~$31.7M ($95M/3).

I'm sure they've done some other stuff so it won't be that cut and dry, but it looks like that's essentially the game they're playing here.

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That's what I thought, but the reason for my confusion was this section I've seen pop up in different articles (like this one): https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/mar/10/chris-jones-kansas-city-chiefs-agree-to-record-breaking-five-year-contract

"The money that is guaranteed is expected to come over the first three years with another two years that are not guaranteed. The deal makes Jones the highest-paid defensive tackle in NFL history."

So they will be able to cut him with no cap issues after the 3rd year, but that would also mean his cap number is astronomical in the first 3 years. I guess we'll find out when full details are released. Just seems very strange

For us, full steam ahead on Christian Wilkins

IrishAg said:

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Ryan34 said:

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Sounds like it's basically a 3 year deal, and years 4-5 are there to spread the cap hit. Generally speaking, guaranteed money is spread across the length of the contract for cap purposes, which would make his cap hit $19M ($95M/5) the first few years instead of ~$31.7M ($95M/3).

I'm sure they've done some other stuff so it won't be that cut and dry, but it looks like that's essentially the game they're playing here.

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That's what I thought, but the reason for my confusion was this section I've seen pop up in different articles (like this one): https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2024/mar/10/chris-jones-kansas-city-chiefs-agree-to-record-breaking-five-year-contract

"The money that is guaranteed is expected to come over the first three years with another two years that are not guaranteed. The deal makes Jones the highest-paid defensive tackle in NFL history."

So they will be able to cut him with no cap issues after the 3rd year, but that would also mean his cap number is astronomical in the first 3 years. I guess we'll find out when full details are released. Just seems very strange

For us, full steam ahead on Christian Wilkins

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I think you misunderstood what I wrote. Generally speaking, a player's total cap hit is the unguaranteed base salary plus the prorated guaranteed money. In Jones's case, his prorated guaranteed money is $19M per year if we keep it simple (his contract is likely anything but simple in reality, but this is just message board talk).

Since his first 3 years are guaranteed with no unguaranteed base, his cap hit would be just $19M. But in years 4 and 5, Jones's total cap hit is $19M + ~$35M (or whatever his unguaranteed base salary will be to get him up to the highest in history). If they cut him in year 4, the dead cap hit would be $38M (remaining prorated guaranteed $). So they'll probably convert some base salary to a bonus to spread the cap hit to year 5, then cut him year 5. Or extend him in year 4 to effectively do the same (spread cap hit further).

His contract is a nice reminder that the salary cap in the NFL is a myth. Teams routinely spend more in actual $ than the cap because they can prorate some of it to future years and count on cap increases. Also part of why Deshaun Watson's contract was so stupid. Making it 100% guaranteed gave Cleveland no flexibility to play some of the salary cap games that the good teams (like KC) do.

All aboard the Wilkins train. He's the one I've wanted most from the start.

Ok, in really really weird news for one of our rival teams: https://www.si.com/nfl/texans/news/breaking-patriots-trade-qb-mac-jones-to-houston-texans-afc-south-rival-nfl-tracker

The Patriots traded Mac Jones to the Jaguars. I guess the Patriots are really going all in on drafting a QB now.

Yeah, that salary cap wizardy with numbers gets really messed, I should stop trying to guess.

Hope we can get Wilkins for less than Jones, but probably not.,

Texans added a NT from Jacksonville. 1 year deal. Good start.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39702022/texans-reach-deal-ex-jaguars-dt-folorunso-fatukasi-source-says

Ryan34 said:

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Texans added a NT from Jacksonville. 1 year deal. Good start.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/39702022/texans-reach-deal-ex-jaguars-dt-folorunso-fatukasi-source-says

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That's a sneaky good signing with a player who knows and has done well in this defense.

Love this signing!