Is Brady or Belichick The GOAT?

3,198 Views | 26 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by paperback
Aggie_Brad
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So was Belichick riding Brady's coattail all these years? I know Belichick has the skins but would he if he didn't have Brady? Seems Brady is able to thrive w/o the grumpy one.
MookieBlaylock
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Not even worthy of discussion



BBQ4Me
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Both are GOATs at their respective positions
ironmanag
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Remains to be seen but right now you have to give the edge to Brady.
According to the Biden White House, what Joe Biden says does not represent the official position of the Biden administration.
rangerdanger
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Ponder this. Brady enticed Gronk out of retirement, fought to pull Fournette off the waivers, and had Mr. Big Chest living in his home. Who did all the TDs go to tonight?

Dude is a genius at personnel decisions.
Bunk Moreland
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Both are GOATS.

Bill doesn't have the ability to pick a new team with a much better roster to hop over to and then also add more pieces to and make a run.
MookieBlaylock
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Bill has had complete control for 20 years

Their personal is terrible
Every coach from the bellicheck tree is terrible when promoted
Bellicheck cheated to beat the rams
He was awful with the browns
Brady made bellicheck
Ag_07
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I don't know about all that

He's worked some kind of magic when Brady was injured. Matt Cassel won them a lot of games and even Jacoby Brissett. IIRC they didn't miss a beat when Brady was suspended for deflate gate.

I'm going with they're both GOATS.
MookieBlaylock
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Look at their current roster
Brady won.a super bowl with that sorry lot of rbs and Wrs

Tom took a 6 and 10 team and won a super bowl

Brady is the Patriots dynasty

Iraq2xVeteran
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I believe Bill Belichick might be the greatest coach in NFL history, and Tom Brady is definitely the greatest quarterback of all time. Even with Brady's knee injury in the 1st game of the 2008 season, the defining AFC Champion New England Patriots finished 11-5 and just missed the last playoff spot. When Brady was suspended for the first 4 game of 2016, the Patriots went 3-1.

In Bruce Arian's first season, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers finished 7-9. It's incredible how the Tampa Bay Buccaneers lost to the Kansas City Chiefs 27-24 in the Week 12 to drop to 7-5 before a Week 13 bye. Since that very late bye week, they have won 8 straight games (4 regular season games and 4 playoff games) in route to winning the Super Bowl. That winning streak included 3 straight road playoff wins at Washington, New Orleans, and Green Bay to become the first NFL team to play the Super Bowl at home and then a 31-9 rout of the defending Super Bowl Champion Kansas City Chiefs.

Tom Brady has won his 7th Super Bowl title, more than any NFL team in history. His previous six were with the Patriots, who sit tied with the Steelers with six all-time Super Bowls. That's the most any team has won in league history.
DannyDuberstein
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Belichick is the best defensive coach in the history of the game. But they won 6 titles because of Brady

As a HC, Belichick has 2 winning seasons out of 8 without Brady. Out of 1 season out of 1 without Belichick, Brady took a losing team to a SB title. This is an easy call.
Iowaggie
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It did make me wonder if Bruce Arians had Brady all these years, how many Super Bowls does he win?

But that could be said about a lot of great coaches.
Great coaches had great players, but also great coaches helped develop those players to be great.


Both are lucky they didn't end up in Detroit and for Bill, that he got out of Cleveland.
Sparkie
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Ag_07 said:

I don't know about all that

He's worked some kind of magic when Brady was injured. Matt Cassel won them a lot of games and even Jacoby Brissett. IIRC they didn't miss a beat when Brady was suspended for deflate gate.

I'm going with they're both GOATS.


Matt playing well is a misconception. Matt won 60% on the number of games Brady did the previous year. I wouldn't call a 40% drop off working magic.
Bregxit
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Sparkie said:

Ag_07 said:

I don't know about all that

He's worked some kind of magic when Brady was injured. Matt Cassel won them a lot of games and even Jacoby Brissett. IIRC they didn't miss a beat when Brady was suspended for deflate gate.

I'm going with they're both GOATS.


Matt playing well is a misconception. Matt won 60% on the number of games Brady did the previous year. I wouldn't call a 40% drop off working magic.


Is this a troll?
Iowaggie
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Not sure it is troll or not, but that year, the AFC East got to play against a pitiful NFC West & AFC West. Every team in the AFC East that year feasted on that schedule. The Bills that year went 0-6 within the division, and 7-3 outside the division, with a 6-2 record against the AFC/NFC West.

Not a single team in the AFC West or NFC West that year had a winning record outside the division.

The NFC West champ (Arizona) went 3-7 outside the division (6-0 within), with 2 of those wins against bad AFC East opponents.
The AFC West champ (SD Chargers) also went 3-7 outside the division, and ended up the season at 8-8.



Iowaggie
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From that thread


It's too bad they didn't score one more point against the Saints
Saint Pablo
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MookieBlaylock said:

Look at their current roster
Brady won.a super bowl with that sorry lot of rbs and Wrs

Tom took a 6 and 10 team and won a super bowl

Brady is the Patriots dynasty


This just isn't accurate. The last SB Brady won they had Phillip Dorsett, Chris Hogan, Cordarelle Patterson, and Gronk. That year they won largely because of how dominant their defense was...they only gave up 3 points in the Super Bowl.

Since that SB, Kyle Van Noy, Trent Brown, Malcolm Brown, Trey Flowers, Adrian Clayborn, Philip Dorsett, Chris Hogan, Cordarelle Patterson, and Gronk have all left.

This year, Donta Hightower, Patrick Chung, Marcus Cannon, and four other dudes opted out because of COVID. Cam Newton clearly was washed and that bet didn't payoff. Edelman was hurt, Michel was hurt, Rex Burkhead got hurt.

Y'all saying Brady made Bilicheck are forgetting about the years Cassel, Jimmy G, and Brissett excelled for him. I would give it some more time and wait until he is able to build around someone better than the current version of Cam.
DannyDuberstein
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2 winning seasons without Brady. Out of 8. And that can't all be blamed on Cleveland. 1 for 3 in NE. 1 for 5 in Cle. He's a GOAT level defensive coach but Brady is the overall GOAT that made the engine go

One has won a title without the other, the other hasn't. The choice is basically academic until Belichick proves otherwise
Saint Pablo
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DannyDuberstein said:

2 winning seasons without Brady. Out of 8. And that can't all be blamed on Cleveland. 1 for 3 in NE. 1 for 5 in Cle. He's a GOAT level defensive coach but Brady is the overall GOAT that made the engine go

One has won a title without the other, the other hasn't. The choice is basically academic until Belichick proves otherwise
In NE, the first losing season was in his first year as a head coach and his second was this past year with a Cam Newton who is clearly no longer capable of being a starting quarterback in the league anymore. Using his time in Cleveland to measure him is odd to me considering since his time there (his last year in CLE was in 1995) the franchise has had exactly 3 seasons that ended in winning records and one of those years they didn't even make the playoffs.

Belichick has two titles as a DC without Brady.

I think that they deserve close to equal credit for the Patriots' dynasty. The argument could be made that without Belichick's coaching, Brady wouldn't have had the mental tools to achieve the success that he did.

At the end of the day, I would give Brady a slight edge over Belichick, but it seems like some posters here are ready to act like Belichick was just some bum TB dragged to the SB 9 times.
DannyDuberstein
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The new Cle franchise has been a joke. The one Belichick coached was old one that had a lot of success with Schottenheimer but couldn't get past Denver in the championship game. It was bad in 1990 but had 5 straight winning seasons averaging 10 wins a year with 2 championship game appearances prior to that. Schottenheimer was better than Belichick there. Much better.

Your "bum" comment is a total strawman. That was certainly not my statement multiple times
Saint Pablo
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DannyDuberstein said:

The new Cle franchise has been a joke. The one Belichick coached was old one that had a lot of success with Schottenheimer but couldn't get past Denver in the championship game. It was bad in 1990 but had 5 straight winning seasons averaging 10 wins a year with 2 championship game appearances prior to that. Schottenheimer was better than Belichick there. Much better.

Your "bum" comment is a total strawman. That was certainly not my statement multiple times
No, I know you weren't making the "bum" argument, but it looks like some posters are making such assertions, whether or not they are in jest idk
DannyDuberstein
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Well, you can't pretend Cleveland was a joke where no one can win when Schottenheimer was literally just doing it right before Belichick
Bobby Petrino`s Neckbrace
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Speaking of Schottenheimer, he died yesterday. (Alzheimer's)

Sparkie
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Bregxit said:

Sparkie said:

Ag_07 said:

I don't know about all that

He's worked some kind of magic when Brady was injured. Matt Cassel won them a lot of games and even Jacoby Brissett. IIRC they didn't miss a beat when Brady was suspended for deflate gate.

I'm going with they're both GOATS.


Matt playing well is a misconception. Matt won 60% on the number of games Brady did the previous year. I wouldn't call a 40% drop off working magic.


Is this a troll?


It was a tongue and cheek reply. Thought you were trolling with the magic / Cassel comment.

There have been rumors for years on how the Pat's coaching staff viewed Brady. In private, the coaches thought of Brady as average. And, they had they ability to win with a mediocre qb. If true, they will get their chance.

Interesting to see if Belichic keeps going retreads or drafts a qb.
LB12Diamond
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The one thing I now understand clearly is it was Brady that made the Patriots culture of team first. You would see players that it was all about me me me go there and become team players such as Moss, Etc.

He did the same thing at Tamps Bay. Look at Antonio Brown among others on that team. Look at Evans now. Not that Evans was a me guy but him taking a pay cut to keep team together. Where do you think he got that idea, maybe Brady.

This of course makes more since, the players being team first due to a teammate leading that effort rather than a coach. Much easier for them to listen and a respect a player!
PatAg
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DannyDuberstein said:

2 winning seasons without Brady. Out of 8. And that can't all be blamed on Cleveland. 1 for 3 in NE. 1 for 5 in Cle. He's a GOAT level defensive coach but Brady is the overall GOAT that made the engine go

One has won a title without the other, the other hasn't. The choice is basically academic until Belichick proves otherwise
How many seasons had Brady played without Bill?
BBQ4Me
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It was Belicheck's culture. What made it work is that the best player and captain (Brady) bought into it and served as an example for others
paperback
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Bunk Moreland said:

Both are GOATS.

Bill doesn't have the ability to pick a new team with a much better roster to hop over to and then also add more pieces to and make a run.
I agree. I think they are a rare combination. Right now, Brady is looking pretty good though. I don't think you can find two men more dedicated to their professions.
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