Kellso said:

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gigem1223 said:

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I mean there are very few QBs with better careers than the likes of Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Drew Brees and Aaron Rodgers. Romo was a great QB in his own right, he just had the unfortune of playing with some of the greatest ever.

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well.....then that means he is not a hall of famer.

HOF means you are the best of the best.....not pretty good.

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I'm not saying Romo is HOF worthy but there are several QBs in the hall currently that couldn't hold a candle to those 4 Romo had to play with.

Tony Romo is Danny White 2.0.

HOF for Choking?
1st ballot

Danny White was the choker, not Romo.

Aggie said:

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98Ag99Grad said:

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Ring of honor yes. HOF no. If he catches that snap in Seattle and Crayton catches that pass against NYG maybe his career is completely different, who knows. But for a UFA, helluva career and doesn't get near the respect he should IMO.

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I don't even think he is ring of honor

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You can't be serious?

Romo a Hall of Famer? Is this a serious question?! Cowboys fans are so delusional.

He and Witten will be the ROH guys from the past 20 years.

Kellso said:

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Southlake said:

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bigjag19 said:

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I would select him over Eli.

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He sure was more dynamic, but Eli has 2 Skins on the wall.

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Horrible argument. Romo never played with a defense like Eli had.

The New York Giants Defense won them two super bowls (giving up a combined 24 points in two games) not Eli Manning.

The Giants scored 31 points in two Super Bowl victories and for some reason Eli's mediocre ass gets ALL the credit for those two wins.

Tony Romo has something like 6-8 seasons better than Eli's best regular season performance.

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In 2007, the New York Giants won 3 straight road playoff games just to reach the Super Bowl. Then, they stunned the then 18-0 New England Patriots 17-14 to prevent the New England Patriots from becoming the first ever NFL team to go 19-0 and win the Super Bowl.

4 years later, the Giants defeated the Patriots 21-17. So the Giants scored 38 combined points and allowed 31 combined points in those two Super Bowl wins over the New England Patriots. But I agree with the rest of your post. Eli Manning gets credit for 5 road playoff wins (3 in 2007 and 2 in 2011), but besides the two 4-0 Super Bowl runs, Eli Manning was one and done in the playoffs (2005, 2006, 2008, 2016).

Old Tom Morris said:

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He and Witten will be the ROH guys from the past 20 years.

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Add Tyron Smith, Zach Martin and maybe Demarcus Ware to that list.

Old Tom Morris said:

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He and Witten will be the ROH guys from the past 20 years.

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Demarcus Ware....

Aggie said:

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98Ag99Grad said:

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Ring of honor yes. HOF no. If he catches that snap in Seattle and Crayton catches that pass against NYG maybe his career is completely different, who knows. But for a UFA, helluva career and doesn't get near the respect he should IMO.

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I don't even think he is ring of honor

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He holds every Dallas passing record- yards, TDs, QBR... slam dunk bro.

In my opinion, that is not accurate. The Giants defense was all world, but Eli in the last two minutes of those Super Bowls was Hall of Fame worthy.

And for what it's worth, I'm a Giants Homer and I don't think Eli should be in the Hall of Fame.

Defense was amazing, but Eli was amazing as well, and no one can deny that. I have a love/hate relationship with Eli, but the fact is he won 2 Super Bowls. And as a Giant fan, I will always think well of Eli.

And from the replays, it sure appears that it was the offense that won the Giants Super Bowls in the last two minutes.

Romo put up some amazing stats...but Alex Rodriquez did as well when the Rangers were down by 10

If there is a place in the Hall of Fame for Jerry Jones and George Allen, surely there can be a place for Tony Romo?

Phillip Rivers was better than Eli Manning.
I would rank them Rivers, Romo, Manning.

Neither of these three deserve to be in the Hall of Fame.

I've always felt that Eli was nothing more than a pretty good quarterback who Trent Dilfered himself into two Super Bowl Victories.
I wouldn't be so hard on Eli if he had a Nick Foles sort of performance in the Super Bowl.
If Eli had won by:
-Scoring 41 points
-Outdueling the GOAT (at his best) who sets a post season record of 505 yards
-Opposing team scores 33 points
-Followed it up with continued post season winning

That not at all what happened to Eli and the New York Giants.
The Giants defense clearly won both of those Super Bowls by only giving up 17 and 14 points respectively.

The giants total amount of points scored in two games with Eli was 38 points. That is not HOF worthy to make up for an otherwise mediocre career. The Giants have not won a playoff game since 2011.

Deep down this is the reason so many people attempt to give Eli all of the credit for the Giants Super Bowl Victory.

A lot of people realize his regular season stats, and accomplishments do not stack up.
If this guys name was Eli Jones there is no way anyone would think he was worthy of the Hall of Fame.

Eli highest passer rating was 93.6 in 2015. Tony Romo has 7 seasons higher than that. Romo only had two seasons lower than 93.6

Romo is not a hall of famer, and he was clearly better than Eli Manning.

Aggie said:

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98Ag99Grad said:

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Ring of honor yes. HOF no. If he catches that snap in Seattle and Crayton catches that pass against NYG maybe his career is completely different, who knows. But for a UFA, helluva career and doesn't get near the respect he should IMO.

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I don't even think he is ring of honor

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If Dak ever leads the Cowboys to the NFC title game, or Super Bowl I don't see any reason why Romo should be in the Ring of Honor.

If Romo gets in then you have to let in Danny White.

I would disagree with that. Danny put together maybe 4 full seasons as a starter, along with a handful of other interrupted seasons. Romo at least had most of a decade of being the guy. Some of his were interrupted too, but I think he played twice as many full seasons as Danny.

Old Tom Morris said:

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I would disagree with that. Danny put together maybe 4 full seasons as a starter, along with a handful of other interrupted seasons. Romo at least had most of a decade of being the guy. Some of his were interrupted too, but I think he played twice as many full seasons as Danny.

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Im generally a defender of Tony Romo.....but I always feel like he has his supporters and fans that take it too far.

I've never understood the idea that Romo was this vastly superior quarterback to Danny White. As someone else mentioned I always saw Tony Romo as Danny White 2.0

Danny White put up monster numbers, and if he played in the same era as Romo Im sure his numbers would be similar, if not greater. Romo's franchise records mean little to me without the post season wins to back it up.

Danny White was 5-5 in the post season. Tony Romo was 2-4.

White accomplished two (significant) things that I've always held against Tony Romo:
1. Danny White won a post season game on the road helping the 1980 Cowboys beat Atlanta 30-27.
His state line was 25-39 322 yards. 3 touchdowns 1 interception and a 104.9 passer rating

2. Danny White led to the Cowboys to 3 NFC Title game, including winning the aforementioned 1980 Divisional game in Atlanta. Romo never led the Cowboys to a single NFC title game

Danny White's Cowboys teams from 1980-83 blow away anything Romo ever did with the Cowboys
1980: 12-4 Lost in NFC Title Game
1981: 12-4 Lost in NFC Title Game
1982: 6-3 Lost in NFC Title Game
1983: 12-4 lost in Divisional

This was back when Cowboys-Redskins was the #1 rivalry in the entire NFL.
In many years the Redskins would go 13-3 or 14-2, and one of their only losses would be to Dallas.

Danny White entire legacy would be different if the Cowboys had won just one of those NFC title games, and made it to the Super Bowl.
I personally think Dak Prescott will eventually be seen as a superior quarterback to Tony Romo.

I think Danny was a very good qb and I don't think Romo was vastly superior skillset relative to skillset. My point is simply that part of being ROH worthy is doing the job for a long enough time. Danny's window was so short

sidenote...those 1979, 1980, 1981 Cowboys-Eagles games were pretty awesome.

(as the Eagles finally got good in those years)

The NFL Network did a show several years ago ranking the ten greatest Dallas Cowboys. Don Meredith came in at number nine. I recently watched it again. To my surprise (or maybe I shouldn't have been), Tony Romo is now ranked at number nine. Meredith did far more in his career than Rome could ever dream of.

robcovol said:

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The NFL Network did a show several years ago ranking the ten greatest Dallas Cowboys. Don Meredith came in at number nine. I recently watched it again. To my surprise (or maybe I shouldn't have been), Tony Romo is now ranked at number nine. Meredith did far more in his career than Rome could ever dream of.

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No.

No. Ring of Honor, yes, HOF, no way in hell.

Jason Witten caught his first post-season TD pass from Dak, think about that.

If Romo was on another team and took over for a marginal QB and had that same career in Houston, Miami, Charlotte, Cincinnati, and had the same W-L, stats, etc. it would not even be a question. But because it was the Dallas Cowboys and he brought them out of the cellar to being marginally competitive with a a decent team for a few seasons, he gets extra credit.

And IMHO he is a terrible announcer.

Sidebar, there is something really wrong with the industry when a commentator, play-by-play or color guy, gets paid more to talk about the game than most of the players get paid to play the game.....

Hall of Fame not Hall of Good Stats.

Nobody gives Eli sole credit for those Super Bowls, but he came through when it mattered twice, won 2 Super Bowl MVP's and was great in those 2 runs. He did it over possibly the greatest team of all time twice including their undefeated seasons. Really... it's willful ignorance not to acknowledge at least his postseason accomplishments are pretty unassailable... that's a HOF QB's postseason resume. If Romo did that just once let alone twice with his resume... no question you'd say he's a HOF-er.

Regular season sure... looks pretty mediocre. However, then consider he was pretty much an iron man for 14.5 seasons never missing a game... I think it is fair to say he had a more complete career than Romo and I'd argue Rivers too considering he did have 2 exceptions postseason runs.

With Eli everybody says oh he gets the NY shine on him and he wouldn't even be talked about in another city but that's bull***** If anything, being in NY has detracted from his resume accomplishments and contributions as a QB. Can you imagine if he did all of that for let's say Cincinnati or Detroit? Hell he came in around when the Texans started more or less. If he was a franchise QB for the Texans for that long and won 2 Super Bowls for him. The narrative would be he made the franchise relevant and not a zero and is a shoe in hall of famer. Not in NY though where so much else is going on.

ATM9000 said:

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Hall of Fame not Hall of Good Stats.

Nobody gives Eli sole credit for those Super Bowls, but he came through when it mattered twice, won 2 Super Bowl MVP's and was great in those 2 runs. He did it over possibly the greatest team of all time twice including their undefeated seasons. Really... it's willful ignorance not to acknowledge at least his postseason accomplishments are pretty unassailable... that's a HOF QB's postseason resume. If Romo did that just once let alone twice with his resume... no question you'd say he's a HOF-er.

Regular season sure... looks pretty mediocre. However, then consider he was pretty much an iron man for 14.5 seasons never missing a game... I think it is fair to say he had a more complete career than Romo and I'd argue Rivers too considering he did have 2 exceptions postseason runs.

With Eli everybody says oh he gets the NY shine on him and he wouldn't even be talked about in another city but that's bull***** If anything, being in NY has detracted from his resume accomplishments and contributions as a QB. Can you imagine if he did all of that for let's say Cincinnati or Detroit? Hell he came in around when the Texans started more or less. If he was a franchise QB for the Texans for that long and won 2 Super Bowls for him. The narrative would be he made the franchise relevant and not a zero and is a shoe in hall of famer. Not in NY though where so much else is going on.

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Eli Manning was never remotely close to being a Hall of Fame caliber player....ever. Eli was never one of the premier Quarterbacks in the NFL.
He never made All Pro.

I'm not ignorant at all about Eli's career, or the politics that you are attempting right now to justify his undeserved consideration into the Hall of Fame.

Every Eli defender essentially says the same thing........which is that we have to make up some special rules for Eli's candidacy.

These special rules dictate that we ignore 18 years of Eli Manning's fairly mediocre career, and then only focus on 2007 and 2011.

In these two Super Bowls the Giants DEFENSE defeated the GOAT by limiting the Patriots to 14 and 17 points respectively.

Eli leads the giants to 17 and 21 points....and subsequently gets the lionshare of the credit for those victories.
That's how the NFL works. It is marketed to hype up quarterbacks over every other position.

Like I mentioned in my previous post....the reason posters like you give Eli all the credit for those Super Bowls is that deep down you know he would have no other arguments whatsoever for the Hall of Fame.

I could give Eli all the credit for those Super Bowls if he beat Brady in a shootout...ala Nick Foles. The Giants defense won both of those Super Bowls.
In most Super Bowls you would lose if you only led your team to 17 and 21 points in two different games.

I don't care about the strawmen you mentioned in the rest of your post. If this happened...if he played here....if he wasn't in New York, if his last name wasn't Manning....blah blah blah
My definition of a Hall of Fame player is someone that was the best of the best. PERIOD.

Eli Manning, Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers do not qualify.

Kellso said:

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ATM9000 said:

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Hall of Fame not Hall of Good Stats.

Nobody gives Eli sole credit for those Super Bowls, but he came through when it mattered twice, won 2 Super Bowl MVP's and was great in those 2 runs. He did it over possibly the greatest team of all time twice including their undefeated seasons. Really... it's willful ignorance not to acknowledge at least his postseason accomplishments are pretty unassailable... that's a HOF QB's postseason resume. If Romo did that just once let alone twice with his resume... no question you'd say he's a HOF-er.

Regular season sure... looks pretty mediocre. However, then consider he was pretty much an iron man for 14.5 seasons never missing a game... I think it is fair to say he had a more complete career than Romo and I'd argue Rivers too considering he did have 2 exceptions postseason runs.

With Eli everybody says oh he gets the NY shine on him and he wouldn't even be talked about in another city but that's bull***** If anything, being in NY has detracted from his resume accomplishments and contributions as a QB. Can you imagine if he did all of that for let's say Cincinnati or Detroit? Hell he came in around when the Texans started more or less. If he was a franchise QB for the Texans for that long and won 2 Super Bowls for him. The narrative would be he made the franchise relevant and not a zero and is a shoe in hall of famer. Not in NY though where so much else is going on.

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Eli Manning was never remotely close to being a Hall of Fame caliber player....ever. Eli was never one of the premier Quarterbacks in the NFL.
He never made All Pro.

I'm not ignorant at all about Eli's career, or the politics that you are attempting right now to justify his undeserved consideration into the Hall of Fame.

Every Eli defender essentially says the same thing........which is that we have to make up some special rules for Eli's candidacy.

These special rules dictate that we ignore 18 years of Eli Manning's fairly mediocre career, and then only focus on 2007 and 2011.

In these two Super Bowls the Giants DEFENSE defeated the GOAT by limiting the Patriots to 14 and 17 points respectively.

Eli leads the giants to 17 and 21 points....and subsequently gets the lionshare of the credit for those victories.
That's how the NFL works. It is marketed to hype up quarterbacks over every other position.

Like I mentioned in my previous post....the reason posters like you give Eli all the credit for those Super Bowls is that deep down you know he would have no other arguments whatsoever for the Hall of Fame.

I could give Eli all the credit for those Super Bowls if he beat Brady in a shootout...ala Nick Foles. The Giants defense won both of those Super Bowls.
In most Super Bowls you would lose if you only led your team to 17 and 21 points in two different games.

I don't care about the strawmen you mentioned in the rest of your post. If this happened...if he played here....if he wasn't in New York, if his last name wasn't Manning....blah blah blah
My definition of a Hall of Fame player is someone that was the best of the best. PERIOD.

Eli Manning, Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers do not qualify.

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Politics that I'm attempting? The hell are you smoking?

Putting aside his 2 SB MVP's and postseason success, the sheer fact that Eli had a 16 year career and starter for all but a season and a half of them is proof that his career wasn't in fact a mediocre one.

ATM9000 said:

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Kellso said:

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ATM9000 said:

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Hall of Fame not Hall of Good Stats.

Nobody gives Eli sole credit for those Super Bowls, but he came through when it mattered twice, won 2 Super Bowl MVP's and was great in those 2 runs. He did it over possibly the greatest team of all time twice including their undefeated seasons. Really... it's willful ignorance not to acknowledge at least his postseason accomplishments are pretty unassailable... that's a HOF QB's postseason resume. If Romo did that just once let alone twice with his resume... no question you'd say he's a HOF-er.

Regular season sure... looks pretty mediocre. However, then consider he was pretty much an iron man for 14.5 seasons never missing a game... I think it is fair to say he had a more complete career than Romo and I'd argue Rivers too considering he did have 2 exceptions postseason runs.

With Eli everybody says oh he gets the NY shine on him and he wouldn't even be talked about in another city but that's bull***** If anything, being in NY has detracted from his resume accomplishments and contributions as a QB. Can you imagine if he did all of that for let's say Cincinnati or Detroit? Hell he came in around when the Texans started more or less. If he was a franchise QB for the Texans for that long and won 2 Super Bowls for him. The narrative would be he made the franchise relevant and not a zero and is a shoe in hall of famer. Not in NY though where so much else is going on.

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Eli Manning was never remotely close to being a Hall of Fame caliber player....ever. Eli was never one of the premier Quarterbacks in the NFL.
He never made All Pro.

I'm not ignorant at all about Eli's career, or the politics that you are attempting right now to justify his undeserved consideration into the Hall of Fame.

Every Eli defender essentially says the same thing........which is that we have to make up some special rules for Eli's candidacy.

These special rules dictate that we ignore 18 years of Eli Manning's fairly mediocre career, and then only focus on 2007 and 2011.

In these two Super Bowls the Giants DEFENSE defeated the GOAT by limiting the Patriots to 14 and 17 points respectively.

Eli leads the giants to 17 and 21 points....and subsequently gets the lionshare of the credit for those victories.
That's how the NFL works. It is marketed to hype up quarterbacks over every other position.

Like I mentioned in my previous post....the reason posters like you give Eli all the credit for those Super Bowls is that deep down you know he would have no other arguments whatsoever for the Hall of Fame.

I could give Eli all the credit for those Super Bowls if he beat Brady in a shootout...ala Nick Foles. The Giants defense won both of those Super Bowls.
In most Super Bowls you would lose if you only led your team to 17 and 21 points in two different games.

I don't care about the strawmen you mentioned in the rest of your post. If this happened...if he played here....if he wasn't in New York, if his last name wasn't Manning....blah blah blah
My definition of a Hall of Fame player is someone that was the best of the best. PERIOD.

Eli Manning, Tony Romo and Phillip Rivers do not qualify.

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Politics that I'm attempting? The hell are you smoking?

Putting aside his 2 SB MVP's and postseason success, the sheer fact that Eli had a 16 year career and starter for all but a season and a half of them is proof that his career wasn't in fact a mediocre one.

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Okay.....I'm putting aside 2007 and 2011.

What was exceptional about Eli's career? That he showed up to work everyday?

Name me the year that he was named All Pro? If someone never makes all pro...then how in the world can they be a Hall of Famer?

In 16 years how many seasons (4) did he lead the Giants to more than 11 wins?
How many seasons (4) did Eli lead the NFL in interceptions?
How many non winning seasons (9) did Eli lead the Giants to?

If Aaron Rodgers had not won the Super Bowl 10 years ago he would still be a hall of famer based on his insane stats, and obvious arm talent.
Same thing goes for pre Super Bowl Champion Peyton Manning, or Dan Marino.

I consider guys like Rothlisberger, Russell Wilson, and Rodgers to be Hall of Famers.....not for the Super Bowl victories, but for the fact it seems like their teams are winning 10-12 games every year, and going deep in the post season.
Their stats and team success back up their candidacy.

Eli does not have the stats....and doesn't really have the team success either. The Giants defense made a 9-7 and 10-6 team Super Bowl Champions.....Not Eli Manning.

People like you want to give Eli all the credit for those victories but I'll take the contrarian view.

If a true Hall of Fame caliber quarterback like Payton, Aaron Rodgers or Russel Wilson was leading the Giants and had the benefit of that defense those teams would have been 13-3 or 14-2.

A real Hall of Fame caliber quarterback would have had sustained success instead of dropping off. If you don't sustain the success it gives credence to my assertion that the defense won the Giants those two titles.

Once those defensive stars left the Giants they stopped being any good. Eli was still the quarterback when he was leading the Giants to all of those losing seasons the past 10 years.

I agree with all of those points, but because Eli Manning led game winning drives against the New England Patriots in 2 Super Bowls, he won 2 Super Bowl MVPs. That alone would put him in the Hall of Fame, despite his mostly mediocre stats. For his career, he completed just 60.29% of his passes for 57,023 yards, 366 touchdowns, and 244 interceptions. That is a 3 to 2 touchdown to interception ratio.

Outside of the two 4-0 Super Bowl runs in 2007 and 2011, Eli Manning went one and out in the playoffs (2005, 2006, 2008, and 2016). That included home playoff loses in 2005 Wildcard and a 2008 Divisional Playoffs games by 12+ points each. In 2006, the New York Giants snuck into the playoffs with an 8-8 record and posted two other winning seasons in which they missed the playoffs (10-6 in 2010 and 9-7 in 2012).

In 5 of Eli Manning's last 6 full seasons (2013 to 2018), the Giants finished with losing records and played for 3 full-time coaches and one interim coach. After the Giants fired Tom Coughlin in 2016, they hired Ben McAdoo, who was fired after a 2-10 start in 2017. Then, Pat Shurmur went 5-11 in Eli Manning's last full season in 2018. After an 0-2 start in 2019, Pat Shurmur decided to replace Eli Manning with Daniel Jones, and the Giants finished 4-12 before Shurmur was fired.

Panama Red said:

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I agree with all those points as to why Eli is not a HOFer.

But here's the more salient question: Is he going to be in the HOF? I think the answer is yes.

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Remains to be seen.

It seems likes it 50/50.

On one side you have the New York Media + Manning Lovers...on the other side you have people like me that just never thought Eli was any good.

What is interesting is that there are Hall of Famers that are already actively campaigning against Eli Manning because they think it will tarnish the Hall of Fame.

Eli in the HOF is a better discussion than Romo, but all the same arguments except one work against Eli. He was never close to being the best QB in the league. Any of a dozen QBs could have done what he did with the Giants during their superbowl runs. Maybe not the last second heroics, but all the QBs better than him wouldn't have needed the last minute heroics. Because they would have scored over 20 points and been leading already.

The Super Bowl MVP argument is tired. QBs are the default unless someone else single-handedly wins the game. Since the Giants' win was a team effort on defense, there was no singular defender to give the MVP. They had to give it to someone, so congrats Eli

MookieBlaylock said:

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He is more annoying than Collins as a colour guy

His amazement over the difficulty of a 1 yard pass was laughably bad yesterday

He was an above average QB that choked in the playoffs

Not a hall of famer

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Regardless of Romo, I think I've found a shoe in for tbe Hall of FLAMERS