Kaepernick

8,231 Views | 102 Replies | Last: 3 yr ago by stallion6
hph6203
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I'm going to reiterate that I didn't care that Kaepernick kneeled during the national anthem. What I will say is that believing he shouldn't kneel during the anthem does not make a person racist, it doesn't mean you don't believe that police brutality is wrong, it just means you think kneeling during the anthem is wrong. He turned a clear and concise message that a lot of people would agree with and turned it into a muddled mess of whether or not police brutality is okay, whether or not it's okay to kneel during the anthem in protest of police brutality, and whether or not there's any reason it's okay to kneel during the anthem.

And let me remind you that Kaepernick did not JUST kneel during the anthem.


Kaepernick after the first game he sat
Quote:

"I am not going to stand up to show pride in a flag for a country that oppresses Black people and people of color. To me, this is bigger than football and it would be selfish on my part to look the other way. There are bodies in the street and people getting paid leave and getting away with murder.

"This is not something that I am going to run by anybody," he said. "I am not looking for approval. I have to stand up for people that are oppressed. If they take football away, my endorsements from me, I know that I stood up for what is right."


Nate Boyer:
Quote:

I'm not judging you for standing up for what you believe in. It's your inalienable right. What you are doing takes a lot of courage, and I'd be lying if I said I knew what it was like to walk around in your shoes. I've never had to deal with prejudice because of the color of my skin, and for me to say I can relate to what you've gone through is as ignorant as someone who's never been in a combat zone telling me they understand what it's like to go to war.

Even though my initial reaction to your protest was one of anger, I'm trying to listen to what you're saying and why you're doing it. When I told my mom about this article, she cautioned me that "the last thing our country needed right now was more hate." As usual, she's right.


And I'll point out to you that despite Nate Boyer suggesting kneeling instead of standing. 1) the die was already cast by the time Kaepernick changed his tactics, people saw who he was before he went to kneeling. And 2) Nate Boyer only speaks for Nate Boyer. It's like people saying the Target CEO said it was okay to destroy his store and they'd rebuild and used that for justification for rioting. Target can be okay with it, that doesn't mean everyone has to be.

Kaepernick:
Quote:

"How can you stand for the national anthem of a nation that preaches and propagates, 'freedom and justice for all,' that is so unjust to so many of the people living there?"


Praised Fidel Castro: https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2677957-colin-kaepernick-praises-fidel-castro-comments-on-support-of-malcolm-x

And wore socks with pigs dressed as cops.


Kaepernick was under the impression that he could anger people into agreement, and he was wrong. It's why we have a Martin Luther King holiday and don't have a nationally recognized Huey P Newton or Malcolm X holiday. Two of those three were fueled by anger and separatism, one focused on building community and being a mechanism for change and inclusion.

To many people the flag represents the American ideal. What we're striving for and what we're never going to achieve. When he kneels and says the things he says he's absolutely giving the impression that he doesn't value those ideals.

lobopride
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I hate this new America where differences of opinion aren't allowed. Brees has an opinion until he felt the heat. He has lived a life on a pedestal and is used to people fawning over him so the blowback was eye opening for him.
caleblyn
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"But understand this, that in the last days there will come times of difficulty. For people will be lovers of self, lovers of money, proud, arrogant, abusive, disobedient to their parents, ungrateful, unholy, heartless, unappeasable, slanderous, without self-control, brutal, not loving good, treacherous, reckless, swollen with conceit, lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God, having the appearance of godliness, but denying its power. Avoid such people."
2 Timothy 3:1-5 ESV

How many of those can be checked off in the last week?
Ag Natural
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Mahomes could take a dump on the flag and every team in the league would still sign him.

If you are a marginal player then teams dont want drama. It's the same reason Tebow wasnt signed anywhere.
Macarthur
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hph6203 said:

I'm going to reiterate that I didn't care that Kaepernick kneeled during the national anthem. What I will say is that believing he shouldn't kneel during the anthem does not make a person racist, it doesn't mean you don't believe that police brutality is wrong, it just means you think kneeling during the anthem is wrong.

I think there's a bit of over sensitivity here. I'm sure you can find an example here and there because there are nuts on both sides of issues, but I don't remember anyone of influence saying you are automatically racist for disagreeing with him.

And I don't think anyone of influence said Brees was racists for his position. There is a distinction to be made.

The problem is that there are too many folks on the right AND LEFT that won't view this issue with some level of depth and nuance.
BBQ4Me
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Agree.
When the kneeling during the anthem started, I at first hated it because I always stand and feel patriotism when I hear it. However, it's an American's right to do protest. My experiences are different from other Americans and I may view America differently than others. That doesn't make me right and them wrong.

The only thing that I feel strongly about is:
1) It was wrong for people to view this as some attack on the military. That was just an attempt to politicize the issue and divide Americans.
2) Kap wasn't some terrible player. He was one of the top 32 QBs in the league. Stating otherwise ignores the film and the stats.
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Macarthur said:

hph6203 said:

I'm going to reiterate that I didn't care that Kaepernick kneeled during the national anthem. What I will say is that believing he shouldn't kneel during the anthem does not make a person racist, it doesn't mean you don't believe that police brutality is wrong, it just means you think kneeling during the anthem is wrong.

I think there's a bit of over sensitivity here. I'm sure you can find an example here and there because there are nuts on both sides of issues, but I don't remember anyone of influence saying you are automatically racist for disagreeing with him.

And I don't think anyone of influence said Brees was racists for his position. There is a distinction to be made.

The problem is that there are too many folks on the right AND LEFT that won't view this issue with some level of depth and nuance.


I think we are "over sensitive" because we have been attacked on this very thread for our opinion:

"Kneeling doesn't disrespect the flag or our armed forces (now or back in 2017). Non racists understood this back in 2017. " - expresswrittenconsent

If we find kneeling disrespectful to the flag and by extension our family members who gave their lives for us to be able to have this discussion then we are racist.

"You know, it is a bit of a tough sell for white folks to complain to POC that their voice isn't getting heard given history." - Macarthur

You have completely dismissed the feelings of others who disagree with you because we are white while expecting us to understand your feelings and support your cause.

Again, you are continuing to lose this argument, because you continue to be dismissive of the feelings of others while expecting them to respect your feelings on this issue.

Please tell me who was the intended audience of this protest? Whose opinion were they attempting to change?
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BBQ4Me said:

Agree.
When the kneeling during the anthem started, I at first hated it because I always stand and feel patriotism when I hear it. However, it's an American's right to do protest. My experiences are different from other Americans and I may view America differently than others. That doesn't make me right and them wrong.

The only thing that I feel strongly about is:
1) It was wrong for people to view this as some attack on the military. That was just an attempt to politicize the issue and divide Americans.
2) Kap wasn't some terrible player. He was one of the top 32 QBs in the league. Stating otherwise ignores the film and the stats.


You are correct, it is a right in this country to voice your opinion, and I have a right to be offended by the manner in which you choose to protest.

Again, you are correct, it does not make you right and them wrong, BUT it also does not make them right and you wrong like you now seem to believe.

It was not wrong for you to view this an attack on the military.

Let's say I decide to protest the Chinese action in Hong Kong by screaming racial slurs in the streets. It's not my intention to offend any Americans, so they can't get mad at me, right?

(To be clear this is not something I would ever do, but I am trying to find something that your side of the argument would find equally as offensive as some of us find kneeling for the flag.)
TXAGBQ76
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I remember when all of this started, I contacted a business friend who was an SF season ticket holder asking about this. It was right before the fourth preseason game and kneeling game.

He sent me some articles from the previous games. Basically they said said the was headed South, they had already told him he was losing the starting role and was looking to trade him. He basically pouted and stayed on the far end of the bench not standing with his team nor standing for the National Anthem A reporter asked him about it and he said if he was not going to be the starter he did not care about the team.

By the fourth game it appeared there was no trade interest (now that my have been because SF wanted too much- cant remember now) and they were considering cutting him. It was at that game where he knelt on the sidelines and said it was in support of racial injustice, police brutality, etc.

A tinfoil kinda guy might come to the conclusion he did that to put pressure on SF to not fire him without looking like racists. Personally, i think he believes in his stated cause- no matter what the cost.

At the end of the day, it will be interesting who will take the chance on a guy who was struggling before all of this blew up, who has not played in quite sometime, who wants seven figures and appears to be unwilling to take a backup role until he can show he still has the talent to be an NFL starter. Someone will if only for the publicity goodwill. Does Cleveland need yet another QB?
Kozmozag
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Guys he has turned down offers. He is out of the league because he believes he is a top qb.
Macarthur
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Kozmozag said:

Guys he has turned down offers. He is out of the league because he believes he is a top qb.
What OFFERS has he turned down?


And I agree that it's beyond a long shot, at this point. He's been out of the league for too long now.
Mr.Bond
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Macarthur said:

Kozmozag said:

Guys he has turned down offers. He is out of the league because he believes he is a top qb.
What OFFERS has he turned down?


And I agree that it's beyond a long shot, at this point. He's been out of the league for too long now.



Seattle and Baltimore if memory serves me correctly. His gf went pyscho on Baltimore owner calling him a plantation owner etc. Seattle was a backup role I believe.

Been years and I honestly don't put much effort into caring about a backup qbs situation
Im looking for Ray Finkle.... and a clean pair of shorts. Im just a very big Finkle fan. This is my Graceland, sir.




Mr. White
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/source-kap-not-willing-take-broncos-current-pay-cut-offer%3famp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/11/16/sports/football/colin-kaepernick-nfl-workout.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/482512-xfl-commissioner-kaepernick-rejected-by-xfl-after-exorbitant-salary-demands%3famp
TXAGBQ76
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Was raised not to wear a hat in the house, so not an issue.

If I am walking up to the stadium and the National Anthem starts I stop, remove my hat, put it over my heart and sing along with the music.

Not a vet but my family has almost 200 cumulative man years of service in the Army, Air Force an Navy.
TXAGBQ76
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How was he taking a pay cut? he wasn't playing and was paid nothing for doing so. Sounds to me like he was getting a $7M raise.
J. Walter Weatherman
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And...end of thread. If Kap would have accepted a backup job and salary he would already be on a team, but he has made it clear he is more interested in being a martyr than playing. Just look at his stunt during the NFL workout last year.
Macarthur
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Mr. White said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/source-kap-not-willing-take-broncos-current-pay-cut-offer%3famp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/11/16/sports/football/colin-kaepernick-nfl-workout.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/482512-xfl-commissioner-kaepernick-rejected-by-xfl-after-exorbitant-salary-demands%3famp
Those do not prove your point. I'll grant you that he didn't want to play in the XFL, but that still does not show he rejected contract offers from the NFL.

The Broncos thing has been discussed. He was asked to take a pay cut for a trade. He refused the pay cut. Tons of players have done this.
Macarthur
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TXAGBQ76 said:

Was raised not to wear a hat in the house, so not an issue.

If I am walking up to the stadium and the National Anthem starts I stop, remove my hat, put it over my heart and sing along with the music.

Not a vet but my family has almost 200 cumulative man years of service in the Army, Air Force an Navy.

Do you do the same watching a game in your house? Virtually everyone has veterans in their family. What does that have to do with his point?
Mr. White
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Macarthur said:

Mr. White said:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcsports.com/bayarea/49ers/source-kap-not-willing-take-broncos-current-pay-cut-offer%3famp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nytimes.com/2019/11/16/sports/football/colin-kaepernick-nfl-workout.amp.html

https://www.google.com/amp/s/thehill.com/homenews/media/482512-xfl-commissioner-kaepernick-rejected-by-xfl-after-exorbitant-salary-demands%3famp
Those do not prove your point. I'll grant you that he didn't want to play in the XFL, but that still does not show he rejected contract offers from the NFL.

The Broncos thing has been discussed. He was asked to take a pay cut for a trade. He refused the pay cut. Tons of players have done this.


Pay cut is better than nothing. I've completely lost interest in discussing this guy. Go back to your CK shrine.
MookieBlaylock
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He sucked and refused back up money

Look what Tanny did to earn his way back

J. Walter Weatherman
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And again, zero people are saying he doesn't have the right to decline a pay cut or hold out for what he thinks he's worth. But once he does that he forfeits his right to complain about still being unemployed given it was his choice. Plus, someone who actually wants the job doesn't pull the stunt he pulled in Atlanta last year.
Macarthur
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J. Walter Weatherman said:

And again, zero people are saying he doesn't have the right to decline a pay cut or hold out for what he thinks he's worth. But once he does that he forfeits his right to complain about still being unemployed given it was his choice. Plus, someone who actually wants the job doesn't pull the stunt he pulled in Atlanta last year.

Seriously? LOL
03_Aggie
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Macarthur said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

And again, zero people are saying he doesn't have the right to decline a pay cut or hold out for what he thinks he's worth. But once he does that he forfeits his right to complain about still being unemployed given it was his choice. Plus, someone who actually wants the job doesn't pull the stunt he pulled in Atlanta last year.

Seriously? LOL


Ah yes, it is always someone's else's fault.
J. Walter Weatherman
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Macarthur said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

And again, zero people are saying he doesn't have the right to decline a pay cut or hold out for what he thinks he's worth. But once he does that he forfeits his right to complain about still being unemployed given it was his choice. Plus, someone who actually wants the job doesn't pull the stunt he pulled in Atlanta last year.

Seriously? LOL


Excellent rebuttal.
Macarthur
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https://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2020/06/15/revisiting-the-colin-kaepernick-false-narratives/
J. Walter Weatherman
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That article is so intentionally obtuse it's actually impressive. Kap turned down $7MM/year from the Broncos and it's some huge leap to assume he was holding out for $9-10MM after that?
Law Hall 69-72
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Macarthur said:

J. Walter Weatherman said:

And again, zero people are saying he doesn't have the right to decline a pay cut or hold out for what he thinks he's worth. But once he does that he forfeits his right to complain about still being unemployed given it was his choice. Plus, someone who actually wants the job doesn't pull the stunt he pulled in Atlanta last year.

Seriously? LOL
. Seriously.
MooreTrucker
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Quote:

There's lots of angles on this but the question I would like to ask is if there is anyone on this board that has changed their mind on Kaepernick? And more specific to the point, I and many others, felt that his absence from the league had nothing to do with his ability and it was a business decision by the league.
It was a business decision based on his actions AND the fact that he's really not very good anymore. Hell, he was a backup when all this started.
OriolePete
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Well he wanted people to start having conversations. He did that. Just not about what he "wanted"
Iraq2xVeteran
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I am a die hard San Francisco 49ers fan. Because 49ers General Manager John Lynch and Kyle Shanahan wanted to move in a different direction, they would have released Colin Kaepernick if he didn't opt out. https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/18808233/san-francisco-49ers-released-colin-kaepernick-opt-out

I am glad the 49ers traded for Jimmy Garuppolo in the middle of the 2017 season. After a 1-10 start, the 49ers won their last five games to finish 6-10. Many expected the 49ers to become a playoff contender in 2018, but the they finished 4-12 and 0-8 on the road after an injury to Jimmy Garuppolo in Week 3. Last year, Garuppolo proved to be a great fit for the Shanahan's offense, leading them to a 13-3 season and an NFC Championship before a 31-20 loss to the Kansas City Chiefs in Super Bowl LIV.

As for Kaepernick's current situation, I believe he would be a good backup quarterback, but no NFL team believes he is worth the attention he would receive.
Iraq2xVeteran
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I am die hard San Francisco 49ers fan, and NFL teams believe that only elite or great players would be worth the drama.
jr15aggie
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Regardless of the past and the why/why-nots... is this guy even in shape, does he have the physical make-up and skills to play at the NFL level anymore???

I could be wrong, but he doesn't strike me as somebody that's been really hitting the gym and working with QB guru's desperately waiting for his next shot.
TXAG 05
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jr15aggie said:

Regardless of the past and the why/why-nots... is this guy even in shape, does he have the physical make-up and skills to play at the NFL level anymore???

I could be wrong, but he doesn't strike me as somebody that's been really hitting the gym and working with QB guru's desperately waiting for his next shot.


I really don't think he wants to play. If he was serious about getting back on the field, he wouldn't be skipping the tryouts and turning down offers. If he was good enough and was serious about playing, he would be on a roster.
stallion6
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Macarthur said:

This article confirms what many thought.

https://www.si.com/nfl/2020/05/30/former-nfl-executive-colin-kaepernick-protests-george-floyd

There's lots of angles on this but the question I would like to ask is if there is anyone on this board that has changed their mind on Kaepernick? And more specific to the point, I and many others, felt that his absence from the league had nothing to do with his ability and it was a business decision by the league.

I remember folks on here taking the position that is was 100% based on the fact that he sucked as a player. Is there anyone willing to admit they were wrong about that?

I understand your question but why would it matter? I am sure there are player decisions on many teams, when skill is relatively close, that extend beyond player skill. I have never understood the postiion that some team owes Kaepernick a roster spot.
 
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