what happened to the Cowboys draft a few years ago where they got "3 first rounders" with their 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks?

the media praised the Cowboys for that

That was 2015. They took Byron Jones at the end of the 1st, Randy Gregory at the end of the 2nd, and signed La'el Collins, who had the misfortune of a very last minute false allegation of sexual assault derail him from going in the top half of the 1st round, as a UFA.

Collins has been solid. Byron Jones was good for 1-2 years but took a strange step back this year. I suspect he's been impacted by all of the player turnover and chaos throughout the secondary, and has been asked to do too many different things. Randy Gregory never should have been drafted. Pothead with mental issues. First round physically but UFA mentally.

jr15: who crapped in your wheaties? this is an NFL discussion board. Don't read it if you don't like it.

the cowboys have sucked for 20+ years and it is a clear trend of the owner's draft philosophy. A topic very much worthy of analysis on an NFL discussion board.

I thought the Cowboys couldn't win in the playoffs because of the NFL's dumb catch rule?

The zeke vs Ramsey is debatable. I would prefer Ramsey for several reasons:

1) RB's don't last nearly as long as DB's
2) Zeke has off the field issues
3) RB's are much easier to find than elite DB's
4) I have a defensive minded philosophy (personal preference, I would rather have a good defense than offense)

Even though I wanted Ramsay, Zeke was still a good pick. In 3-5 years when he is used up and Ramsey is going strong, people might see it my way. With that said, you can definitely argue the Zeke pick was the right way to go.

The second round pick was absolutely terrible. Maybe take him in the 4-5th round.

All teams miss in the draft. However, this is a textbook example of a long term problem with the cowboys and why they have sucked for 20 years.

Another gigantic issue is second contracts. Cowboys overpay for guys whose best days are behind them (Dez, Marion Barber etc). Teams like the Pats say "bye bye" and find younger, cheaper talent to develop.

Because of all this, the cowboys have pretty good starters, but no depth (see OL play when T. Smith got hurt).

I really got to look at a lot of film for the top players in the draft that year. I wasn't sold on Ramsey at 4 and I'm still not. The only real plus he had that fit with the Tampa 2 was his physicality. Plus he has the red flag of microfracture surgery.

The only defensive players I thought were worthy of picking ahead of Elliott and the QB's were Bosa and I could make an argument for Buckner even though he didn't fit the scheme.

I didn't like Jaylon Smith's film as a top pick even before he got hurt but the guy did end up with 81 tackles on one leg which is pretty impressive considering how few 3rd downs he played.

I like our CB's, I think that position is the least of our worries behind Safety, WR, LB, and OL.

shouldn't ultimate results matter?

ultimate results are that this team hasn't even played for a conference title in 20+ years now. there are 16 total teams in the conference so ultimately, the last 20+ years for the most part have been a failure if you think playing for titles is what matters. if you don't think playing for titles are that important, and a few good seasons mixed in with a crap load of mediocre seasons is really whats important then i guess thats your own low standard and you're the perfect fan to the Jones family.

sure this team has hit on some players, and missed on a lot too. but that is all just semantics to an ultimate result that is not very good. if you can't even play fora conference title in 20 years that means you are more fail than success. simple as that.

You also have to take into account the cowboys suck. So there is that.

PooDoo said:

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I really got to look at a lot of film for the top players in the draft that year. I wasn't sold on Ramsey at 4 and I'm still not. The only real plus he had that fit with the Tampa 2 was his physicality. Plus he has the red flag of microfracture surgery.

The only defensive players I thought were worthy of picking ahead of Elliott and the QB's were Bosa and I could make an argument for Buckner even though he didn't fit the scheme.

I didn't like Jaylon Smith's film as a top pick even before he got hurt but the guy did end up with 81 tackles on one leg which is pretty impressive considering how few 3rd downs he played.

I like our CB's, I think that position is the least of our worries behind Safety, WR, LB, and OL.

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Wow...the internet is the best.

ApachePilot said:

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You also have to take into account the cowboys suck. So there is that.

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Insight from a non-Cowboys fan.

Teams that have not made the NFC title game since 1996:

Detroit Lions
Washington Redskins
Dallas Cowboys

Good company

Solid point... glad to see your ban hasn't stopped you from trolling Cowboy threads.

PooDoo said:

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Solid point... glad to see your ban hasn't stopped you from trolling Cowboy threads.

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I was banned?

Awesome!

Also i'm actually just entertained by your post and all your posts. You're either doing an incredibly consistent bit which is funny OR you're on a lonely island and sticking to your guns beyond all reason which is also funny.

In reality i'm kind of in awe of you.

That Jax team is loaded with high picks and FA pickups including 2 former Cowboys. It's been proven time and time again that paying the wrong guys is just as much of a problem as drafting the wrong guys. I'd argue the Cowboys draft ok but poorly judge the talent they have and over pay the wrong guys. But I wouldn't go labeling Jacksonville geniuses just yet. They've have top 5 picks as far back as I can remember AND a boat load of cap room. You will eventually be good unless your Cleveland

As evidenced by $35.5mm of their 2017 cap going to Dez, Crawford, Thornton, Carr, and Carroll. Over $8mm of that to spares not even on the roster.

Helluva play by Myles jack

Yeah despite being loaded on defense they give up 42 to Pitt and a million yards in the 4th quarter to New England.

Honestly if the Cowboys ever want to be good they need Dak to be a stud and they need him to play for 10 million a year like Brady does.

True. The only way to be good is to duplicate the Pats.

corleoneAg99 said:

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True. The only way to be good is to duplicate the Pats.

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True.

Who was that Jacksonville receiver that the Cowboys drafted in the '90s, then let go due to some medical issue they overreacted on, who eventually became a top NFL receiver? I can picture him, but can't recall his name.

Quote:

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As evidenced by $35.5mm of their 2017 cap going to Dez, Crawford, Thornton, Carr, and Carroll. Over $8mm of that to spares not even on the roster.

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This has been a problem for a LONG time. They kept redo-ing Aikman's contract as well as those of many others. Basically ran the credit card up like it had no limit.

Jimmy Smith

lespaul said:

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2016 draft:

Zeke over Ramsay
Jaylon Smith over Myles Jack


Ramsay and Jack will lead the Jaguar defense for years to come

I very much wanted Ramsay over Zeke simply because RB's don't last long and are easier to find than DB's

I was very frustrated about both of the above picks. The worst draft move ever was when Aaron Rodgers fell all the way to the Cowboys and they passed on him as they had seen enough of room. Rodgers was the best player in the draft and he fell to you. A gift you take and if needed, trade him later.

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This is a silly post.

Especially advocating for Ramsay over Ezekial Elliot.

Football is truly the biggest team game out there. What I mean by that is that players are really only as good as their teammates.

If you put Ramsay on the Cowboys the results would not be any different.
Jacksonville has a great defensive line.

The Cowboys do not.
DeMarcus Lawrence is their only above average defensive lineman. A great defense is won at the line of scrimmage and the Cowboys have not had an above average defensive line since 2009.

Zeke Elliot was the highest rated tailback to come out of the draft since Adrian Peterson.
Zeke was the biggest reason the Cowboys won 13 games last season. He is a tremendous talent.

The Cowboys teams of the past two years would be much worse without Zeke and with Ramsay.

You can have the greatest corner backs in the world, but it means squat if the defensive line cant consistently rush the passer.

If the Cowboys had the 2002 Tampa Bay defensive line all of their linebackers and secondary players would look all world.

The Cowboys needs this draft should be finding an elite defensive tackle. They have not had an above average defensive tackle since Jay Ratliff.

Eh...it's not just Zeke or Ramsay....it's Zeke or Ramsay and then Jaylon, who has been average at best, vs. whatever RB they could have gotten in the 2nd or later. That's always been the hypothetical. IMO Derrick Henry and Jalen Ramsey get me more value than Zeke and Jaylon. And that's saying nothing about the fact that they knew at the time they drafted Zeke that he likes to party and mess around and that Jaylon was 90%+ likely not to play in 16 and if he did play after that he wouldn't be the guy he was at ND.

I agree the Cowboys DL could be better but they were actually eaten up more by bad LB play when Lee was out and then having a brand new secondary besides an underwhelming Byron Jones.

The DL rushed the passer reasonably well this year. I get people having heartburn over passing on Zeke, but at a minimum, the argument is at least go Zeke/Myles Jack. I don't know why a team takes a rookie LB that they know will be useless for 1-2 years of their 4 year rookie deal while Myles Jack is sitting there.

corleoneAg99 said:

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Eh...it's not just Zeke or Ramsay....it's Zeke or Ramsay and then Jaylon, who has been average at best, vs. whatever RB they could have gotten in the 2nd or later. That's always been the hypothetical. IMO Derrick Henry and Jalen Ramsey get me more value than Zeke and Jaylon. And that's saying nothing about the fact that they knew at the time they drafted Zeke that he likes to party and mess around and that Jaylon was 90%+ likely not to play in 16 and if he did play after that he wouldn't be the guy he was at ND.

I agree the Cowboys DL could be better but they were actually eaten up more by bad LB play when Lee was out and then having a brand new secondary besides an underwhelming Byron Jones.

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Two years ago I had the exact same opinion as you.

One of my funniest moments in 2016 is being pissed off when the Cowboys drafted Zeke. I also subscribed to the argument that you could draft a tailback in any round and that the Cowboys should have drafted Ramsay to strengthen their defense.

I have a buddy that is a big time gambler, and also the person I consider to be the most knowledgeable about the NFL.
I called him to whine about the Cowboys screwing up their draft again and he told me I was dead wrong. He stated that the Cowboys knocked it out of the park with the drafting of Ezekiel Elliot.

He made the following points
-When Joey Bosa came off the board they were no other defensive players rated as high.
-You cannot miss on the 4th pick. You have to pick the best player possible.
-Elliot is graded as an A+ player
-Ramsay is graded as an A- Player. In a stronger defensive draft he might not be be a top 10 pick
-If Ramsay turns out to be another Morris Claiborne the franchise could be set back for years.

I asked him what was so great about Zeke Elliot:
-He states that he is the highest rated tailback to come out of the draft since Adrian Peterson in 2007.
-Zeke Elliot does EVERYTHING excellent.
He can run between the tackles. He has break away speed. He can block. He can catch the ball out of the backfield.
My buddy states that Zeke will be the closest thing that the NFL has seen to Marshal Faulk..except that Zeke is bigger and stronger, but not quite as fast....but still very, very, very fast.


- Guys like Marshall Faulk, Terrel Owens, Randy Moss, Adrian Peterson, Zeke Elliot don't grow on trees. If you have the opportunity to draft a transcendent level super star player you do it....especially with the Cowboys offensive line.


- Bosa was the only defensive player that was in Elliot overall grade as a player. Jalen Ramsay is a nice player, but the thought was that unless he turns out to be Deon Sanders there is always someone available with his level of talent in any given draft.

The funny thing is....is that I still didn't believe him....until I got to see how badass Ezekiel Elliot really was.
He was the best tailback in the NFL last year by a pretty wide margin. Zeke was the best player as a rookie on a team that went 13-3.

His presence on the Dallas Cowboys changes everything about not only their offense, but even their defense.

Regarding Myles Jack....I was actually very high on him coming out of UCLA. I really wanted the Cowboys to take him. I will be pissed if he turns out to be a star.

I still think Jaylon Smith could be a very good player.

My wish list for the 2018 draft is for the Cowboys to get an elite defensive tackle and some additional linebackers.

The Cowboys typically rank near the bottom of the league in turnovers and that is directly related to having a mediocre defensive line.

Put Aaron Donald on this exact same Cowboys team and they are probably 12-4 or 13-3 this season.

My real disagreement with that is the idea that Ramsey wasn't an A+ eval coming out....I'm pretty sure PFF had he and Bosa and their highest rated non-QB's and ahead of Zeke although he was right there. Kiper and Jeremiah and Mayock were in on the guy too. I just don't buy that it was inherently safer to take Zeke. I think it was, however, inherently more sexy.

It's splitting hairs but it does matter when you're talking about position value, IMO. A+ corners are pretty hard to find...A+ RB's are less hard to find. And, when you have four first round OL, you shouldn't need an A+ RB.

In the second round if you're going to take an injury risk guy, at least take one who is going to play year 1. Upside between Jaylon and Jack was pretty comparable once you accept the injury risk they both carry and so far Jack has been much better.

Anyway I think Zeke is a great player but great RB's can be found later in the draft...Lev and David Johnson are every bit as good as Zeke(or better) and they were what, second and third round picks(btw...Gurley also better than Zeke and went in the first round that year ahead of DJ)? Look where the Saints got Kamara as another example...Fournette was great this year but was he definitively better than Kamara taken like 100 picks later?

That's a pretty regular occurrence with RB's.

The irony of the Myles Jack over Jaylen Smith argument is that the knock on Jack was his durability. He is a great talent but he was chronically injured in college. Smith suffered one big injury. I'm 100% sure that either way someone would be complaining about the "dumb pick".

Eh...not really. The take on Jaylon was "may not play again and almost certainly not in year one because he has drop foot..." The take on Jack was "injury risk who may not be able to play very long...:.

Jack was essentially a higher rated version of what Sean Lee ended up being when he was drafted in the second round...at no point were people worried he would never plan again. That was routinely a worry for Jaylon.