If he wasn't such a dumbass....Belichek would be breaking Jimmy Johnsons records tonight

Pats are the perfect combo of great QB and the most consistently awful division in a nearly 20 year span. Reduced the amount of games they had to win in playoffs to get SB chances drastically.

Say what you want but the NFL is the NFL. Patriots (Brady) own it

The salary cap was in place then and played at least as big of a role in dismantling those teams as losing Jimmy did. A $35 million cap was put in place in 1994.

that's been one of my key points for years and years. It's a huge advantage to play in a mediocre division.

and other than a couple of good years from the Jets in 2009 & 2010...the Bills, Dolphins, and NYJ have been dreadful, awful, etc.., for the better part of 15+ years.

it just about gives NE a guaranteed home game and guaranteed bye into the playoffs each year

W said:

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that's been one of my key points for years and years. It's a huge advantage to play in a mediocre division.

and other than a couple of good years from the Jets in 2009 & 2010...the Bills, Dolphins, and NYJ have been dreadful, awful, etc.., for the better part of 15+ years.

it just about gives NE a guaranteed home game and guaranteed bye into the playoffs each year

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What you say is absolutely TRUE. However, the Dolphins did go 10-6 this year, so the Patriots didn't exactly walk into the division championship like previous years (since 2008). They did have to earn it this year, especially w/o their starting QB for four games.

Jimmy might have gotten them 4 straight. But that team was being dismantled by salary cap and drug issues. Now maybe Jimmy would have done a better job of replenishing the roster and not went after Lafluers and Shante Carvers... but you never know.

Meanwhile, the Brady/Belichik combo is the best I've ever seen.

I agree on Brady/Belichick, but I think Aikman/Johnson could have been right there with that duo. Big difference in ownership, IMO, with a much more stable guy in Kraft for the Patriots.

* Edit: Not saying Aikman was anywhere close to as good as Brady is (because, IMO, he clearly was not).

W said:

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that's been one of my key points for years and years. It's a huge advantage to play in a mediocre division.

and other than a couple of good years from the Jets in 2009 & 2010...the Bills, Dolphins, and NYJ have been dreadful, awful, etc.., for the better part of 15+ years.

it just about gives NE a guaranteed home game and guaranteed bye into the playoffs each year

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Considering only 6 of your games are in division, I'd hardly say that would get you an auto-bye... Let's not get carried away. Here is the Pats' division records in the regular season going back to Brady's first season (2001).

5-1
4-2
4-2
4-2
6-0
5-1
5-1
4-2
4-2
6-0
4-2
5-1
5-1
5-1
4-2
4-2

Division Record: 67-23 (.744)
Non-division record: 113-37 (.753)
Overall record: 180-60 (.750)

So, 23 of their 60 losses (38.3%) have come in division vs. 37.5% of games. Winning percentage is actually LOWER in division games, so that argument doesn't hold up to scrutiny. They have dominated that division, for sure, but that's because they've dominated everyone... pretty consistently as you can see. If you exclude the first two seasons the differences get even more extreme - with the division win percentage significantly lower than non-division.

I wonder how that ranks among playoff teams. Would be interesting to see.

Since the league went to 4 divisions (02-03 season and on)....here are some numbers to consider:

Playoff appearances by Division:

NFC South: 21
NFC North: 23
NFC East: 25
NFC West: 21

AFC South: 22
AFC North: 26
AFC East: 20
AFC West: 22

Playoff Appearances by Team:

NFC South:
Atlanta Falcons: 7
Carolina Panthers: 6
New Orleans Saints: 5
Tampa bay Buccaneers: 3

NFC North:
Chicago Bears: 3
Detroit Lions: 3
Green Bay Packers: 12
Minnesota Vikings: 5

NFC East:
Dallas Cowboys: 6
New York Giants: 7
Philadelphia Eagles: 8
Washington Redskins: 4

NFC West:
Arizona Cardinals: 4
Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams;: 2
San Francisco 49ers: 4
Seattle Seahawks: 11

AFC South:
Houston Texans: 4
Indianapolis Colts: 12
Jacksonville Jaguars: 2
Tennessee Titans: 4

AFC North:
Baltimore Ravens: 8
Cincinnati Bengals: 7
Cleveland Browns: 1
Pittsburgh Steelers: 10

AFC East:
Buffalo Bills: 0
Miami Dolphins: 2
New England Patriots: 13
New York Jets: 5

AFC West:
Denver Broncos: 8
Kansas City Chiefs: 6
Oakland Raiders: 2
San Diego Chargers: 6


When looking at the top playoff appearances over the span by each team in each division, and removing them, let's look at total playoff appearances

NFC South: (remove Falcons with 7)
14 appearances

NFC North: Remove Packers with 12
11 Appearances

NFC East: (Remove Eagles with 8)
17 Playoff Appearances

AFC South: (Remove Colts with 12)
10 Playoff appearances

AFC North: (Remove Steelers with 10)
16 Playoff appearances

AFC East: (Remove Patriots with 13)
7 Playoff appearances

AFC West: (Remove Broncos with 8)
14 Playoff appearances


The Patriots have been dominant, no doubt. But they have also benefited from by far the weakest division in the NFL for a long time now. You cannot discount how helpful that is regarding playoff seeding and BYEs.

They've made sure to be damn good for a long time, but they've also taken advantage of a horrific division, which more times than not allows them to get a 1st round bye, which gives them more chances at better opportunities to reach conference title games and super bowls.



Regarding Super Bowl Appearances, only the AFC South & AFC East have only one team from their division that made the Super Bowl during that time. All other divisions had 2 or more unique teams make at least one appearance.

Bunk Moreland said:

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Since the league went to 4 divisions (02-03 season and on)....here are some numbers to consider:

Playoff appearances by Division:

NFC South: 21
NFC North: 23
NFC East: 25
NFC West: 21

AFC South: 22
AFC North: 26
AFC East: 20
AFC West: 22

Playoff Appearances by Team:

NFC South:
Atlanta Falcons: 7
Carolina Panthers: 6
New Orleans Saints: 5
Tampa bay Buccaneers: 3

NFC North:
Chicago Bears: 3
Detroit Lions: 3
Green Bay Packers: 12
Minnesota Vikings: 5

NFC East:
Dallas Cowboys: 6
New York Giants: 7
Philadelphia Eagles: 8
Washington Redskins: 4

NFC West:
Arizona Cardinals: 4
Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams;: 2
San Francisco 49ers: 4
Seattle Seahawks: 11

AFC South:
Houston Texans: 4
Indianapolis Colts: 12
Jacksonville Jaguars: 2
Tennessee Titans: 4

AFC North:
Baltimore Ravens: 8
Cincinnati Bengals: 7
Cleveland Browns: 1
Pittsburgh Steelers: 10

AFC East:
Buffalo Bills: 0
Miami Dolphins: 2
New England Patriots: 13
New York Jets: 5

AFC West:
Denver Broncos: 8
Kansas City Chiefs: 6
Oakland Raiders: 2
San Diego Chargers: 6


When looking at the top playoff appearances over the span by each team in each division, and removing them, let's look at total playoff appearances

NFC South: (remove Falcons with 7)
14 appearances

NFC North: Remove Packers with 12
11 Appearances

NFC East: (Remove Eagles with 8)
17 Playoff Appearances

AFC South: (Remove Colts with 12)
10 Playoff appearances

AFC North: (Remove Steelers with 10)
16 Playoff appearances

AFC East: (Remove Patriots with 13)
7 Playoff appearances

AFC West: (Remove Broncos with 8)
14 Playoff appearances


The Patriots have been dominant, no doubt. But they have also benefited from by far the weakest division in the NFL for a long time now. You cannot discount how helpful that is regarding playoff seeding and BYEs.

They've made sure to be damn good for a long time, but they've also taken advantage of a horrific division, which more times than not allows them to get a 1st round bye, which gives them more chances at better opportunities to reach conference title games and super bowls.



Regarding Super Bowl Appearances, only the AFC South & AFC East have only one team from their division that made the Super Bowl during that time. All other divisions had 2 or more unique teams make at least one appearance.

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Not only that, but two teams have literaly handed them a SB with poor game managment - Seattle w/ the pass and Atl with the awful clcok management.


NE has been great and doing it in the salary cap era is also impressive, but they have also been really lucky.

They have been very lucky in those 2 instances, as it was more the other team just mentally choking...but that being said, I give them credit because those things tend to happen when you give yourself the opportunity to win a Super Bowl as often as they have.

Macarthur said:

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Bunk Moreland said:

---

Since the league went to 4 divisions (02-03 season and on)....here are some numbers to consider:

Playoff appearances by Division:

NFC South: 21
NFC North: 23
NFC East: 25
NFC West: 21

AFC South: 22
AFC North: 26
AFC East: 20
AFC West: 22

Playoff Appearances by Team:

NFC South:
Atlanta Falcons: 7
Carolina Panthers: 6
New Orleans Saints: 5
Tampa bay Buccaneers: 3

NFC North:
Chicago Bears: 3
Detroit Lions: 3
Green Bay Packers: 12
Minnesota Vikings: 5

NFC East:
Dallas Cowboys: 6
New York Giants: 7
Philadelphia Eagles: 8
Washington Redskins: 4

NFC West:
Arizona Cardinals: 4
Los Angeles/St. Louis Rams;: 2
San Francisco 49ers: 4
Seattle Seahawks: 11

AFC South:
Houston Texans: 4
Indianapolis Colts: 12
Jacksonville Jaguars: 2
Tennessee Titans: 4

AFC North:
Baltimore Ravens: 8
Cincinnati Bengals: 7
Cleveland Browns: 1
Pittsburgh Steelers: 10

AFC East:
Buffalo Bills: 0
Miami Dolphins: 2
New England Patriots: 13
New York Jets: 5

AFC West:
Denver Broncos: 8
Kansas City Chiefs: 6
Oakland Raiders: 2
San Diego Chargers: 6


When looking at the top playoff appearances over the span by each team in each division, and removing them, let's look at total playoff appearances

NFC South: (remove Falcons with 7)
14 appearances

NFC North: Remove Packers with 12
11 Appearances

NFC East: (Remove Eagles with 8)
17 Playoff Appearances

AFC South: (Remove Colts with 12)
10 Playoff appearances

AFC North: (Remove Steelers with 10)
16 Playoff appearances

AFC East: (Remove Patriots with 13)
7 Playoff appearances

AFC West: (Remove Broncos with 8)
14 Playoff appearances


The Patriots have been dominant, no doubt. But they have also benefited from by far the weakest division in the NFL for a long time now. You cannot discount how helpful that is regarding playoff seeding and BYEs.

They've made sure to be damn good for a long time, but they've also taken advantage of a horrific division, which more times than not allows them to get a 1st round bye, which gives them more chances at better opportunities to reach conference title games and super bowls.



Regarding Super Bowl Appearances, only the AFC South & AFC East have only one team from their division that made the Super Bowl during that time. All other divisions had 2 or more unique teams make at least one appearance.

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Not only that, but two teams have literaly handed them a SB with poor game managment - Seattle w/ the pass and Atl with the awful clcok management.


NE has been great and doing it in the salary cap era is also impressive, but they have also been really lucky.

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Not to mention the "Tuck Rule" coming into play for the first time.

I knew Buffalo was bad but holy ****, 0 playoff appearances since the new divisional setup.