In before TDLR;

so here is a little background:
- Been with the company for 15 years and have grown from an entry level analyst into a Director.
- I have been relocated 3 times by my company each with a slight promotion attached. My current relocation we had a slight negotiation on salary but I ended up caving to grow my career.
- After 2 years I have help the company begin to turn around and improve process. Since I have been here 3 directors and the GM have been let go and I continue to receive high performance reviews.
- I signed up thinking 3-4 years here so I am getting closer to thinking about returning home.
- There is some family pressure to get back to Texas


I recently had a company reach out to me asking for an interview. After talking to the HR about the position she asked about total compensation. She thought I was going to be outside the range, but still wanted to present me to the hiring manager. Fast forward 3+ interviews later, the last one in which they flew to the middle of Mississippi to meet me, an offer is coming Tuesday. It does not sound like it will be a huge increase versus what I make currently, but it will relo us back to the D/FW area.

The discussion I want to have is around the following

1. My near future - . When are they thinking about moving me back to Texas. (This was the plan all along, time was TBD)

2. Executive Leadership Team - With all the turnover several director roles are still not filled and work being down is by me. What does the future of the team look like and what should my role be doing.

3. Compensation - Based on data I have acquired from recruiters reaching out to me, it appears my skill set is in great demand in the marketplace currently. I believe based on the improvement I have made to the business unit over the past 2 years (examples given) I have proven without a doubt that I am a valuable piece to this business unit.

Comp ask with be x.x% increase in base, bump from Director B to Director A which comes higher bonus payout % and increase in SAR's and RSU's.


I am leaning towards doing it as soon as possible as my ask it going to have to be run up the chain for approval and it will take a while. I am afraid to wait until the offer as either way I do not think I could have an answer back by the time I need to accept or decline the potential offer.

or

Should I wait until I have an offer that I am willing to accept before I have this discussion.

I am trying to avoid accepting an offer and finding out later my current company wants me to stay and is willing to acquiesce to my request. I think I can probably buy a week with the new offer, I'll look at the offer for 48 hours, ask for a few additional perks and hopefully that will buy another day or two.


Thanks for any help you can provide.

SockDePot said:

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If that company spent all that time pursuing you, flying out, etc, just for you to leverage their offer to stay with your current company, that's a little crappy on your part.

If you truly add value to your current company, they will come back with a better offer, and you will have wasted a bunch of other people's time and money.

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If they can match my current salary 100% I'd take the new role. They knew my salary going in so if they come in under it wouldn't it be they who wasted my time?

Based on my last conversation with their HR team they were asking me if I'd take less here and less there so I think they are going to have issues getting me back to flat and we have no discussed vested stock options yet. I will consider moving back for less if my current company does not have a succession plan for my role.

When was your last performance review? If it has been a while, I would ask to meet with my boss. I would propose it as an informal check-in/lunch.

There has obviously been turnover and change, so ask where does he/she see me being able to add value in the short term. What about the long term? What is the plan for the org?

I think based on the information you receive, you will know what the real opportunity there is. Do they have a plan for your career growth?

GrimesCoAg95 said:

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When was your last performance review? If it has been a while, I would ask to meet with my boss. I would propose it as an informal check-in/lunch.

There has obviously been turnover and change, so ask where does he/she see me being able to add value in the short term. What about the long term? What is the plan for the org?

I think based on the information you receive, you will know what the real opportunity there is. Do they have a plan for your career growth?

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It was over a year ago and at the time for our mid year, the old GM was being removed so those were not done. We are beginning to start our year end reviews for 2019 so one thing I had thought about was requesting my YE review to be done early next week to discuss my performance and the business direction.

Congrats on having a 'good' problem!

A couple things - what is the realistic opportunity for you to get back to DFW at your current company? You're doing a great job, they've made cuts around you and it looks like you're 'the guy' now. If you were to put in for an immediate transfer back to DFW would they have a position available for you? How much would it shape your career? If you don't want to leave immediately, what is the realistic timeline to be promoted back to DFW?Is the ceiling the same at both companies?

You can figure out the new company's rough offer metrics, what do you honestly think your company will do to match? If you've been with the same company for 15 years I can almost guarantee that you are undervalued compared to your skills on the open market. Do you know what your skills are worth on the open market in general? Is this company just doing better than you're current compensation or are they doing better than what the open market values you at?

Best of luck

Thanks for the advice.

I received an email from the hiring manager today asking for me to reach out to him tomorrow as he has "some good news to share"

I'd prefer to stay at my current company just not in my current location. I am willing to go another year while we find a landing spot for me, but not a lot longer. I am going to discuss with my GM early this week and am not going to expose that I have an offer. I am going to ask that we hold my annual review now instead of in a couple weeks so we can discuss my current performance and fit. Hopefully there are already plans in place which have not been communicated to me yet.

Well they offered me and as expected total compensation is less than my current role.

Salary basically flat
Bonus potential flat
SAR/RSU's - none

Finally only $20K for relocation assistance. Realtor fees alone will be $24k.

I have asked my GM to schedule my annual performance review soon and see what plans they have for me.

In the meantime I am going to draw up a counter offer with higher salary to compensate for no Stock options and an increase in relocation assistance.

Fun times.

It's called leverage. They know you want to be back in Texas and are currently stuck in Mississippi with a dead beat company.

Good luck on the negotiations. You'll find out if pretty quickly where you stand after the counter. Counter with what you believe you are worth. At worst, you're at the same point you were before the offer and avoided another bad opportunity.

TXAGGIES said:

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Well they offered me and as expected total compensation is less than my current role.

Salary basically flat
Bonus potential flat
SAR/RSU's - none

Finally only $20K for relocation assistance. Realtor fees alone will be $24k.

I have asked my GM to schedule my annual performance review soon and see what plans they have for me.

In the meantime I am going to draw up a counter offer with higher salary to compensate for no Stock options and an increase in relocation assistance.

Fun times.

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except you have nothing to lose. don't lowball your counter-offer. give them something to shoot for that is a bit beyond where you want/need to be.

During the discussions to date, have you revealed your current comp package? A lot of companies will base off of that. If they knew your current comp and lowballed you that tells you something about this new outfit. If they didn't know your current comp and lowballed you, simply educate them on where you need to be to make a change, but again, shoot well above where you are so you can get in the zone of where you want to be.

If this oppty doesn't meet your expectations, there is always another one.

You got this.

TXAGGIES said:

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After talking to the HR about the position she asked about total compensation. She thought I was going to be outside the range, but still wanted to present me to the hiring manager. Fast forward 3+ interviews later, the last one in which they flew to the middle of Mississippi to meet me, an offer is coming Tuesday.

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They know what I made, all-in, so with that offer it may be a waste to even counter.

Then you have nothing to lose by countering. If you don't have the conviction to stand up for yourself, why would they?

Wait... you never know what the package from the new company will look like as a whole (other than salary, etc.. )

Make this simple. I've relocated before and am about to again (overseas this time). I can tell you this: if your family is giving you pressure to get back home, then you need to re-evaluate your priorities. Comp is very important, but is a 10-20% raise to get back to Dallas really worth it to go to a situation where you need to rebuild your reputation only to have to move once again for the next big career opportunity? Moves are manageable but stressful on families... if they aren't in for it, then you need to consider your family's longer term lifestyle over the immediate comp.

Before you start negotiating and getting all excited about numbers, figure out what your family wants to do and if they really are up for relocations after moving back to Dallas. 12-18 months more in a location is really nothing if career advancement is easier in the place you'll end up at is easier in one situation vs. the other.

Think strategically about this (long term and lifestyle) vs. tactically (smaller pay bump)... I guarantee you whatever you decide to do will put you in a better place to both stand up for yourself and get what you ultimately want in the long run.

When I was interviewing them I told them ideally I could take my current role and just move it to Dallas so my wife could be closer to her father (stage 3 cancer).

I like my current company and it has the greatest career advancement opportunities in the future, but it may require another 3 years in Mississippi. I want to try and get back for my wife to be by her father as I lost my father to cancer when I was younger, but taking $100,000-$120,000 (unvested plus not getting ~$35K/year in the future) hit in equity as well as paying my own way to relocate is a little to much to overcome at this point.

I am going to give the new company what it is truly going to take to get me to relocate, as they were the ones who reached out to me for this opportunity, not the other way around.

TXAGGIES said:

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When I was interviewing them I told them ideally I could take my current role and just move it to Dallas so my wife could be closer to her father (stage 3 cancer).

I like my current company and it has the greatest career advancement opportunities in the future, but it may require another 3 years in Mississippi. I want to try and get back for my wife to be by her father as I lost my father to cancer when I was younger, but taking $100,000-$120,000 (unvested plus not getting ~$35K/year in the future) hit in equity as well as paying my own way to relocate is a little to much to overcome at this point.

I am going to give the new company what it is truly going to take to get me to relocate, as they were the ones who reached out to me for this opportunity, not the other way around.

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Ok... that makes a bit more sense... and I can empathize since my wife lost his Father to cancer during our 1st relocation.

Just an outside the box thought for you to ponder: have you considered discussing this with your company and seeing if they'd be willing to do a remote/flexible remote arrangement for you? If you love your current company, and have the reputation there, that would seem ideal for you and they might consider working that out for you if you've done great work them.

12-18 months to get back home probably isn't ideal for your situation and that seems to be your pinch point anyway and not really comp. Again, putting my strategic hat on in your shoes, I'd probably focus on the move home ahead of compensation. Don't make the decision trees harder than they need to be in these matters.

TXAGGIES said:

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When I was interviewing them I told them ideally I could take my current role and just move it to Dallas so my wife could be closer to her father (stage 3 cancer).

I like my current company and it has the greatest career advancement opportunities in the future, but it may require another 3 years in Mississippi. I want to try and get back for my wife to be by her father as I lost my father to cancer when I was younger, but taking $100,000-$120,000 (unvested plus not getting ~$35K/year in the future) hit in equity as well as paying my own way to relocate is a little to much to overcome at this point.

I am going to give the new company what it is truly going to take to get me to relocate, as they were the ones who reached out to me for this opportunity, not the other way around.

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Have you looked at having the wife relocate back to Dallas to be with her Father? My FIL was severally hurt at work and I quit, took a year off, and relocated us back to the Hill Country so we can help out. My company at the time offered me am option of flying back home every weekend (Fly out on Friday from New Orleans and Leave SA on Monday), but I passed and came to regret it in the long run.

Have you spoke to your company about your FIL condition to see if they could support something like this in the short-term?

Edit (TLDNR)

Do not forget to figure taxes into the equation if you have not done so.

so a quick update.

I had a few conversations with my current company, but never mentioned an offer. I just explained how my situation had changed and if something came open I would love the opportunity to get back to Richardson. This is still TBD.

From the new company, I received an offer, below what I currently am making with only $20,000 of relocation assistance. I rejected it and gave a counter. They came back on Friday saying they couldn't go any higher than the initial offer and i told the HR recruiter I was working with I would decline their offer and sent back this email to the hiring president.

Quote:

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Dear XXX,

Thank you for offering me the position of Vice President, Finance at XXX and for reviewing my counteroffer with management. I fully understand that budgets are tight, but must regretfully decline the position at the current compensation. While I believed I would have been an ideal fit, I just couldn't make the finances work with the relocation costs..

Once again, I want to thank you and the entire XXXXX team I was able to meet with, so much for your graciousness during the process. I wish you and XXXXX all the best.

If you would like to discuss this further I would be happy to set up a call.

Sincerely,
TXAGGIES

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Today, I got an email response to setup another call at 3:00 tomorrow.

Should I expect more negotiations or is this more of a what happened during the process call?

and yes, I have put some tax into consideration, but when looking at income tax and property tax, it is almost a wash. Where taxes are the biggest player is in relocation. The $20K they offered was not going to be grossed up, thus in reality it is $15,000 for true relocation expense.

TXAGGIES said:

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Quote:

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Dear XXX,

Thank you for offering me the position of Vice President, Finance at XXX and for reviewing my counteroffer with management. I fully understand that budgets are tight, but must regretfully decline the position at the current compensation. While I believed I would have been an ideal fit, I just couldn't make the finances work with the relocation costs..

Once again, I want to thank you and the entire XXXXX team I was able to meet with, so much for your graciousness during the process. I wish you and XXXXX all the best.

If you would like to discuss this further I would be happy to set up a call.

Sincerely,
TXAGGIES

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Today, I got an email response to setup another call at 3:00 tomorrow.

Should I expect more negotiations or is this more of a what happened during the process call?

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From your rejection letter I would suspect they are going to come back with a counter to bump up the relocation assistance since your letter makes it seem like that is the only issue.

my counter was a very small bump in salary (under $10K) and the rest was relocation assistance. I think they know that is what the sticking point was with their offer.

I'll update again after the call.

With that little of a difference in $, it looks like you are playing the short game versus the long game. That amount of money is lost in the grey area., especially if you truly feel it is a good fit for the both of you.

The difference is the $80k or so out of pocket for relocation that they are not covering. $20k not grossed up is no where near enough for a home owner.

TXAGGIES said:

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The difference is the $80k or so out of pocket for relocation that they are not covering. $20k not grossed up is no where near enough for a home owner.

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I'm agree that 15k real money for move isn't a lot, but 100k for relocation? Where are you getting a 100k as needs for relocation? 6% real estate commission, professional moving van, etc can add up - but 100k?

TXAGGIES said:

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The difference is the $80k or so out of pocket for relocation that they are not covering. $20k not grossed up is no where near enough for a home owner.

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See what they have to say--if they meet all your requirements are you prepared to accept? If not, just say you have run this by the Mrs to get her final approval, but things are looking good.

If they don't meet your requirements, they might try to convince you to accept less. Be prepared with your approach to that.

If you don't come to agreement with the new company, please share the oppty back to the board here in case a fellow finance Ag might be interested in pursuing it (definitely not me--I'm sales and engineering centric).

one MEEN Ag said:

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TXAGGIES said:

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The difference is the $80k or so out of pocket for relocation that they are not covering. $20k not grossed up is no where near enough for a home owner.

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I'm agree that 15k real money for move isn't a lot, but 100k for relocation? Where are you getting a 100k as needs for relocation? 6% real estate commission, professional moving van, etc can add up - but 100k?

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My last 3 relocations have been 80-100k.

25k realtor fees
10k closing costs on new home
10k moving
5k storage of goods
15k temporary housing 3 months
5-10k final moving costs, airfare for family, hotels stays, meals etc

Now gross all that up for taxes.

TXAGGIES said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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TXAGGIES said:

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The difference is the $80k or so out of pocket for relocation that they are not covering. $20k not grossed up is no where near enough for a home owner.

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I'm agree that 15k real money for move isn't a lot, but 100k for relocation? Where are you getting a 100k as needs for relocation? 6% real estate commission, professional moving van, etc can add up - but 100k?

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My last 3 relocations have been 80-100k.

25k realtor fees
10k closing costs on new home
10k moving
5k storage of goods
15k temporary housing 3 months
5-10k final moving costs, airfare for family, hotels stays, meals etc

Now gross all that up for taxes.

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Wow. While I would consider this the 'white glove treatment,' thanks for sharing. Will keep this information handy for future use.

one MEEN Ag said:

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TXAGGIES said:

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one MEEN Ag said:

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TXAGGIES said:

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The difference is the $80k or so out of pocket for relocation that they are not covering. $20k not grossed up is no where near enough for a home owner.

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I'm agree that 15k real money for move isn't a lot, but 100k for relocation? Where are you getting a 100k as needs for relocation? 6% real estate commission, professional moving van, etc can add up - but 100k?

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My last 3 relocations have been 80-100k.

25k realtor fees
10k closing costs on new home
10k moving
5k storage of goods
15k temporary housing 3 months
5-10k final moving costs, airfare for family, hotels stays, meals etc

Now gross all that up for taxes.

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Wow. While I would consider this the 'white glove treatment,' thanks for sharing. Will keep this information handy for future use.

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That package is pretty damn average for a corporate re-lo in my experience... definitely wouldn't call it white glove.

Now what I've done before when negotiating with somebody who wants to relocate but has a bunch of deferred comp is give them up front consideration for it as a sign on bonus and they use that to move and I don't think that's an uncommon move so you should be prepared for them to offer something like that to make it work.

It's easy to sell that to mgmt to get talent in the door vs. asking them for a sign on bonus plus a relocation package or whatever.