Hi all,

Much to my surprise, a few weeks ago I was terminated from a job that I was doing very well at. I had the respect of my coworkers, my work was far beyond a meets expectations level, and I knew that I had been nominated to become the next supervisor as our department was growing. So when I say that this news came as a shock to me, I want you to understand that is somewhat of an understatement.

After taking a few weeks off to gather my bearings and fact find, I've realized that the reason I was dismissed ties directly into the fact that I had requested a higher raise than what they were willing to give me. When I had a conversation with our director, I learned that the number I put out was higher than what supervisors are making. I walked that number back somewhat with an understanding that my raise would come in the form of a promotion to supervisor following the next hire, which we are on pace to make in November/December. I thought that I had expressed the attitude that I'm willing to work hard to prove that I'm worth what I'm asking for.

**By the way, the company that I was at paid slightly below market rate for people with my experience level **

Flash forward two weeks following the meeting I was let go, with the main reason cited as performance issues. During the intervening time between the meeting and my dismissal, I received no customer complaints and nothing but praise from my immediate supervisor. I'm not looking to fight this - I can completely understand (but don't get me wrong - I don't like it) how the director and owner may feel that I may start looking for another role when I am asking for money that is a step above the promotion that I am already in line for.

My question is now that I have started job searching in earnest again, what do I tell hiring managers when I interview? Is my story common enough that I can leave it at that? For what it is worth, my former supervisor has agreed to be a reference for me and will back up everything that I have said.

If your supervisor is willing then I think you can be honest. Be cautious, as that supervisor may back out at the last second so make sure they are willing and able.

It seems strange to me that there wouldn't be a larger pay gap between the supervisory levels. But, I have been in situations where I've had direct reports who earned more than I did but those were usually due to experience and work location.

Anyway, I lost my job in February and had several opportunities right away. Your mileage may vary but I found that right now while the economy is booming, people aren't asking too many questions about your background circumstances.

I would get ready with a standard go-to 30 second spiel about why you left your last job. I'm not saying you have to lie but, get a tight statement together and move past it. If they want to beat you up about it, just re-iterate what you said and counter their question with a question about the opportunity you're applying for or interviewing.

Reasons might be that - you wanted to take your career in a different direction and get more into ... - They were going through a transition and consolidated some management positions. Whatever you do, don't go negative or bad mouth your previous employer - no matter how terrible they were. This would make you sound like a difficult person to deal with and possibly a negative person, not to mention, depending on what you say, it could wind up being legally actionable (in an extreme case, obviously).

Hopefully you networked at your last job and can leverage those contacts now. Those people should be able to introduce you to opportunities, recommend you for positions, etc.

And the last bit is - don't be shy about your circumstances. Let everybody know that you're available and looking.

HollywoodBQ said:

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It seems strange to me that there wouldn't be a larger pay gap between the supervisory levels. But, I have been in situations where I've had direct reports who earned more than I did but those were usually due to experience and work location.

Anyway, I lost my job in February and had several opportunities right away. Your mileage may vary but I found that right now while the economy is booming, people aren't asking too many questions about your background circumstances.

I would get ready with a standard go-to 30 second spiel about why you left your last job. I'm not saying you have to lie but, get a tight statement together and move past it. If they want to beat you up about it, just re-iterate what you said and counter their question with a question about the opportunity you're applying for or interviewing.

Reasons might be that - you wanted to take your career in a different direction and get more into ... - They were going through a transition and consolidated some management positions. Whatever you do, don't go negative or bad mouth your previous employer - no matter how terrible they were. This would make you sound like a difficult person to deal with and possibly a negative person, not to mention, depending on what you say, it could wind up being legally actionable (in an extreme case, obviously).

Hopefully you networked at your last job and can leverage those contacts now. Those people should be able to introduce you to opportunities, recommend you for positions, etc.

And the last bit is - don't be shy about your circumstances. Let everybody know that you're available and looking.

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Other than the salary and my dismissal, I absolutely loved the company and most of the people that I worked with. So when I say that I was shocked at being let go, I mean it.

Besides, I know that you never bad mouth a former employer. Ever.

This sounds like me except I haven't been let go yet...

Same thing though. I'm exceeds expectations across the board on my performance review that happened mid year. When I asked that they bump my pay to the market rate, they said I'd have to wait till the end of the year. I understand if they let me go because I am now looking for another job and will jump when the right one comes along.

Woods Ag said:

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This sounds like me except I haven't been let go yet...

Same thing though. I'm exceeds expectations across the board on my performance review that happened mid year. When I asked that they bump my pay to the market rate, they said I'd have to wait till the end of the year. I understand if they let me go because I am now looking for another job and will jump when the right one comes along.

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At least you started your search. I was caught flat-footed.

First off, praying for you man. let us know what industry/role you're interested in.

Secondly,

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Flash forward two weeks following the meeting I was let go, with the main reason cited as performance issues.

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it maybe too late, but I'd want what the actual performance issues were and why a PIP wasn't used. (Yes, PIPs are essentially "you will be fired" most often...but it would have bought him some time to get his stuff together)

This actually sounds more like your direct supervisor is non-confrontational and gave you the wrong messages all along. (but this doesn't really help you right now I guess)

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first off, praying for you man. let us know what industry/role you're interested in.

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I work in the online marketing space. Mostly paid ads and search, but I am very comfortable in the SEO world.

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Secondly,

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Flash forward two weeks following the meeting I was let go, with the main reason cited as performance issues.

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it maybe too late, but I'd want what the actual performance issues were and why a PIP wasn't used. (Yes, PIPs are essentially "you will be fired" most often...but it would have bought him some time to get his stuff together)

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I asked them point blank: If this is performance related, why didn't we have a conversation about it 30 days ago and put me on an action plan?

Like I said, I had received no notice or indication that I was on any sort of probation, double-secret or otherwise. For all I knew, things were going GREAT.

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This actually sounds more like your direct supervisor is non-confrontational and gave you the wrong messages all along. (but this doesn't really help you right now I guess)

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It's possible, but I doubt it.

I have been laid off for performance related issues in the past and I knew I was in trouble. Here, I've had the total opposite reaction: I've had multiple coworkers, some whom I worked with and others who I did not work with reach out to me with condolences. I honestly think that company leadership thought I was some sort of ringleader of a group that was causing trouble about our salaries, which couldn't be further from the truth.

Sounds like you might have a lawsuit on your hands.

OP, that really sucks and you probably could sue and win if you wanted to, depending on the company. While it sucks now, in the long run, you'll be really glad you're working elsewhere. I have no idea how you managed your conversation to get more money, but if it is as you said, this sounds like a place you wouldn't want to work at anyway.

Something I've learned over the years is that companies pay people what they think they're worth as measured in terms of value, likelihood of attrition, and replaceability. Highly compensated people add value, are in high demand, and are difficult or impossible to replace.

Great_I_Am said:

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Sounds like you might have a lawsuit on your hands.

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For what?

$30,000 Millionaire said:

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OP, that really sucks and you probably could sue and win if you wanted to, depending on the company. While it sucks now, in the long run, you'll be really glad you're working elsewhere. I have no idea how you managed your conversation to get more money, but if it is as you said, this sounds like a place you wouldn't want to work at anyway.

Something I've learned over the years is that companies pay people what they think they're worth as measured in terms of value, likelihood of attrition, and replaceability. Highly compensated people add value, are in high demand, and are difficult or impossible to replace.

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What exactly can he sue for?

I have seen large companies settle if there is any merit to a claim, particularly if there is inequitable treatment in the termination process, for example not leveraging a PIP if that is standard practice before terminating. It is cheaper to settle sometimes.

OP may be able to successfully argue violation of an implied contract, discrimination, or wrongful termination.

Just a quick update:

I've had several interviews and so far only one has failed to progress to the next stage - and this was a job I was told point blank during the interview that they were most likely going to fill internally. Each time I've told them the reason for my dismissal the reaction has been some variation of "Oh, that sucks. Don't worry, we're all about paying people what they're worth here".

It has also helped that I've had a literal flood of coworkers and clients from my old company that are willing to serve as professional references for me and I've told my interviewers as much.

Solo tetherball: Just some advice, you may not want to be overly honest when talking to new employers about why you were let go. Fair or not, employers tend to judge candidates that were "fired" from their previous job.

Something vague like the company decided to go in a different direction or you were part of a lay-off , would work better as an explanation IMO.

ea1060 said:

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Solo tetherball: Just some advice, you may not want to be overly honest when talking to new employers about why you were let go. Fair or not, employers tend to judge candidates that were "fired" from their previous job.

Something vague like the company decided to go in a different direction or you were part of a lay-off , would work better as an explanation IMO.

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The only problem with that style of answer is everyone knows its open ended BS. Being honest at least gives the impression to the other company he wasn't fired for performance related issues.

If you're talking to HR I could see that type of answer. For your future direct boss, maybe a little more honesty goes a long way.

A manager will typically assume it's for performance related issues if he hears of a candidate being fired. Telling a prospective employer that you were fired for simply asking for more money is going to raise some red flags, since that is typically not a fireable offense.

Do you have copies of performance evaluations from your most recent review before you were fired? If you choose to let them know that you were terminated after a salary negotiation that didn't work out you could offer a recommendation letter from your supervisor and copies of performance evaluations? But only if it seems necessary.

combat wombat said:

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Do you have copies of performance evaluations from your most recent review before you were fired? If you choose to let them know that you were terminated after a salary negotiation that didn't work out you could offer a recommendation letter from your supervisor and copies of performance evaluations? But only if it seems necessary.

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Terrible idea,.. you might own copies but your performance reviews aren't your property.