Returning to engineering apprenticeships in lieu of brick and mortar college

1,769 Views | 5 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by TXTransplant
Ciboag96
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The greatly inflated cost of an engineering degree and the fact its averaging >4.5 years to complete got me thinking.

Before modern government regulation killed it, becoming an engineer required apprenticing under another engineer. There was no bachelors degree requirement. You could earn a "PE" through experience. That was phased out over time.

Why I think this could work:

  • Online resources are abundant. Mastering foundational concepts can be done at home or weekends online.
  • You could get the BEST instruction available online (Khan Academy like options) without being subject to the pick of the draw of professors.
  • Current class/instructor methods are antiquated. See Zachry Engineering's new glass classrooms and their many complaints.
  • Any "laboratory" work can be either simulated online or done practically within a company. You could even centralize labs to reduce cost of management.
  • Students would work during the day at a company as an apprentice, getting practical knowledge they won't touch unless they co-op or intern for a short duration.
  • There is a current argument that certain courses must be complete prior to an intern/co-op being productive, but early apprentices could do basic work just to become familiar. In ancient guilds, the first job an apprentice would have to do were remedial. But it got them in amongst the guild and learning.

The Professional Engineering License process had its beginnings with public safety in mind due to major catastrophes (New London, etc) but the unintended consequences have led to bureaucratic bloat and greed.

Am I nuts? I think this could work.




Lone Stranger
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There is still a current path to a PE License that does not require a college degree. Pass the FE and PE Exams and get your required years of experience in under the supervision of a PE and you can get it that way. It does require more years experience in the "apprenticeship" than from an ABET accredited institution.
TXTransplant
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I'm a chemical engineer. The biggest problem with this idea is a PE isn't necessary in my field. Companies want you to have the education before they hire you.

What you are describing in my industry (refining and chemicals) is the equivalent of a plant operator position (and even those have gotten so competitive that many have bachelors degrees, just not in engineering).

Co-ops and internships are already pretty much mandatory if you want a job with a top-tier company. The job doesn't make any sense of you don't understand the fundamentals of thermodynamics, heat transfer, and mass transfer. And companies want to hire students and graduates who have at least shown some proficiency in these areas.

Also, having been a professor in higher ed, I don't know why ANYONE who is capable would want to teach engineering fundamentals online. The perk of that job is tenure. Without it, you might as well go work in industry and get paid a heck of a lot better with a lot less hassle.

This idea that an engineering degree is too expensive is silly when you consider what engineers earn in starting salaries and over the lifetime of the average career.

I went to Mississippi State and it's probably where my son will go. The cost of tuition and housing is $20k per year in state and $36k per year out of state. My son has a 32 on the ACT, and with that, his GPA, and out of state tuition scholarships, he has already earned over $20k in scholarships without even formally applying (he will likely earn more once he applies).

With few exceptions, if the program is ABET accredited, it's fine. There is no reason to go hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt to get an engineering degree, especially if you are a good student. And there are plenty of good public school programs. These degrees pay for themselves after a few years of working.
Another Doug
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AG
Anyone can watch Kahn academy, brick and mortar institutions act as a filter so the graduates at least have half a brain and can work under pressure/hungover. Without this filter, who gets to be an apprentice? Also, there aren't a lot of Ye Olde Engineering Shops where people sit around and engineer all day, so an apprentice would likely just be watching some dude write emails and go to meetings.
Ciboag96
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Another Doug said:

Anyone can watch Kahn academy, brick and mortar institutions act as a filter so the graduates at least have half a brain and can work under pressure/hungover. Without this filter, who gets to be an apprentice? Also, there aren't a lot of Ye Olde Engineering Shops where people sit around and engineer all day, so an apprentice would likely just be watching some dude write emails and go to meetings.



Let's say you have some young designers, material managers or construction workers who came into the industry, are hard workers with a few years of experience, and you think they'd make great engineers because of their technical and problem solving aptitude.

Send them to College for 4 years?

What if their high school grades weren't great? Or they went to college for a year and ****ed off before going to work and growing up?

TXTransplant
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No, you send them to community college for a couple of years to take the basics. After that, high school grades don't matter. Then they transfer to a 4-year school to finish up the engineering program specific classes.

They prob won't get into UT or TAMU, but UH, Tech, UL Lafayette, and even Lamar are all decent options for someone with that kind of background.

I know a lot of people like to say they don't use anything they learned in school at work, but I call BS on a lot of that. There isn't a week that goes by that I don't draw on some science or engineering concept that I learned in school.

I personally would not want to even try to learn differential equations, advanced thermodynamics, kinetics and reactor design, mass transfer, and transport phenomena through a self-paced online course. Most people would not be self-disciplined enough to get through it.
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