Discouraging Dual Credit?

8,056 Views | 22 Replies | Last: 1 yr ago by 12Power
akaggie
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AG
My daughter is a junior in high school and has been taking dual credit courses...thinking that was the right thing to do because it would serve as evidence that she can handle tougher classes. However, today we met with an admissions advisor, and she discouraged her from taking any additional dual credit classes because it would limit her options if she needed to go the Blinn Team route because "they" might not like the fact that she had so many credits. Is this true?

DannyDuberstein
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IMO there is a happy medium. We have a fish at A&M (full admit but not top 10%, so considered that Blinn Team might be in play) and a fish in HS, and this has been a common topic of discussion at my house. Yes, dual credit and AP can be overdone, potentially eliminating Blinn Team from being an option. The program is 45 hours and you need to spend at least 2 semesters in it, so do the math to understand if you have so much HS credit that you don't have line of sight to filling out 2 semesters, it isn't a fit.

And even with full admission, it can make scheduling in those first few semesters tricky if you have a ton of lower level credit already. You show up needing to take classes deeper in your major, but pre-reqs you couldn't take in HS (and may not be able to get into right away at A&M) limit how many you can take right away, yet at the same time you don't have many lower level classes left to fill out a schedule easily. Plus, what's the rush?

All that said, I do think a HS transcript needs some of those classes to help demonstrate the kid can do next level work, help their GPA and class ranking, etc. I don't know what the magic # is, but based on my daughter's experience, it seems like somewhere in the 18 hour range, give or take, is a good happy medium. Gets them off to a solid start but doesn't eliminate options.
akaggie
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Thank you for the reply! She already has 24 hours and was going to take12 hours this summer and 9 in the fall and spring. We will definitely back off of the dual credit courses!
DannyDuberstein
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There is certainly a whole range of hours they bring. Some are showing up with associates degrees they earned in HS and are technically juniors day 1. Maybe someone with A&M admissions will chime in with where they typically cut off Blinn Team, but having heard about this situation and doing the math on the program requirements, that's where I got to that ballpark. Obviously, one other factor in play would be how many of those hours can actually be utilized toward the degree program.
HECUBUS
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Our college kid was a National AP Scholar and entered as a Junior. Placed out of Calculus I, II, III, Linear Algebra, all Physics, foreign language and most liberal arts classes. It helped a bunch getting into all kinds of honors programs, labs, etc. Skipping weed out classes is also a luxury. There was no downside. Fourth year is all senior thesis, research lab, and academic frat officer. Multiple honors degrees and minors, while working summers, MUN travel team, etc. Not all schools treat AP the same.

I went a different rout (beer guzzling slacker).
akaggie
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I would LOVE for someone from admissions to weigh in on this! My daughter is set to take 12 hours this summer and classes start Monday. I left a message for an admissions officer this morning, but no one called me back.
double b
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On a whole, AP courses are viewed as more rigorous than DC and are more widely accepted. This is especially true for the most selective of colleges.

Colleges evaluate students on their rigor based on what is available to them at their school, so I recommend pursuing the most challenging set of courses that your child can manage.
double b
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AG
Also, I doubt you're going to hear from admissions because they're not interested in saying something like that publicly, but I can see the logic in their reasoning.

Can you give us more about the district your daughter attends, percentile ranking, and test scores?
C1NRB
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DannyDuberstein said:

Obviously, one other factor in play would be how many of those hours can actually be utilized toward the degree program.


This, this, a million times this.

Be very judicious on how many and which Dual Cradit courses your kids take. Don't let the college offering the courses dictate how many and which ones your student "needs."
Not to give too much away, but I'm "in the business," although not currently in a role directly related to Dual Credit enrollment. There are only three safe bets for DC: US History 1&2 and Federal (US) Government. Everything else is a total crapshoot depending on a) intended university and b) intended major.
Colleges will tell you, "Everybody has to have 2 freshman English courses (t.u. only requires one) and everything transfers." True, but many courses eat up electives when they don't fulfill an actual degree requirement.
Be extra careful with Math courses. Flagship universities have a variety of math requirements depending on major. Unless you know for sure from the university what math is required don't waste your time with what the DC provider recommends.
I caught grief from my employer because I wouldn't sign my kids up for ALL the DC courses available because I wanted them to have options for their electives. I also know how to read a degree plan, run the calculations, and determine we needed to hold off on some underclassmen level courses in order to maintain full time status through the senior year.

I could go on. If anyone wants to hear any DC horror stories or take-it-or-leave-it advice email is username dot 91 at gmail dot com
The Dog Lord
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Agreed on many of these points. Some of the credits may not be degree applicable or take away valuable elective space. I've also seen students still starting from the beginning of a major sequence (like computer science) because none of their DC was in the major. They had to add a minor or take unnecessary coursework to be full-time.

Even those that can use a ton of credit may still be thrown into courses earlier than normal. They're not a freshman by hours, but they're usually not a Junior based on habits/preparation either. They can also feel very alienated. Their friends are at earlier stages and their classmates have been in school a while already.

I'd definitely say some DC/AP is good as a buffer for if they don't do so well at first or just to cut down on cost. 18-24 hrs is a nice range.
whoop1995
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My son got accepted to the engineering program and just completed his freshman year this year. He took ap chem in high school but had to retake at a&m because the ap class didn't have a lab with it. He does have over 21 hours to transfer in to serve as English and history, etc as to fill electives if class isn't in course structure. So we got kind of burned on the chemistry and. Biology.

We were told to take dc classes as you can always take the ap test. If you go to a school that is ap heavy this would suffice. Vice versa cannot be done however.

The other reason to take these classes was that it helps ones grade point average if scoring high on an extended grade point. My children are at a Houston high school and they deal in 7point grade point averages. So this helps as these ap and dc classes are available to k level and honors level students. Whereas regular chemistry would be on a 4 point scale. I think I explained this right although I might not have.

Also if one takes the class to push themselves they will have learned more than the average bear and have had more education.

One more thing is that by taking these classes it saves a little money which saves time as well. It also allows your child to take less classes per semester if you choose that route so they can focus on grades. 12 hrs instead of 15hrs.

Don't get caught taking less than a full time student requires (I think it's 12 hrs for fall and spring - I do not know summer) as the student will not get out of jury duty if called and that can wreck a semester depending on the case.



Bird Poo
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akaggie said:

Thank you for the reply! She already has 24 hours and was going to take12 hours this summer and 9 in the fall and spring. We will definitely back off of the dual credit courses!
My son entered A&M as a full admit wit 24 hours and that as the sweet spot.

Saves thousands on tuition, avoids dumb arse "weed out" classes, and allows him to focus on classes towards his major which raises his A&M GPA.

We were told not to take over 29 hours because then you have to transfer in as a college student and it screws up the admissions process.
HECUBUS
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Some schools offer a lot more. Ours entered a couple hours shy of junior classification. It seemed silly applying to so many universities when he was in high school. However, he would have never found that perfect fit if he didn't. All that credit was a big factor.
TheMasterplan
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double b said:

On a whole, AP courses are viewed as more rigorous than DC and are more widely accepted. This is especially true for the most selective of colleges.

Colleges evaluate students on their rigor based on what is available to them at their school, so I recommend pursuing the most challenging set of courses that your child can manage.
I think AP courses are definitely more "rigorous" however the DC courses for me were may beneficial and informative and less "bureaucratic." You got way more of a real education and students were allowed to contribute to the discussion way more.

My DC english professor also reviewed my college essays.
htxag09
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Bird Poo said:

akaggie said:

Thank you for the reply! She already has 24 hours and was going to take12 hours this summer and 9 in the fall and spring. We will definitely back off of the dual credit courses!
My son entered A&M as a full admit wit 24 hours and that as the sweet spot.

Saves thousands on tuition, avoids dumb arse "weed out" classes, and allows him to focus on classes towards his major which raises his A&M GPA.

We were told not to take over 29 hours because then you have to transfer in as a college student and it screws up the admissions process.
Honest question, if someone were to take over 29 hours couldn't they essentially just not use the hours to avoid any frustration? Same as if they're having issues with Blinn Team? I get it's not ideal and basically harder classes and now you're getting the credit, but I know I picked and chose which credits to carry through when I enrolled at A&M. For example, I could have gotten math credits but chose not to because I didn't want to miss anything (engineering major).
gig em 02
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Why don't you maximize cheap dual credit hours, then if they don't get into A&M go to another school and finish their bachelors in 2 years then go to A&M for a masters?
GoAgs92
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A&M wants to squeeze every penny out of you if your not auto admit.

My kid had something like 36 AP hours…so tem blinn was a no go.
mccjames
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So here are my thoughts as a parent of a Sr who came into A&M with 21 hours of AP credit, 1480 SAT but due to a non ranking small HS she went 1 year through Blinn Team.

If you are 100% certain of the degree you want and you want to get in and out as soon as possible throw all the hours out there.

However, a BIG however, there are tons of restrictions on transferring into different degrees if you have too many hours. A BIGGER problem is that you will be given out of state tuition if you exceed 30 hours beyond your degree.
It does not seem a big deal but my daughter has multiple friends who have had to be very, very careful not to hit those numbers.

AP credits you can keep in your pocket and use them when or IF you need to. College Course credits are there so I do not think you can play games with those.

I would HIGHLY recommend you reach out to the department your student is planning on enrolling into and ask these questions.

Blinn Team note: It was a great program! They told my daughter to sit on her AP till Soph or Jr year. She made 4.0 and moved out of team after 2 semesters. We encouraged her to take some classes that were not in her major (university does not encourage this, they want you in and out ASAP) and only used 9 hours of AP. She is set to Graduate on time if she wishes but has some room in hours to go an extra semester if she chooses to. She just finished as the Chair for the Blue Camp in Session G of Fish Camp and said it was amazing how many Blinn Team people she met as Chairs and Counselors. They really wanted to come to A&M and it shows in their participation.
one MEEN Ag
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Is your daughter a likely candidate for blinn team versus being directly admitted to A&M? Blinn Team is different than Blinn then trying to transfer like its any old college. Blinn Team is a set coursework that tracks to an assured admittance into A&M if you perform. So DC in high school would remove opportunities for either A) Blinn to make money off of you, or B) Your daughter to use the grades (not just the pass/fail) to help push her over the GPA required to be auto admitted.

If your daughter isn't a likely candidate for Blinn and is going to make A&M outright, look at how the DC tracks to their degree and try to cover as many core courses as possible, then DC for electives.

As a side note, only the kids who are so smart they don't really have to worry about admissions into A&M should be testing out of calculus and physics. The high school courses just aren't rigorous enough even if they are AP or DC. I knew lots of very smart kids who opted out of various math courses. Only the NMS level kids didn't struggle when they finally took the upper level math.
12th Man Ag
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Quote:

We were told not to take over 29 hours because then you have to transfer in as a college student and it screws up the admissions process.

My daughter had 39 AP/DC credits and this was not the case.

Also, as someone said earlier, AP credit can be applied when you are ready. DC credit hits the transcript immediately.

DC and AP are great financially, but cause some issues for kids who aren't sure of their major. Doesn't really allow time to "check" things out. My daughter just started at A&M six weeks ago and has to apply for upper level in Mays in the Spring! I changed my major six times at A&M. Can't do that anymore.
double b
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TheMasterplan said:

double b said:

On a whole, AP courses are viewed as more rigorous than DC and are more widely accepted. This is especially true for the most selective of colleges.

Colleges evaluate students on their rigor based on what is available to them at their school, so I recommend pursuing the most challenging set of courses that your child can manage.
I think AP courses are definitely more "rigorous" however the DC courses for me were may beneficial and informative and less "bureaucratic." You got way more of a real education and students were allowed to contribute to the discussion way more.

My DC english professor also reviewed my college essays.
Your DC may have been more rigorous, but that does not matter in the eyes of the college admission reviewers. For one, DC courses only guarantee credit for Texas-based colleges, not out-of-state. Also, the rigor of DC courses is a crap shoot. AP courses are standardized nationally, and student can back up their knowledge mastery with AP scores. If your goal for college is Texas A&M or UT, then DC courses will probably suit you well except in the math and sciences.
BoDog
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Super late to this thread but reading through it got me thinking.... Given it is 10x easier to transfer into A&M vs being admitted from HS, for those with 30+ DC hours why wouldn't you just apply as a sophomore (or junior when applicable) transfer and get in via that route?
12Power
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If you are planning on going engineering route, you will be taking the math again at A&M. Not sure about any science. They want make sure E majors were taught correctly and can handle it.
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