Wife and I are both late 80's grads and still very engaged with the university. We have two kids in school there and know many others. Their stories of careless faculty and incompetent staff are becoming so commonplace, I'm beginning to believe there is a systemic problem. Also see our USN&WR rankings drop each year. What is Dr. Young doing? He arrived with great fanfare and seems to have done nothing notable. The only Dean who seems to be working to improve faculty and staff is Dr. Banks and she gets a ton of grief for the 20 by 20 initiative. Makes me miss Robert Gates and Dr. Loftin.
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Terrible student experiences with faculty and staff
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Last: 7 yr ago by BigDog12
Flood the university with thousands more students than it is staffed to handle. You are seeing the results. Welcome to the diploma mill era.
"The only Dean who seems to be working to improve faculty and staff is Dr. Banks"
Dr. Eli Jones is on line one. What a far-reaching boat load of malarkey.
Dr. Eli Jones is on line one. What a far-reaching boat load of malarkey.
RAB87 said:
The only Dean who seems to be working to improve faculty and staff is Dr. Banks.
She is the problem.
Perhaps I shouldn't have mentioned Dr. Banks. She is certainly responsible for trying to fulfill our growth obligations as a land grant university. At the same time, she is the first Dean of Engineering in decades to raise a single dollar for facilities and she is working to dramatically move the freshman/sophomore engineering curriculum to something that is applied and relevant. Time will tell.
I would totally disagree that she is the problem though. The worst experiences we hear about are in the sciences, geosciences, allied health, and even the education departments. Just an incredible apathy toward students. No interest in innovative teaching methods, mentoring, and helping prepare students for real-world challenges. We had our share of this in the 80's but could still point to faculty and staff who cared deeply about the students. Don't hear much of that anymore.
I would totally disagree that she is the problem though. The worst experiences we hear about are in the sciences, geosciences, allied health, and even the education departments. Just an incredible apathy toward students. No interest in innovative teaching methods, mentoring, and helping prepare students for real-world challenges. We had our share of this in the 80's but could still point to faculty and staff who cared deeply about the students. Don't hear much of that anymore.
I'm a staff member in the college of science. I'm so sorry that your kids feel that way. It is easy for kids to feel lost at A&M. It's worse for kids from smaller high schools.
In my job I come in contact with about 5000 students each semester. I see most of them once a week. I try to talk to them, and let them know that I'm there if they need help. But, the only ones that I really get to know are the ones with problems. If a student is seriously injured or sick, or has some kind of tragedy in their lives, they'll end up making up a lot of classes. That's how I'll come across them usually. I have a running prayer list for kids I'm keeping an eye on. This fall I had 3 kids who lost a parent, one with a dislocated shoulder and 2 surgeries, one who was from China and was very sad and felt very alone at A&M, one with a service dog trying to figure out how to "do college", one on a scholarship that required her to make a 3.75 or she had to leave A&M, one boy in the corp trying to decide if he should stay in college or just join the Army, and so on. If a student is "normal", then I usually don't talk to them much other than to say hi, etc. Again, I see 5000 students a week. And I'm just in a support staff position.
Most of the professors in my department are good people who genuinely care about their students, but they average 900 students each semester. It's the same way for them, they really only get to know the students with problems. The average student, who goes to class, turns in assignments and goes on with their day, is unfortunately invisible.
I hope that your kids will be successful at A&M, and I think it's better once they get to upper level classes, but the first 2 years are rough. It's part of the growing up process though. An older lady once told me that children need to go to kindergarten to learn that only their mother thinks that the world revolves around them. College is the same way. And it's hard. I watch them struggle. But I believe that it will make them into better people in the long run.
I haven't been on the parent side of this yet, my oldest child is in middle school. But I watch these kids come in each semester, and I try to keep an eye out for the ones that need help.
From one parent to another, please know that there are thousands of other staff members and faculty that are watching.
Merry Christmas to you and your family, and good luck to your kids on finals!
In my job I come in contact with about 5000 students each semester. I see most of them once a week. I try to talk to them, and let them know that I'm there if they need help. But, the only ones that I really get to know are the ones with problems. If a student is seriously injured or sick, or has some kind of tragedy in their lives, they'll end up making up a lot of classes. That's how I'll come across them usually. I have a running prayer list for kids I'm keeping an eye on. This fall I had 3 kids who lost a parent, one with a dislocated shoulder and 2 surgeries, one who was from China and was very sad and felt very alone at A&M, one with a service dog trying to figure out how to "do college", one on a scholarship that required her to make a 3.75 or she had to leave A&M, one boy in the corp trying to decide if he should stay in college or just join the Army, and so on. If a student is "normal", then I usually don't talk to them much other than to say hi, etc. Again, I see 5000 students a week. And I'm just in a support staff position.
Most of the professors in my department are good people who genuinely care about their students, but they average 900 students each semester. It's the same way for them, they really only get to know the students with problems. The average student, who goes to class, turns in assignments and goes on with their day, is unfortunately invisible.
I hope that your kids will be successful at A&M, and I think it's better once they get to upper level classes, but the first 2 years are rough. It's part of the growing up process though. An older lady once told me that children need to go to kindergarten to learn that only their mother thinks that the world revolves around them. College is the same way. And it's hard. I watch them struggle. But I believe that it will make them into better people in the long run.
I haven't been on the parent side of this yet, my oldest child is in middle school. But I watch these kids come in each semester, and I try to keep an eye out for the ones that need help.
From one parent to another, please know that there are thousands of other staff members and faculty that are watching.
Merry Christmas to you and your family, and good luck to your kids on finals!
Beautiful comments, JaneDoe02. Thank you. The university could use more like you.
With the number of people I had in some of my classes in engineering I would have preferred to just watch online lectures and show up for tests. Having too many students per teacher is low quality education in my opinion whether or not all public schools have the same setup.
Thank you, Thank you JaneDoe! As a parent of a sophmore Corps Boy I am happy to hear there is someone looking out for the students. I do think it gets better after the first two years. My oldest, Class of '11 saw the same issues though at that time the Corps had academic advisors that were a life saver. Now, the one go to person is so bogged down you can't speak to her. Progression, I don't think so.
My dad and aunt have both taught college classes for decades. Grading some of their papers, I've seen the work kids turn in in math and computer science classes and how its changed over the last 20+ years. My relatives are pretty apathetic toward students that turn in crap work and don't seek help from them after they've gotten bad grades on the first test. Top halves of their classes do fine. Of the bottom half, only about 25% of those seek HELP. The rest ask to have their grades raised at the end of the year after they've failed. They're teaching subjects they're passionate about to students that often don't care about the subject matter. Many Students only want the answer for their grade and don't care about how you got it or about wanting to understand the concepts that go with a problem. And this is a newer trend that's become very widespread over the last decade.RAB87 said:
Just an incredible apathy toward students. No interest in innovative teaching methods, mentoring, and helping prepare students for real-world challenges. We had our share of this in the 80's but could still point to faculty and staff who cared deeply about the students. Don't hear much of that anymore.
What type of real-world challenges are you talking about? Like how to apply for a mortgage or something applicable to the subject like how to write a computer program that can be inserted into a larger software package? If you're continuing on in the class subject, I feel like every class I ever took at A&M and my relatives' tests and homework all had real world problems in the lectures and tests.
Personally, I think my relatives are TOO caring about their students. They know quite a bit about their students' personal lives and challenges and have helped kids identify job opportunities. In my opinion, a professor's responsibility should be to present the information in a clear and concise manner, and it should be the student's job to learn it sufficiently and get help when they don't understand. Innovative teaching methods sounds like something the crazy high school teacher does to try to interest students in a subject they have no interest in. In college, that responsibility shifts to the student.
How, specifically, are the profs showing apathy towards students and not preparing them or caring about them? Is it more of a problem when there are 200 kids in the class? Problem with foreign-born professors?
agnerd said:My dad and aunt have both taught college classes for decades. Grading some of their papers, I've seen the work kids turn in in math and computer science classes and how its changed over the last 20+ years. My relatives are pretty apathetic toward students that turn in crap work and don't seek help from them after they've gotten bad grades on the first test. Top halves of their classes do fine. Of the bottom half, only about 25% of those seek HELP. The rest ask to have their grades raised at the end of the year after they've failed. They're teaching subjects they're passionate about to students that often don't care about the subject matter. Many Students only want the answer for their grade and don't care about how you got it or about wanting to understand the concepts that go with a problem. And this is a newer trend that's become very widespread over the last decade.RAB87 said:
Just an incredible apathy toward students. No interest in innovative teaching methods, mentoring, and helping prepare students for real-world challenges. We had our share of this in the 80's but could still point to faculty and staff who cared deeply about the students. Don't hear much of that anymore.
What type of real-world challenges are you talking about? Like how to apply for a mortgage or something applicable to the subject like how to write a computer program that can be inserted into a larger software package? If you're continuing on in the class subject, I feel like every class I ever took at A&M and my relatives' tests and homework all had real world problems in the lectures and tests.
Personally, I think my relatives are TOO caring about their students. They know quite a bit about their students' personal lives and challenges and have helped kids identify job opportunities. In my opinion, a professor's responsibility should be to present the information in a clear and concise manner, and it should be the student's job to learn it sufficiently and get help when they don't understand. Innovative teaching methods sounds like something the crazy high school teacher does to try to interest students in a subject they have no interest in. In college, that responsibility shifts to the student.
How, specifically, are the profs showing apathy towards students and not preparing them or caring about them? Is it more of a problem when there are 200 kids in the class? Problem with foreign-born professors?
I think you're right. I wish I had gone back and spent more time learning how to get the answer but I was more worried about being able to pass and not get kicked out of my degree to worry about that unfortunately.
I will say I did well in math 151/152 and the weekly reviews and test reviews really helped.
TheMasterplan said:
I will say I did well in math 151/152 and the weekly reviews and test reviews really helped.
Agree. I think with some students the only explanation is a lack of effort. For some courses, especially 151/152, there are so many resources available (weekly review, amy austin videos, old exams, etc.) that if you can't get it then you either aren't trying hard enough/don't want it or don't have the quantitative ability that you thought you did when entering an engineering program.
would idiots like you please stop with the "growth obligations" for being a land grant crap
that is total and complete nonsense there is no mandate or obligation to grow or to serve a massive amount of students because of land grant status
in fact the Morrill Act allows STATES to decide what type of university their land grant will be
if A&M and the A&M System choose for College Station to be large and to have only semi-difficult admissions standards relative to a number of other land grant universities that is on A&M and the A&M System and no one else
also the REALITY is that the only real mandate that A&M has comes from PUF participation and that is for "excellence" and A&M is far from meeting THAT mandate
get a clue
that is total and complete nonsense there is no mandate or obligation to grow or to serve a massive amount of students because of land grant status
in fact the Morrill Act allows STATES to decide what type of university their land grant will be
if A&M and the A&M System choose for College Station to be large and to have only semi-difficult admissions standards relative to a number of other land grant universities that is on A&M and the A&M System and no one else
also the REALITY is that the only real mandate that A&M has comes from PUF participation and that is for "excellence" and A&M is far from meeting THAT mandate
get a clue
FacebookFriend said:
would idiots like you please stop with the "growth obligations" for being a land grant crap
that is total and complete nonsense there is no mandate or obligation to grow or to serve a massive amount of students because of land grant status
in fact the Morrill Act allows STATES to decide what type of university their land grant will be
if A&M and the A&M System choose for College Station to be large and to have only semi-difficult admissions standards relative to a number of other land grant universities that is on A&M and the A&M System and no one else
also the REALITY is that the only real mandate that A&M has comes from PUF participation and that is for "excellence" and A&M is far from meeting THAT mandate
get a clue
I'm very sorry at what has happened. I would still do just fine as a student in an anonymous setting like TAMU, but the experience wouldn't be as rich. We've chosen to live in NC and not return to A&M as faculty and Id bet my kids won't go to A&M.
Interesting.VanZandt92 said:
I'm very sorry at what has happened. I would still do just fine as a student in an anonymous setting like TAMU, but the experience wouldn't be as rich. We've chosen to live in NC and not return to A&M as faculty and Id bet my kids won't go to A&M.
If I am understanding you correctly, you had a chance to be a faculty member at A&M, but turned it down mainly because of the decline in academic quality of the school?
sargentmanziel said:Interesting.VanZandt92 said:
I'm very sorry at what has happened. I would still do just fine as a student in an anonymous setting like TAMU, but the experience wouldn't be as rich. We've chosen to live in NC and not return to A&M as faculty and Id bet my kids won't go to A&M.
If I am understanding you correctly, you had a chance to be a faculty member at A&M, but turned it down mainly because of the decline in academic quality of the school?
I am in the same boat. No one in their right mind would take a job at TAMU unless they are a fresh asst prof (especially not in social sciences or liberal arts). They called me and asked me if I would apply for open positions, and I have turned them down. My kids are happy to apply to universities around here with a better academic ranking and trajectory.
CrottyKid said:sargentmanziel said:Interesting.VanZandt92 said:
I'm very sorry at what has happened. I would still do just fine as a student in an anonymous setting like TAMU, but the experience wouldn't be as rich. We've chosen to live in NC and not return to A&M as faculty and Id bet my kids won't go to A&M.
If I am understanding you correctly, you had a chance to be a faculty member at A&M, but turned it down mainly because of the decline in academic quality of the school?
I am in the same boat. No one in their right mind would take a job at TAMU unless they are a fresh asst prof (especially not in social sciences or liberal arts). They called me and asked me if I would apply for open positions, and I have turned them down. My kids are happy to apply to universities around here with a better academic ranking and trajectory.
Yes. I work at an ACC school and we are grooming our kids for UNC,Wake Forest, NC State or Clemson. I will certainly take my kids to TAMU any time they wish, but I stopped talking it up. Of course being out of state makes that easier.
I continue to love A&M and still cheer anybody in faculty on 100 percent.
It would appear we have snowflakes at A&M, and they all post on Texags. The fact is, the overwhelming percentage of A&M's students report that they have a good experience at A&M. According to this website, A&M ranks 7th nationally in student satisfaction among public universities.
http://www.bestcolleges.com/features/high-student-satisfaction/
Do some students have bad experiences? Sure they do. Is the problem reflective of the attitudes expressed on Texags? Not hardly. JaneDoe02 is the rule, not the exception, when it comes to staff and faculty at A&M. Should A&M aspire to do better? Of course. But this belief that A&M is a train wreck for students is a complete myth.
So, snowflakes (and their enabling parents), toughen up. You are in the minority..
http://www.bestcolleges.com/features/high-student-satisfaction/
Do some students have bad experiences? Sure they do. Is the problem reflective of the attitudes expressed on Texags? Not hardly. JaneDoe02 is the rule, not the exception, when it comes to staff and faculty at A&M. Should A&M aspire to do better? Of course. But this belief that A&M is a train wreck for students is a complete myth.
So, snowflakes (and their enabling parents), toughen up. You are in the minority..
If "the state" decides they want their land grant university to produce 20,000 engineering grads by 2020, then that's on "the state". No?FacebookFriend said:
would idiots like you please stop with the "growth obligations" for being a land grant crap
that is total and complete nonsense there is no mandate or obligation to grow or to serve a massive amount of students because of land grant status
in fact the Morrill Act allows STATES to decide what type of university their land grant will be
if A&M and the A&M System choose for College Station to be large and to have only semi-difficult admissions standards relative to a number of other land grant universities that is on A&M and the A&M System and no one else
also the REALITY is that the only real mandate that A&M has comes from PUF participation and that is for "excellence" and A&M is far from meeting THAT mandate
get a clue
well this is not a relevant question since THE STATE did NOT decide thisjblaschke said:If "the state" decides they want their land grant university to produce 20,000 engineering grads by 2020, then that's on "the state". No?FacebookFriend said:
would idiots like you please stop with the "growth obligations" for being a land grant crap
that is total and complete nonsense there is no mandate or obligation to grow or to serve a massive amount of students because of land grant status
in fact the Morrill Act allows STATES to decide what type of university their land grant will be
if A&M and the A&M System choose for College Station to be large and to have only semi-difficult admissions standards relative to a number of other land grant universities that is on A&M and the A&M System and no one else
also the REALITY is that the only real mandate that A&M has comes from PUF participation and that is for "excellence" and A&M is far from meeting THAT mandate
get a clue
an idiot names john not so sharp made the decision
"the state" does not make those types of mandates on universities currently and never has in the past
some can PRETEND that "the state" has made that decision, but they are only lying to themselves to try and absolve an idiot chancellor from what HE is responsible for
this is easily PROVEN as well
if one goes to the "closing the gaps" accountability page linked here
http://www.txhighereddata.org/Interactive/Accountability/UNIV_Participation.cfm
and they go to the drop down menu on the top left and they choose Texas A&M College Station
they will see the 2015 target was 51,000 students and they can see the actual 2015 enrollment was 58,515
it should also be noted that does NOT include Galveston which has their own listing on there was well
and it should be noted that the 51,000 goal was set BEFORE the merger of the HSC under the main campus
so SOME of those extra 7,000+ students over and above that 2015 goal are from the HSC merger, but a number of them are NOT as well
so again there was NO MANDATE from the state to turn A&M into U Phoenix College Station
one can see the complete report here
http://www.txhighereddata.org/Interactive/Accountability/UNIV_Complete_PDF.cfm?FICE=003632
and when one looks at a number of factors like federal research dollars, graduation rates, total EXPENSES per student ect it seems that A&M is getting ZERO benefit from their massive size and in fact it looks as though as A&M grows they DECLINE in efficiency in terms of expenses per student and they are not close to competitive with top "peer" (wishful thinking) universities in terms of grant funding when it is compared based on the fact that A&M has a much larger faculty count than many of those they are compared to
further proof can be seen here
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=3&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwiupfbcydbRAhUoxFQKHQCtAa4QFggqMAI&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.thecb.state.tx.us%2Fdownload.cfm%3Fdownloadfile%3D26D44CC8-B9CB-FA02-0665D0AC7867F646%26typename%3DdmFile%26fieldname%3Dfilename&usg=AFQjCNGIko5D4UfDDMIqm7vLbaTUEstv3A&sig2=dhJJJOXBK99npnyqodvjUA
a report from Jan 2013 the HEIGHT of the Rick Perry regime projecting enrollments for 2020
UT Austin was projected to DECLINE by 2,000 students while A&M was projected to hold steady at about 53,000 students excluding the Galveston Campus
so now we are all suppose to put out heads in our asses and ignore the fact that A&M was already blowing past that in Fall of 2013 with 58,000+ combined (CS, G and HSC) and suddenly the state of Texas went from projecting 53,000 students in Jan of 2013 to be enrolled in 2020 to now A&M needing to have 20,000 engineering majors by the near future and A&M leadership was so stupid they ran right out there and got to 66,000+ students by Fall of 2016 and totally lost control of efficiency along the way and lost the control of the ability to serve students
while EVERY other university in the state has stuck to a moderate growth plan and tried to either control or actually ENHANCE the freshman and undergrad experience along the way to meeting their 2015 and 2020 projections (that seemingly have not changed for ANY of the others)
A&M students and alumni are still so stupid and ignorant they are clinging to this ridiculous belief that A&M and ONLY A&M can possibly do ANYTHING to keep top HS graduates in the state and that A&M and ONLY A&M is the answer to that issue
while ignoring the fact that UTD in particular has seen steady (and impressive growth) along with a much better freshman experience all while RISING dramatically in a number of overall and departmental rankings
and Texas Tech, UH and Texas State in particular have more than held their own with steady PLANNED growth and stayed pretty consistent in rankings and are poised to probably make some improvements in those over the next few years as PLANNED growth and student experiences come to fruition
A&M meanwhile has become the defacto "safety school" for many students as they take in a MASSIVE amount of applicants.....accept a MASSIVE amount of them and then watch a MASSIVE amount of those ACCEPTED students choose to ENROLL ELSEWHERE
and the excuse made for that is "well our "yield" is still the same as other schools"
while ignoring the fact that other schools that have a similar % of applicants accepted and then a similar % of students accepted that actually enroll often to not have even the number of APPLICANTS as A&M has ACCEPTED STUDENTS THAT ENROLL ELSEWHERE
and yet there are still some that are so stupid they think that you will get 12,000+ ACCEPTED students that made a CHOICE to ENROLL ELSEWHERE to somehow choose A&M if you just make sure they have to eat on the floor in the student mess and they have plenty of classes with 200+ students in them and brand new professors
because everyone wants to go to a massively over crowded university with massive classes, declining rankings and decreasing efficiencies and a lesser overall undergrad experience.....yea that makes total sense
those 12,000 ACCEPTED students that CHOSE to go ELSEWHERE just wished A&M was a bigger school.....that is why they CHOSE A MUCH SMALLER SCHOOL (and we know this because there are only about 2 other universities in the country close to the size of A&M NOW)
Gigem314
FINAL from Olsen Field at BBP: No. 1 Texas A&M 13, Houston 11
in Billy Liucci's TexAgs Premium
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