fixer said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Have any proof of it, or jyst towing the tech-bro mgmt line?

Funny, I know people with decades of experience in th tech sector who are highly skilled and motivated that are 1000+ applications in, some of them to companies importing people on H1b visas because they "can't find" workers.

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Proof?

Ask anyone to name the last Fields medal winner vs the last NFL mvp.

This isn't about just " tech". It is about cultural priorities.

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Can someone explain this lazy American work culture idealism? He seems to use the tech sector to paint a broad brush about American workers. You ever been out to the oil fields in west Texas, Alaska, dakotas? What about the doctors, nurses, mechanics, hvac, plumbing, electricians, steel, welders, farmers, ranchers etc.? I don't see a culture of lazy losers…I see millions of hard working Americans out there hustling and many working more than one job to put food on the table and chase the American dream. Many voted for trump because despite their best efforts of busting ass, they have still fallen behind over the last 4 years…and oh no they might watch a ball game on their 1-2 day off a week or catch their kids sports game.

Drip99 said:

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fixer said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Have any proof of it, or jyst towing the tech-bro mgmt line?

Funny, I know people with decades of experience in th tech sector who are highly skilled and motivated that are 1000+ applications in, some of them to companies importing people on H1b visas because they "can't find" workers.

---

Proof?

Ask anyone to name the last Fields medal winner vs the last NFL mvp.

This isn't about just " tech". It is about cultural priorities.

---

Can someone explain this lazy American work culture idealism? He seems to use the tech sector to paint a broad brush about American workers. You ever been out to the oil fields in west Texas, Alaska, dakotas? What about the doctors, nurses, mechanics, hvac, plumbing, electricians, steel, welders, farmers, ranchers etc.? I don't see a culture of lazy losers…I see millions of hard working Americans out there hustling and many working more than one job to put food on the table and chase the American dream. Many voted for trump because despite their best efforts of busting ass, they have still fallen behind over the last 4 years…and oh no they might watch a ball game on their 1-2 day off a week or catch their kids sports game.

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Didn't you know? Taking days off is an indication of being lazy and entitled.

It's made up nonsense being used to justify importing cheap labor and ignore a failing economy.

Ag_of_08 said:

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It's made up nonsense being used to justify importing cheap labor and ignore a failing economy.

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Pretty much what I figured. Likely comes across as a slap in the face to many Americans though

Vivek is right about our education system and culture to a point.

That's not the hole that most H1-B visas are filling, though. Some, yes, a majority, no. So he's wrong about that. More H1-Bs is not the answer.

Samsung is building a fab in Taylor, TX and they are dumping a significant amount of money into the local education system so that in 5-10 years they can reap the benefits and cultivate local, educated Americans (or at least the people already here) to supply the labor for their fab.

Elon also did this with Tesla. He required robotics being taught starting in 2nd grade for all the grants that Tesla awarded Del Valle ISD.

This is a problem that private industry can solve and government needs to stop importing people and let our native children be trained and prepared to take these jobs.

America(ns) First.

That's ****in bull*****

Out of college in 2008 with a finance degree - it took me 12 months to find an energy trading job. Until then I was waiting tables and running a bar at a private golf course. They were in the process of making me the head of the restaurant when I quit for my "career." Circumstances were rough but in 12 months I was trading commodities.

12 months later that company sold and I was out of a job. Within 2 weeks I had another job making 35k more base salary doing the same thing. Since then, I've changed my career, but haven't willingly lost a job until June this year. It was sort of mutual, but I wasn't looking. Again, employed in 2 weeks.

If you're worth a ****, you can find a job.

It's incredibly Insulting, and will be brought up everytime vivek speaks in the future.

It's absolutely infuriating for people trying to get into sectors that should have space but won't actually hire.

The country is in trouble, and people are playing the "rules for thee but not for me" and refusing to address issues.

MemphisAg1 said:

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Worked for two Fortune 500's for over 30 years. The last 20 years or so we could not fill all of our tech-heavy roles without sponsoring talent from other countries on H1B visas. Preferred to hire US employees if at possible, but there wasn't enough to fill the roles. These were high paying jobs. It wasn't a matter of being cheap. Year after year after year. Don't blame companies for hiring foreigners if they can't get enough local talent. The bigger question is why aren't there enough qualified Americans to fill these high paying jobs?

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The disconnect you have is so incredibly profound, you're not even in the same reality as most of the rest of the world.

Pay attention to any media source, conservative or liberal. And you'll see how ridiculously bad the job market is. You can use that four letter vocabulary all you want, you still don't know what you're talking about.

According to CNBC, median CEO pay of S&P 500 is $16.3M. It's a 1200% increase since 1978. Median employee pay over the same time period is up 24%

I can buy the argument that the labor pool is bigger now so increased supply means less wages. And Americans now have to compete with foreign labor. But how do you reconcile that with executive talent. Is there that much of a shortage in executive talent they need to be compensated so much more?

Ok buddy.

June this year… let that sink in. I made 1 phone call to the president of a competitor and had one other company recruit me.

Idk what to tell you if you don't know how to be valuable .

MemphisAg1 said:

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Worked for two Fortune 500's for over 30 years. The last 20 years or so we could not fill all of our tech-heavy roles without sponsoring talent from other countries on H1B visas. Preferred to hire US employees if at possible, but there wasn't enough to fill the roles. These were high paying jobs. It wasn't a matter of being cheap. Year after year after year. Don't blame companies for hiring foreigners if they can't get enough local talent. The bigger question is why aren't there enough qualified Americans to fill these high paying jobs?

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Perhaps it's because it was legal to discriminate against people based on skin color and ignore their merits for the last 2 or 3 decades, so in the name of "equity" we subsidized a class of barely qualified people to take (read: waste) their spots in elite college programs?

Woods Ag said:

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Ok buddy.

June this year… let that sink in. I made 1 phone call to the president of a competitor and had one other company recruit me.

Idk what to tell you if you don't know how to be valuable .

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Im glad you, who has nearly two decades in your industry under 40, was able to get a job through an industry connection. Your 1 anecdotal example does not serve as an indicator of the job market for entry and mid level people. I'm glad YOU got lucky, but you aren't even in the experience/pay bracket that's being discussed.

So cool story bra', glad for you. You're still not connected to the reality for the average job seeker...

Did you read the first part of my OP?

Your unwillingness to "pull yourself up by your bootstraps" is bc you're a *****.

Don't take offense - you bought into the narrative that you just had to get a degree and good future would be given to you.

The strong survive. Go find a way to be better than your competition and that foreigner won't take your job. Idc the stage of your career.

I can tell you more. I grew up traveling with my pops hitting drilling rigs and picking up used drill bits. We took them home and I tapped them with a sledge hammer with a water hose trinking over them until I could get them to spin freely and we'd resell/rent them. My dad scraped a living together and put me thru college.got my hardship license at 15 and I spent 15-22 running all across the gulf coast and Permian basin by myself or with a friend doing the same picking up casings and drill bits and learning out to scavenge to pay for school and life.

MemphisAg1 said:

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Worked for two Fortune 500's for over 30 years. The last 20 years or so we could not fill all of our tech-heavy roles without sponsoring talent from other countries on H1B visas. Preferred to hire US employees if at possible, but there wasn't enough to fill the roles. These were high paying jobs. It wasn't a matter of being cheap. Year after year after year. Don't blame companies for hiring foreigners if they can't get enough local talent. The bigger question is why aren't there enough qualified Americans to fill these high paying jobs?

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Maybe HR sucks at their job. When I decided to leave my PhD program, hardly anyone would interview me for tech roles despite my math and programming skills.

Im glad you know anything about me. You can come on a blackwater dive with me one day and call me that over comms.

I bought intonthe idea that jobs would exist in this country, and hard work might pay off. Instead, we're bleeding jobs out, with companies not hiring half the people that need jobs, and still importing or offshoring every entry level jobs.

I get it, you made it, so you can thumb your nose at the little people. It's all about the ego, it can't be that opportunities don't exist, or that some people stumble into situations, while others bust their ass their whole lives to fall flat....nah, that can't be true because you don't think it's true for you.

TRM said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Worked for two Fortune 500's for over 30 years. The last 20 years or so we could not fill all of our tech-heavy roles without sponsoring talent from other countries on H1B visas. Preferred to hire US employees if at possible, but there wasn't enough to fill the roles. These were high paying jobs. It wasn't a matter of being cheap. Year after year after year. Don't blame companies for hiring foreigners if they can't get enough local talent. The bigger question is why aren't there enough qualified Americans to fill these high paying jobs?

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Maybe HR sucks at their job. When I decided to leave my PhD program, hardly anyone would interview me for tech roles despite my math and programming skills.

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This is a constant issue, and across every industry.... have craploads of experience/ability/credentials... even references. No call back, much less an interview or job.

Life ain't fair. The strong survive.

I was in one of the poorest states in India for a month this summer. Americans don't understand the real struggle

Ah, so there's no real response, just platitudes and posturing.

Also curious you're so passionate about this form of immigration and crapping on the average American, but likely voted for an anti immigration agenda. Let me guess, you profit from this one?

No real response..

You're constantly making excuses on this website. I'll leave it at that.

How do I profit? I want legal immigration. Come here legally and you're welcome to go be as successful as you can be. The end.

I'm not so insecure as to worry that they are taking from me.

Who would you want in battle, in a foxhole. A real American.

TRM said:

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MemphisAg1 said:

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Worked for two Fortune 500's for over 30 years. The last 20 years or so we could not fill all of our tech-heavy roles without sponsoring talent from other countries on H1B visas. Preferred to hire US employees if at possible, but there wasn't enough to fill the roles. These were high paying jobs. It wasn't a matter of being cheap. Year after year after year. Don't blame companies for hiring foreigners if they can't get enough local talent. The bigger question is why aren't there enough qualified Americans to fill these high paying jobs?

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Maybe HR sucks at their job. When I decided to leave my PhD program, hardly anyone would interview me for tech roles despite my math and programming skills.

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HR does suck at their job. They're not looking for qualified candidates, they're looking for the few people that can meet their absurd qualifications for a pay of pennies.

They didn't call you back because you were "overqualified." I had the same problem with two masters degrees, entry-level jobs paying $15 an hour wouldn't call me back. Anything else required years of experience so they'd toss the resume immediately. So I was pretty much stuck looking for government jobs.

Anyone that hasn't tried to get an entry or mid level job in the last 5 years doesn't know what the job market is like. There is no fair market competition for labor, the competition is between you, the foreigner with a fake diploma and resume that a "talent" firm is farming out for cheap, and another applicant that checks the DEI box the big wigs want so they get more funding from the banks. The foreigner usually checks that, too.

Figure out and reach out to the hiring manager directly. LinkedIn and Email. It's easy enough to figure out email formats and email someone directly. Be persistent and follow up every 3-5 days… at least 3x and then give it 2 weeks and follow up again. I may even call them, but you need to be prepared. If you're not used to cold calling then that may be rough

If you're apply thru a job forum you're asking to be thrown out. Consider yourself lucky if guy get hired through that route.

Digital "pound the pavement"...

https://x.com/i/spaces/1dRJZdNXdnmKB

X spaces are the new town-square. The media is dead. People are talking to each other again about ideas in good faith, instead of just being lectured by ******s on the news.

Even if you mostly agree with people, disagreement is a good thing to figure **** out -- this board is a good example, imo.

ETA: Adrian, the person that sounds almost exactly like Elon Musk, is not Elon Musk.

MemphisAg1 said:

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Worked for two Fortune 500's for over 30 years. The last 20 years or so we could not fill all of our tech-heavy roles without sponsoring talent from other countries on H1B visas. Preferred to hire US employees if at possible, but there wasn't enough to fill the roles. These were high paying jobs. It wasn't a matter of being cheap. Year after year after year. Don't blame companies for hiring foreigners if they can't get enough local talent. The bigger question is why aren't there enough qualified Americans to fill these high paying jobs?

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Well, some SW types think that 2 yrs experience warrants $200K/yr...

Drip99 said:

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fixer said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Have any proof of it, or jyst towing the tech-bro mgmt line?

Funny, I know people with decades of experience in th tech sector who are highly skilled and motivated that are 1000+ applications in, some of them to companies importing people on H1b visas because they "can't find" workers.

---

Proof?

Ask anyone to name the last Fields medal winner vs the last NFL mvp.

This isn't about just " tech". It is about cultural priorities.

---

Can someone explain this lazy American work culture idealism? He seems to use the tech sector to paint a broad brush about American workers. You ever been out to the oil fields in west Texas, Alaska, dakotas? What about the doctors, nurses, mechanics, hvac, plumbing, electricians, steel, welders, farmers, ranchers etc.? I don't see a culture of lazy losers…I see millions of hard working Americans out there hustling and many working more than one job to put food on the table and chase the American dream. Many voted for trump because despite their best efforts of busting ass, they have still fallen behind over the last 4 years…and oh no they might watch a ball game on their 1-2 day off a week or catch their kids sports game.

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Digital "pound the pavement"...

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100%. And it works. He's right.

No, no it doesn't, unless you're trying to make random hiring managers mad and get yourself blacklisted with a company. It might work with very small businesses, but it backfires SPECTACULARLY with ATS systems at play.

False

Dude I've seen you post enough to know you're trolling. Try again.

Ag with kids said:

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Drip99 said:

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fixer said:

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Ag_of_08 said:

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Have any proof of it, or jyst towing the tech-bro mgmt line?

Funny, I know people with decades of experience in th tech sector who are highly skilled and motivated that are 1000+ applications in, some of them to companies importing people on H1b visas because they "can't find" workers.

---

Proof?

Ask anyone to name the last Fields medal winner vs the last NFL mvp.

This isn't about just " tech". It is about cultural priorities.

---

Can someone explain this lazy American work culture idealism? He seems to use the tech sector to paint a broad brush about American workers. You ever been out to the oil fields in west Texas, Alaska, dakotas? What about the doctors, nurses, mechanics, hvac, plumbing, electricians, steel, welders, farmers, ranchers etc.? I don't see a culture of lazy losers…I see millions of hard working Americans out there hustling and many working more than one job to put food on the table and chase the American dream. Many voted for trump because despite their best efforts of busting ass, they have still fallen behind over the last 4 years…and oh no they might watch a ball game on their 1-2 day off a week or catch their kids sports game.

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So bias in data sampling? So he's drawing conclusions while missing the bigger American picture. Got it