The proof of the moon landing is so extensive and iron clad that you can conduct experiments in your own backyard to prove it to yourself, just as you can to prove the earth is not flat from your backyard.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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We have tons of evidence indicating there was a coverup and people knew a hoax was going on during Covid. It's nothing like the moon landing.

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Yep. That's my point.

People claiming there is a zero chance of staged moon landing believed covid wet market theory, which had an even lower probability. They can't come to grips with that fact. It probably gives some people anxiety to tackle it, and go thru the exercise of assigning a probability to both theories. I know, it's hard for them to do. It's much easier to just label me a "troll" or marginalize me as if I believe the moon landing was staged.

InfectionAg is prime example, he/she gave us a probability of staged moon landing at 0%, but refuses to assign a probability to COVID wet market origin. Why is that?

Farmer_J said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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BlueTaze said:

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What is "obvious that I am refusing to see"? That was my question.

Are you saying it's obvious that a staged moon landing is the same unlikely probability as the earth being flat or feds demolishing twin towers?

Telling me to read a history book is worthless. I understand the cold war, and importance of the space race and it's mission to raise the US stature above Soviets. As well as the need to give hope to Americans demoralized on the heels of JFK assassination, that more likely than not, the CIA played a role in.

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The claim that we didn't land on the moon is as demonstrably false as the claim that the earth is flat, yes.

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Logic fail.

People who say it definitely happened are just as bad as the people say it definitely didn't happen.

None of us can verify one way or the other. There's some evidence that it happened, but then there's a lot of missing evidence that raises questions. Not to mention odd behavior from the astronauts afterwards. I suspect the truth is somewhere between the deniers and the official government story.

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No, it definitely happened.

Farmer_J said:

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Infection_Ag11 said:

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BlueTaze said:

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What is "obvious that I am refusing to see"? That was my question.

Are you saying it's obvious that a staged moon landing is the same unlikely probability as the earth being flat or feds demolishing twin towers?

Telling me to read a history book is worthless. I understand the cold war, and importance of the space race and it's mission to raise the US stature above Soviets. As well as the need to give hope to Americans demoralized on the heels of JFK assassination, that more likely than not, the CIA played a role in.

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The claim that we didn't land on the moon is as demonstrably false as the claim that the earth is flat, yes.

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Logic fail.

People who say it definitely happened are just as bad as the people say it definitely didn't happen.

None of us can verify one way or the other. There's some evidence that it happened, but then there's a lot of missing evidence that raises questions. Not to mention odd behavior from the astronauts afterwards. I suspect the truth is somewhere between the deniers and the official government story.

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Whatever "missing evidence" that has been fabricated by conspiracy morons is exponentially outweighed by the actual evidence we went to the moon. It's the literal opposite than the COVID coverup, where we have a ton of evidence that the government lied about the origins.

Why did everyone believe COVID came from a wet market if we had tons of evidence that was a hoax?

Why were lab leak folks called conspiracy morons in 2019-2022?

On the one hand, I am old enough to remember the technology we had in the 60's. Hard to imagine we could pull it off successfully back then.

On the other hand, Russia, China and India have supposedly orbited the moon and photographed the surface. If we faked it, they would gleefully tell the world that there are no landing modules, moon buggies, US flags, etc. on the surface liked we claimed.

Therefore, I grudgingly accept that we somehow pulled it off in an era when we had punch card computers the size of busses and chicks with slide rules and cars that got 10mpg and rusted out in 5 years.

BlueTaze said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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We have tons of evidence indicating there was a coverup and people knew a hoax was going on during Covid. It's nothing like the moon landing.

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Yep. That's my point.

People claiming there is a zero chance of staged moon landing believed covid wet market theory, which had an even lower probability. They can't come to grips with that fact. It probably gives some people anxiety to tackle it, and go thru the exercise of assigning a probability to both theories. I know, it's hard for them to do. It's much easier to just label me a "troll" or marginalize me as if I believe the moon landing was staged.

InfectionAg is prime example, he/she gave us a probability of staged moon landing at 0%, but refuses to assign a probability to COVID wet market origin. Why is that?

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Novel human pathogens can and have emerged from wet markets. There are definitive historical examples. By definition any novel virus thus has a non-zero chance of having done so.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7141584/

There is no historical justification for believing that faking the moon landing was even logistically possible, and there is definitive evidence that it was NOT faked.

BlueTaze said:

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Why did everyone believe COVID came from a wet market if we had tons of evidence that was a hoax?

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Did anybody really believe that? Nobody I know did. Of course I have no Democrat friends.

BlueTaze said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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We have tons of evidence indicating there was a coverup and people knew a hoax was going on during Covid. It's nothing like the moon landing.

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Yep. That's my point.

People claiming there is a zero chance of staged moon landing believed covid wet market theory, which had an even lower probability. They can't come to grips with that fact. It probably gives some people anxiety to tackle it, and go thru the exercise of assigning a probability to both theories. I know, it's hard for them to do. It's much easier to just label me a "troll" or marginalize me as if I believe the moon landing was staged.

InfectionAg is prime example, he/she gave us a probability of staged moon landing at 0%, but refuses to assign a probability to COVID wet market origin. Why is that?

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Your point is that there is zero evidence of a moon landing hoax being perpetrated?

Infection_Ag11 said:

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BlueTaze said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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We have tons of evidence indicating there was a coverup and people knew a hoax was going on during Covid. It's nothing like the moon landing.

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Yep. That's my point.

People claiming there is a zero chance of staged moon landing believed covid wet market theory, which had an even lower probability. They can't come to grips with that fact. It probably gives some people anxiety to tackle it, and go thru the exercise of assigning a probability to both theories. I know, it's hard for them to do. It's much easier to just label me a "troll" or marginalize me as if I believe the moon landing was staged.

InfectionAg is prime example, he/she gave us a probability of staged moon landing at 0%, but refuses to assign a probability to COVID wet market origin. Why is that?

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Novel human pathogens can and have emerged from wet markets. There are definitive historical examples. By definition any novel virus thus has a non-zero chance of having done so.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7141584/

There is no historical justification for believing that faking the moon landing was even logistically possible, and there is definitive evidence that it was NOT faked.

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So you currently believe today there is a non-zero chance that COVID came from a wet market? What is that %? Is it .03% 3% 30% 50% what is it?

By that logic, I could say governments can and have staged other events for poltical gain, therefore there is a non-zero chance the moon landing was staged.

Buck Turgidson said:

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On the one hand, I am old enough to remember the technology we had in the 60's. Hard to imagine we could pull it off successfully back ten.

On the other hand, Russia, China and India have supposedly orbited the moon and photographed the surface. If we faked it, they would gleefully tell the world that there are no landing modules, moon buggies, US flags, etc. on the surface liked we claimed.

Therefore, I grudgingly accept that we somehow pulled it off in an era when we had punch card computers the size of busses and chicks with slide rules and cars that got 10mpg and rusted out in 5 years.

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I like to compare it to crossing the Atlantic. The Vikings did it in little more than canoes just about a millenia ago. The next (known) person to do it wasn't for another 400 years, and then commercial exploration wasn't viable for another 50-70 years after that.

We are still in the canoe stage.

BlueTaze said:

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Why did everyone believe COVID came from a wet market if we had tons of evidence that was a hoax?

Why were lab leak folks called conspiracy morons in 2019-2022?

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Who is "everyone"? The lab leak was one of a number of initial theories and as more evidence came out that's what now seems like the answer as to what happened. That's how evidence works.

The answer to your second question is politics. If the dems were pushing a theory that it came from a lab republicans would have called them conspiracy morons too.

Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Your point is that there is zero evidence of a moon landing hoax being perpetrated?

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I'm not sure if you are reading my posts you quote. I said there is more evidence to disprove wet market theory than staged moon landing. InfectionAg claimed there was 0% chance of a moon landing hoax....I'm challenging him/her to accept its non-zero, like he accepts wet market theory to be.

Quote:

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So you currently believe today there is a non-zero chance that COVID came from a wet market? What is that %?

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Definitionally not zero

Quote:

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By that logic, I could say governments have staged other events for poltical gain, therefore there is a non-zero chance the moon landing was staged.

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Incorrect, because this must start from the base premise that ability to fake THIS sort of event at the time was possible. The technology to do some of the things claimed by conspiracy theorists DID NOT EXIST in 1969. Even if there were not definitive evidence we landed on the moon, and there is TONS of it as listed in this thread, it was IMPOSSIBLE to fake such an event in the manner necessary to produce what was seen in 1969.

OTOH, coronaviruses nearly identical generically to Covid HAVE emerged from Chinese wet markets before.

BlueTaze said:

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Definitely Not A Cop said:

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Your point is that there is zero evidence of a moon landing hoax being perpetrated?

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I'm not sure if you are reading my posts you quote. I said there is more evidence to disprove wet market theory than staged moon landing. InfectionAg claimed there was 0% chance of a moon landing hoax....I'm challenging him/her to accept its non-zero, like he accepts wet market theory to be.

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I have seen zero evidence of a moon landing hoax being perpetrated in eight pages of discussion, do you have some?

J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Who is "everyone"?

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Should have mentioned the time. 2020 when the word COVID first hit the press, and it's origin was speculated on, bat soup etc. The vast majority of people at that time believed it came from wet market. I'm sure not you, bc you are the super smartest person.

As time went on, many others changed opinions, then Jon Stewart mocked it, and that tipped scales for libs. Then gov emails came out and only few held on.

But all that is beside the point. People either believe it's a zero probability event today or non-zero.....just like staged moon landing or any other event.

BlueTaze said:

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J. Walter Weatherman said:

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Who is "everyone"?

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Should have mentioned the time. 2020 when the word COVID first hit the press, and it's origin was speculated on, bat soup etc. The vast majority of people at that time believed it came from wet market. I'm sure not you, bc you are the super smartest person.

As time went on, many others changed opinions, then Jon Stewart mocked it, and that tipped scales for libs. Then gov emails came out and only few held on.

But all that is beside the point. People either believe it's a zero probability event today or non-zero.....just like staged moon landing or any other event.

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So you're saying that "people" had theories about an event and then changed their mind when more evidence came out to show that theory was wrong? That's how theories work.

Again, what evidence exists (that's not easily disprovable) to show there's even a remote chance the moon landing was faked? After 40 years you'd think there'd be a lot of it.

These conspiracies also fall apart when someone has to explain how it would have actually happened. The logistics behind faking something like that are insanely unrealistic. For example, we know for a fact they took off because thousands of people watched it happen. So is the idea they just floated around in space and came back down? How did they simulate everything in Mission Control? Or were they in on it too? What about the engineers who designed and built everything? That's why there's a zero percent chance it was faked. There is no remotely realistic scenario where it would be possible to fake it once you actually drill down into the details of what that would take.

You don't get it. Your bias and inability to think objectively is clouded by your personal experience with covid vs space travel. The simple correct answer is both wet market origin and staged moon landing are non-zero probability events. We can all disagree on how small those % are for each, but it's above 0.

The more troubling part is that you refuse to asign a probability figure to wet market origin, while happily asigning 0% to staged moon landing. Not gonna beat a dead horse and ask why for a 3rd time.....I think we all know.

BlueTaze said:

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You don't get it. Your bias and inability to think objectively is clouded by your personal experience with covid vs space travel. The simple correct answer is both wet market origin and staged moon landing are non-zero probability events. We can all disagree on how small those % are for each, but it's above 0.

The more troubling part is that you refuse to asign a probability figure to wet market origin, while happily asigning 0% to staged moon landing. Not gonna beat a dead horse and ask why for a 3rd time.....I think we all know.

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Moon landing is 0.00000000001% chance of being fake. Happy now?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. New evidence or info could surface, therefore a 0% probability shouldn't be assigned to a moon landing hoax.

The COVID wet market example wasn't used to justify a fake moon landing. It was used to point out we have gone from believing covid came from bat soup, to having more evidence it was a gov hoax, than we do that the moon landing was a hoax. Unfortunately that nuanced point went over most people's head.

IF hypothetically, the Artemis mission or some new Apollo data surfaced suggesting NASA staged a moon landing, then those probabilities would change. Saying there is a 0% chance something happened rules out that possibility.

The only chance the moon landing being faked is the chance ascribed to us living in a simulation. I put that at >0%. My proof? Gas prices at the station by my house ALWAYS go down like $0.20 the day after I fill up, and always go up about $0.20 when I'm on E. I'm nearly convinced that's the computer subtly trolling me.

The Kraken said:

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Moon landing is 0.00000000001% chance of being fake. Happy now?

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Ok great, now do covid wet market origin, what's that %?

Its infectionAg, not me, who is claiming you are definatively wrong, with it being absolutely 0%.

Just because OJ lied about killing his wife doesn't mean he lied when he said he ran 11,236 yards in the NFL.

Some things, like the moon landing, are almost impossible to successfully lie about. Others, like wet markets causing covid, are easy to lie about.

Not all lies or conspiracies are the same.

BlueTaze said:

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The Kraken said:

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Moon landing is 0.00000000001% chance of being fake. Happy now?

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Ok great, now do covid wet market origin, what's that %?

Its infectionAg, not me, who is claiming you are definatively wrong, with it being absolutely 0%.

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Ask an Epidemiologist or Virologist.

I once got to speak with Alan Shepard about being on the moon. He was an eyewitness.

I guess if you think every eyewitness was "in on it", then there's no convincing you.

aTmAg said:

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Just because OJ lied about killing his wife doesn't mean he lied when he said he ran 11,236 yards in the NFL.

Some things, like the moon landing, are almost impossible to successfully lie about. Others, like wet markets causing covid, are easy to lie about.

Not all lies or conspiracies are the same.

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Agree different theories have different probabilities of being valid.

JFK assassination is one where little new hard data has surfaced proving the CIA was involved. However, just a few documentaries and recent comments from Trump and RFK, and the probabilities are totally different in people's minds today, vs 50 years ago.

I'd rank largest to smallest probability in this order:

1) CIA involved in JFK assassination
2) Staged moon landing
3) COVID wet market origin

Ranking these does not mean you believe any of them to be true. It's a fun exercise because no one here can bring themselves to admit that COVID wet market origin may be less likely than a staged moon landing. It's kind of fascinating actually. Just look at Kraken's response, "go ask an epidemiologist" lol

BlueTaze said:

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Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. New evidence or info could surface, therefore a 0% probability shouldn't be assigned to a moon landing hoax.

The COVID wet market example wasn't used to justify a fake moon landing. It was used to point out we have gone from believing covid came from bat soup, to having more evidence it was a gov hoax, than we do that the moon landing was a hoax. Unfortunately that nuanced point went over most people's head.

IF hypothetically, the Artemis mission or some new Apollo data surfaced suggesting NASA staged a moon landing, then those probabilities would change. Saying there is a 0% chance something happened rules out that possibility.

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Except there's no realistic way that a moon landing hoax could actually be accomplished. At least without something leaking in the last 40 years. Covid theories changed as more info came out. There is nothing else to be learned about the moon landings that hasn't already been studied. You're comparing apples and oranges.

I agree, I think it's a very low probability the moon landing was staged, lower than CIA assassinating JFK, but not as low as COVID originating from a wet market.

Do you disagree with that ranking, if so, how?

BlueTaze said:

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I agree, I think it's a very low probability the moon landing was staged, lower than CIA assassinating JFK, but not as low as COVID originating from a wet market.

Do you disagree with that ranking, if so, how?

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In my opinion - there's a zero percent chance the moon landing was staged just like there's a zero percent chance 9/11 was an inside job or whatever. I'd say a 1-5% chance Covid actually came from a wet market instead of a lab leak, and probably a 5-10% chance the cia had something to do with the JFK assassination. (Still strange to me that no one will release all of the info they have on that)

BlueTaze said:

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aTmAg said:

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Just because OJ lied about killing his wife doesn't mean he lied when he said he ran 11,236 yards in the NFL.

Some things, like the moon landing, are almost impossible to successfully lie about. Others, like wet markets causing covid, are easy to lie about.

Not all lies or conspiracies are the same.

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Agree different theories have different probabilities of being valid.

JFK assassination is one where little new hard data has surfaced proving the CIA was involved. However, just a few documentaries and recent comments from Trump and RFK, and the probabilities are totally different in people's minds today, vs 50 years ago.

I'd rank largest to smallest probability in this order:

1) CIA involved in JFK assassination
2) Staged moon landing
3) COVID wet market origin

Ranking these does not mean you believe any of them to be true. It's a fun exercise because no one here can bring themselves to admit that COVID wet market origin may be less likely than a staged moon landing. It's kind of fascinating actually. Just look at Kraken's response, "go ask an epidemiologist" lol

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I haven't heard any convincing data about CIA/JFK involvement. But I don't want to spend time on this thread talking about that.

I'd put the possibility of any of the 3 you mentioned to be .0000001% and my order would be:

1) COVID wet market (lots of diseases come out of China)
.
.
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2) CIA involved in JDFK assassination
3) Staged moon landing

That's pretty interesting, probably similar to infectionAg's take- ie it's totally impossible that anything could ever surface that disproves actual moon landings.

I don't even think Matt Walsh went that far. I believe he said he was open to the possibility of new data that could change his mind when he went on Rogan. In fact, just a simple convo on JRE seemed to change his own calculation a tiny bit.

BlueTaze said:

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I agree, I think it's a very low probability the moon landing was staged, lower than CIA assassinating JFK, but not as low as COVID originating from a wet market.

Do you disagree with that ranking, if so, how?

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I'm not sure how you can assign the "fake" moon landing a higher percentage that the wet market origin for COVID. There is zero debate among professional scientists and historians on the validity of the Apollo program, while there is still ongoing debate on the origins of COVID 19.

We landed on moon. We could have continued it but there was little reason outside of science projects.

I'm simplifying it, but each component of the moon trips and landings are verifiable with numerous examples. We know that we can get astronauts in space. It's only a matter of fuel and math to get them to orbit the moon. The lander was also used on earth which would be more difficult to control due to more gravity. Then reverse the whole process to some extent.

Honesty it is amazing that the moon mission astronauts all survived without deadly accidents.

Approx 30,000 wet markets across China, 1 virus lab at epicenter of breakout. Emails showing officials knowingly lied about wet market to gaslight.

I get people's strong feelings on moon landing, but I think it's pretty well established Oswald had more connection with CIA than COVID had with any wet market.

Quote:

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There is zero debate among professional scientists and historians

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Lots of great arguements for moon landing. "Expert concensus" isn't one of them. Unless you believe climate change is a threat, bc all the climate scientists say so? How about all the medical experts and global authorities on COVID?