Here's a hint. Any time science and politics are involved together, rest assured it's a grift/hoax. Been going on for years.. lol

OPEN YOUR EYES

Yup. They folded up shop last week. Twitter is no more and everyone is on Truth social. SpaceX took a hiatus in solidarity with Al Gore for climate's sake. And Elon was last spotted this morning panhandling on the southeast corner of Westheimer and the Beltway.

Starlink is raising its price for RVs to $150/mo, so I paused my account. I was getting terrible speeds in Brazoria County anyway.

That's all I have to say about Tesla.

fka ftc said:

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aggievaulter07 said:

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Haven't heard the "My Kindergarten Teacher's predicted timeline about the oceans flooding Texas didn't come to fruition on time, so it must all be hogwash" excuse before. Congrats on at least being original.

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I mean, the data on my personal weather station showed winds from the south and a high near 90 yesterday with some clouds.

Then the climate changed and it got dark outside and cooled off a bit. Then more clouds came during the darkness and produced wet stuff from the skies.

By this morning it was much cooler, less windy and beautiful blue skies.

I can only surmise that yesterday more people were driving ICE vehicles and then something happened overnight and today everyone must be driving EVs.

So I get it. Its all about the science, no?

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lol at your snapshot localized anecdotal observations and extrapolating those as if they apply every day, and every where in the world. With that sort of mentality, I hope you don't use that same logic to make long-term, high level business or investment decisions.

Nobody is going to change anybody's minds on climate change, and frankly I don't think most of us care enough about conversion to keep going on about it, especially in THIS thread, so I'm pretty much just back to LOLing at the OP who thinks "Tesla is finished" while they are clearly blowing all of the competition away, and OP is missing out on one of the few once-in-a-lifetime type investment opportunities.

WHOOP!'91 said:

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Starlink is raising its price for RVs to $150/mo, so I paused my account. I was getting terrible speeds in Brazoria County anyway.

That's all I have to say about Tesla.

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Starlink is a SpaceX product, not a Tesla product...

Just saw this on my newsfeed--interesting article. No doubt written under sponsorship by one of the big established automakers. Here is her byline:

Quote:

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Nora Naughton is a senior reporter covering the automotive industry for Insider.

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I'm interested to get this thread's opinions, yea or nay on the contents of the article. It has the feel of a propaganda/hit piece, so I don't take it too seriously. The closing statement is telling:

Quote:

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The calm, collected Musk helped stem the yearlong collapse of Tesla's stock, but the company's existential problems remain. In almost every area where Tesla has carved out an edge in the past 20 years vehicle design, tech, sales strategy the startup is getting beat. Musk's legacy competitors are right at his heels.

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https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-ruined-tesla-technology-ford-gm-car-companies-evs-2023-2?amp

Well we can start with this quote from the article right here:

Quote:

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Mercedes lapping Tesla on Level 3 autonomy was followed swiflty by another setback: Tesla recalled more than 362,000 of its vehicles over concerns the latest Full Self-Driving (FSD) software could increase the risk of crashes.

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Every word in that paragraph is disingenuous at best, and willfully dishonest at worst.

Especially if you know anything about the Mercedes "Level 3 Autonomy", and if you know anything about the Software Update that they are calling a "recall".

Tesla is years ahead of GM and Ford in many areas. Charging stations network. Battery tech. Fully self driving. Production efficiency and readiness. Lower production costs. High brand recognition for the specific product (like Apple for phones). Innovation for when others think they are catching up. Demand for workers, and demand to be in office. Other products like power storage and solar production for roofs.

There really isn't a comparison.

Regarding self-driving tech... that is not limited whatsoever by technology at this point. Well, not directly.

Its limited by lawyers and liability laws. Either the tech / sw has to get to the point where they are happy, or laws are passed where automakers can release the product with a comfortable pucker of the exit valve.

Same things that limit robots, drone deliveries, etc.

The two Tesla owners I know won't be buying Tesla as their next car. They both hate Elon Musk, and I guess the novelty of a Tesla cars has worn off and they plan to replace with EVs from a different manufacturer.

Brand loyalty is rare in the car market.

As many libs that think they will sink Musk since he bought Twitter, there will be that many and more that will buy because he did buy Twitter.

Not only that, Tesla is a global company that isn't reliant on a few far left libs and their pocketbooks.

Quote:

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The two Tesla owners I know won't be buying Tesla as their next car. They both hate Elon Musk

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They didn't hate him enough to buy two teslas once…I'm guessing they hate his stance on free speech and preferred Twitter be heavily censored in one direction.

fka ftc said:

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Regarding self-driving tech... that is not limited whatsoever by technology at this point. Well, not directly.

Its limited by lawyers and liability laws. Either the tech / sw has to get to the point where they are happy, or laws are passed where automakers can release the product with a comfortable pucker of the exit valve.

Same things that limit robots, drone deliveries, etc.

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The tech is mostly poof of concept level not production level and that is a big gap when consumer safety is involved. There is way more involved than just lawyers.

XpressAg09 said:

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Quote:

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The two Tesla owners I know won't be buying Tesla as their next car. They both hate Elon Musk

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They didn't hate him enough to buy two teslas once…I'm guessing they hate his stance on free speech and preferred Twitter be heavily censored in one direction.

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Man, we're quick to think we know everything about someone based on an amount of information that basically rounds to zero.

AustinScubaAg said:

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fka ftc said:

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Regarding self-driving tech... that is not limited whatsoever by technology at this point. Well, not directly.

Its limited by lawyers and liability laws. Either the tech / sw has to get to the point where they are happy, or laws are passed where automakers can release the product with a comfortable pucker of the exit valve.

Same things that limit robots, drone deliveries, etc.

---

The tech is mostly poof of concept level not production level and that is a big gap when consumer safety is involved. There is way more involved than just lawyers.

---

They have been doing self driving proof of concept for 20 years.

What technological advances remain?

Consumer safety is a result of lawyers. Its not about some altruistic endeavour to save human lives, its about money.

But if safety makes it feel nicer, then safety it is.

fka ftc said:

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AustinScubaAg said:

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fka ftc said:

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Regarding self-driving tech... that is not limited whatsoever by technology at this point. Well, not directly.

Its limited by lawyers and liability laws. Either the tech / sw has to get to the point where they are happy, or laws are passed where automakers can release the product with a comfortable pucker of the exit valve.

Same things that limit robots, drone deliveries, etc.

---

The tech is mostly poof of concept level not production level and that is a big gap when consumer safety is involved. There is way more involved than just lawyers.

---

They have been doing self driving proof of concept for 20 years.

What technological advances remain?

Consumer safety is a result of lawyers. Its not about some altruistic endeavour to save human lives, its about money.

But if safety makes it feel nicer, then safety it is.

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Obvously you are not working on the tech or you would not make this statement.

AustinScubaAg said:

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fka ftc said:

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They have been doing self driving proof of concept for 20 years.

What technological advances remain?

Consumer safety is a result of lawyers. Its not about some altruistic endeavour to save human lives, its about money.

But if safety makes it feel nicer, then safety it is.

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Obvously you are not working on the tech or you would not make this statement.

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Then let me help you with the obvious timeline. Fully self-driving cars are NOT happening in the next decade, likely never happen. Airplanes can fly themselves into and out of many airports. Yet even unmanned drones have a guy ready to grab the joystick.

Cars are infinitely more dangerous than airplanes. Yet magically we are going to accept loss of life and property damage from a self-driving vehicle?

Right now if you plow over a group of people you might be criminally responsible but will almost certainly have civil liability in an accident cause by your vehicle. Do you and your insurance company get a pass if it was in self-driving mode? Oh, the car manufacturer is responsible? Will they then outsource the software to add in another layer of legal shielding?

Self-driving is literally going nowhere fast.

So I am pretty comfortable making the intelligent, informed and most like correct assessment on the matter.

Cool idea, not happening soon. Cause the liability issues is not even being worked on right now - at least not at a level where we see this as anything other than a novelty and one that requires constant human oversight in order to operate independently from constant human oversight.

fka ftc said:

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Regarding self-driving tech... that is not limited whatsoever by technology at this point. Well, not directly.

Its limited by lawyers and liability laws. Either the tech / sw has to get to the point where they are happy, or laws are passed where automakers can release the product with a comfortable pucker of the exit valve.

Same things that limit robots, drone deliveries, etc.

---

I'm heavily involved in the UAS and autonomy industry. The BIGGEST challenge will be the regulators. The FAA is VERY risk averse...so we'll have to do lots of work to ensure that the technology is mature before it'll happen...

Although, there is limited drone delivery going on right no in the US - hell, BCS is one of the first places it's occurring. Amazon Prime...

1000th reply.

Ag with kids said:

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fka ftc said:

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Regarding self-driving tech... that is not limited whatsoever by technology at this point. Well, not directly.

Its limited by lawyers and liability laws. Either the tech / sw has to get to the point where they are happy, or laws are passed where automakers can release the product with a comfortable pucker of the exit valve.

Same things that limit robots, drone deliveries, etc.

---

I'm heavily involved in the UAS and autonomy industry. The BIGGEST challenge will be the regulators. The FAA is VERY risk averse...so we'll have to do lots of work to ensure that the technology is mature before it'll happen...

Although, there is limited drone delivery going on right no in the US - hell, BCS is one of the first places it's occurring. Amazon Prime...

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Drone delivery in a very limited area, with limitations on size of drone and payload, and I would think still requires a human constantly monitoring.

And Amazon and its lawyers have decided to accept some risk to advance the technology. Tesla has release limited self-driving functionality based on similar calculus.

Regulators are catnip to lawyers on all sides. Think lobbyists, rule writers, and hell even many of the folks who lead these agencies and certainly a fair amount of those who would vote on any bills / laws... lawyers. Regulations = Laws = Legal Process = Lawyers

I get their are tons of nuances and moving parts. But if you solved every other problem overnight, the legal problem remains no where close to being sorted out.

Maybe they surprise us and sort it all out. But my experience and history indicates otherwise.

fka ftc said:

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Ag with kids said:

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fka ftc said:

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Regarding self-driving tech... that is not limited whatsoever by technology at this point. Well, not directly.

Its limited by lawyers and liability laws. Either the tech / sw has to get to the point where they are happy, or laws are passed where automakers can release the product with a comfortable pucker of the exit valve.

Same things that limit robots, drone deliveries, etc.

---

I'm heavily involved in the UAS and autonomy industry. The BIGGEST challenge will be the regulators. The FAA is VERY risk averse...so we'll have to do lots of work to ensure that the technology is mature before it'll happen...

Although, there is limited drone delivery going on right no in the US - hell, BCS is one of the first places it's occurring. Amazon Prime...

---

Drone delivery in a very limited area, with limitations on size of drone and payload, and I would think still requires a human constantly monitoring.

And Amazon and its lawyers have decided to accept some risk to advance the technology. Tesla has release limited self-driving functionality based on similar calculus.

Regulators are catnip to lawyers on all sides. Think lobbyists, rule writers, and hell even many of the folks who lead these agencies and certainly a fair amount of those who would vote on any bills / laws... lawyers. Regulations = Laws = Legal Process = Lawyers

I get their are tons of nuances and moving parts. But if you solved every other problem overnight, the legal problem remains no where close to being sorted out.

Maybe they surprise us and sort it all out. But my experience and history indicates otherwise.

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Yeah. From what I understand, they're on Autonomy Level 3 right now.



And MANY people in the FAA are NOT lawyers...I've dealt with many of them up to quite high levels. They're engineers. And they're VERY risk averse. They don't want anything to happen that could come back to bite them.

I'm working on a project that should hopefully be at Level 5 when we're done.

Ag with kids said:

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Yeah. From what I understand, they're on Autonomy Level 3 right now.



And MANY people in the FAA are NOT lawyers...I've dealt with many of them up to quite high levels. They're engineers. And they're VERY risk averse. They don't want anything to happen that could come back to bite them.

I'm working on a project that should hopefully be at Level 5 when we're done.

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I would agree that multiple drone programs reaching level 5 is not just feasible, but will happen and will signal the possibility of cars reaching that. But I dont see a workable solution at this point to the legal liability question.

If you are riding it the backseat of your Tesla and it runs over and leaves my kid an invalid, you can bet its going to be more than Tesla that end of the lawsuit.

Its not that I ultimately don't want to see it. I think its awesome and would welcome it, Just do not see if for passenger vehicles.

Disney's Wedway is much more viable than autonomous passenger cars.

fka ftc said:

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Ag with kids said:

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Yeah. From what I understand, they're on Autonomy Level 3 right now.



And MANY people in the FAA are NOT lawyers...I've dealt with many of them up to quite high levels. They're engineers. And they're VERY risk averse. They don't want anything to happen that could come back to bite them.

I'm working on a project that should hopefully be at Level 5 when we're done.

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I would agree that multiple drone programs reaching level 5 is not just feasible, but will happen and will signal the possibility of cars reaching that. But I dont see a workable solution at this point to the legal liability question.

If you are riding it the backseat of your Tesla and it runs over and leaves my kid an invalid, you can bet its going to be more than Tesla that end of the lawsuit.

Its not that I ultimately don't want to see it. I think its awesome and would welcome it, Just do not see if for passenger vehicles.

Disney's Wedway is much more viable than autonomous passenger cars.

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I disagree that it's not feasible. Now, I'm saying tomorrow. But, in the future.

Just like unmanned (**** you ASTM I will NOT use uncrewed) "Uber" air taxis will be coming. It's going to take a lot of work to convince the FAA though. And that's AFTER the tech has been developed better.

Cars are a different thing because of the congestion of vehicles. It's not like aircraft where an avoidance maneuver is only turn left or right....

This seems relevant to the discussion.

bmks270 said:

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The two Tesla owners I know won't be buying Tesla as their next car. They both hate Elon Musk, and I guess the novelty of a Tesla cars has worn off and they plan to replace with EVs from a different manufacturer.

Brand loyalty is rare in the car market.

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Every Tesla owner I know absolutely loves their car and would never go back to ICE. Let alone a different EV. Some complained a couple years ago they wanted more super chargers but not now. Tesla has THE most brand loyalty and it is extremely strong. Even the ridiculously biased media can't deny the brand loyalty and market leadership of Tesla. The Tesla owners I know also put their money where their mouth is and accumulate as much stock as they can due to the fact that they believe in the product and the future of the company. There is no novelty. So congratulations you must have found the .1% that have owned a Tesla and didn't enjoy the experience. Save yourself some time listening to me or others regarding Tesla - go test drive a Tesla model 3 performance and you will get it. You may love or hate Elon but there is no denying the car itself.

Edit: Also note that most of the Tesla owners I know did not purchase one because of the potential green factor as a way to "save" the earth. They bought one primarily due to the superior driving experience and performance of the vehicle itself. Number 2, 3 and 4 factors are zero maintenance, the time and money saved from having to go to gas stations and the beating of wasting half your Saturday morning every third month to go get an oil change. The zero emissions and renewable energy factors are side bonuses.

THIS

EDIT: Also, any DFW Ags are welcome to test drive my Long Range Model 3 with the Performance Boost and FSD Beta. Not quite as fast as the Performance Model, but dang close.

0-60 in 3.7

I own a MY and have FSD. Its not there yet, I paid 8k for it and would do the same but not at the 15K level.


I have about 10 coworkers with Teslas and 1 sold it to get a Rivian. The other 9 loves it and I bet would buy another.

When my daughter drives in a few yrs, I will be getting a Model 3 for her. I have a Cyber on order and will get it no matter what.

I have been an owner of two BMWs. Driven in many Mercedes/lexus/infinity and it does not compare in anyway to Tesla's drive experience or Tech. I will say if fit/finish/interior looks matter the most, then tesla is not for you.

But to say tesla's owners are not loyal is incorrect.

https://www.torquenews.com/1084/top-10-car-brands-customer-loyalty-subaru-drops-again

https://www.visualcapitalist.com/brand-loyalty-is-declining-for-most-luxury-automakers/

In past year 62% of Model 3 buyers already had a tesla. Now that is brand loyalty

Premium said:

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Tesla is years ahead of GM and Ford in many areas. Charging stations network. Battery tech. Fully self driving. Production efficiency and readiness. Lower production costs. High brand recognition for the specific product (like Apple for phones). Innovation for when others think they are catching up. Demand for workers, and demand to be in office. Other products like power storage and solar production for roofs.

There really isn't a comparison.

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I don't even think Tesla makes the top 20 in the home solar market. Companies like Enphase, Sunrun, Sunpower, Jinko, First Solar, are just a few off the top of my head that dwarf Tesla.

Tesla was 4th last year in the solar install market

aggievaulter07 said:

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WHOOP!'91 said:

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Starlink is raising its price for RVs to $150/mo, so I paused my account. I was getting terrible speeds in Brazoria County anyway.

That's all I have to say about Tesla.

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Starlink is a SpaceX product, not a Tesla product...

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This has to be the best meme.

Teslag said:

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Tesla was 4th last year in the solar install market

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FALSE! Didn't you see? IslanderAg04 just told you that at lest 5 other companies "dwarf" Tesla!

aggievaulter07 said:

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Teslag said:

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Tesla was 4th last year in the solar install market

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FALSE! Didn't you see? IslanderAg04 just told you that at lest 5 other companies "dwarf" Tesla!

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That's only residential installation, how many of these other companies also have massive battery storage facilities?

https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2022/03/29/tesla-drops-from-top-three-residential-solar-installer-ranking/

The initial claim was that they weren't top 20 in home solar, so top 4 in home solar would disprove that claim.


That said, solar is way, way down the list of why Tesla is valued more than GM and Ford. Top reasons are that GM/Ford volumes are not growing nearly as rapidly as Tesla and the margins on their vehicles, especially electric vehicles, cannot touch what Tesla does currently and as Ford's CEO admitted, they cannot catch Tesla on cost.